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Post by ottaone on Mar 19, 2019 21:09:27 GMT -5
I may decide that I'm having a mid-life crisis and am considering my "dream" speakers, speakers that got back me back on the AV road in 2002 (the non-D version at that time). CAM: B&W 802D
So what would you use to drive these, Emo or other brands? Room would be the family room and no physical room correction can be done.
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Post by creimes on Mar 19, 2019 21:28:49 GMT -5
Why bother spending a boatload of money on speakers in a highly reflective room
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Post by garbulky on Mar 19, 2019 21:30:04 GMT -5
XPA-1 gen 2. Done. If you really want to spend more. 2 Pairs of XPA-1 gen 2. I simply haven't heard a better amp.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 19, 2019 21:33:27 GMT -5
@cremes is right about your room. Nice looking. But you can only get so far with speakers if the room is not treated. Really good speakers bring out minute details and impressive room dimensions in the recording. But the room will obscure that to a serious amount.
There are these (expensive) art panels. Where they print out pictrues so it looks like it's art hanging on the wall. Except they are room treatments. I apologise if you've heard this before.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on Mar 19, 2019 23:33:21 GMT -5
As kindly as I can put this, the amp won’t make much of a difference if you don’t find a way to incorporate at least some acoustic treatments. Good luck and have fun.
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Post by stads77 on Mar 20, 2019 6:19:45 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 20, 2019 7:43:37 GMT -5
I may decide that I'm having a mid-life crisis and am considering my "dream" speakers, speakers that got back me back on the AV road in 2002 (the non-D version at that time). CAM: B&W 802D
So what would you use to drive these, Emo or other brands? Room would be the family room and no physical room correction can be done. Those are sweet! One of my favorite loudspeakers for sure. I’m a Sunfire fan for amplification, but I’m sure any of the Emo. Amps delivering 200 watts per channel @8ohm would work just fine. Bill
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Post by simpleman68 on Mar 20, 2019 10:03:21 GMT -5
It's really hard to say what kind of amp as it will depend a lot on what type of sound you are looking for. Some questions that would help:
1. What kinds of music do you listen to? 2. What sound do you prefer; tube or SS amps?
3. Budget? 4. How loud do you listen on average? 5. CD, vinyl, streaming? 6. What preamp are/will you be using?
Lots of variables and a lot of great amps out there but most will hinge upon your preferences.
Another critical item in addition to the above is what amp will pair well with the B&Ws. I've heard very well designed amps that sounded harsh or too forward on great speakers, or had muddy bass, and vice versa. Combo is very important.
Scott
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
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Post by KeithL on Mar 20, 2019 11:07:04 GMT -5
I would seriously suggest that compromises be considered.
For example, I fully agree that a good speaker is going to sound much better than a not-so-good speaker, even in a really bad room. HOWEVER, even the world's best speaker won't sound very good at all in a room with all tiled or hardwood floors and paneled or glass walls. In that case, the addition of a few strategically placed throw rugs is going to make a major difference. (If a really great speaker isn't going to sound any better than a $50 pair of headphones in a lousy room then you're probably better off with the headphones.)
There is a lot of truth to what stads77 says, but there are limits...... A $500 speaker in a really good room will sound better than the world's best speaker in a tiled locker room....... (So purchasing the worlds best speaker would be a bit of a waste if that's where you're going to put it.)
The thing is that you need to plan strategically... If a 4 x 6 foot throw rug in just the right spot is going to make a bigger improvement than spending an extra $5k on the speakers, then you really need to consider it... (Even if it means putting down the throw rug when you're going to listen to music - and rolling it up when the kids come in to finger paint on the floor.)
Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 20, 2019 11:44:33 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments. I bet they sound great! It doesn't take a lot to make a difference. I noticed a significant improvement with just one room panel on the wall behind me at heiad height. But it does take a lot to make a lot of difference. Imo anything is better than nothing. Don't need to rip out the hardwood. Room treatments don't have to be ugly. But it does take effort and $$money$$ to make it not ugly. The default room treatments are ugly, no getting around that. But this looks pretty nice imo.
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Post by creimes on Mar 20, 2019 12:40:06 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments. While yes they may sound better, I just wonder why so many spend meg dollars on equipment and speakers and use them in a room with no absorption, from personal experience it makes a huge difference in hearing what your speakers actually sound like, and yes many times it is hard to do such a thing, I just like to see people get the most for their money. I spent a measly $150 dollars on making my own panels that has a much much higher value, I only run Chane A5rx-c towers and it makes a very positive improvement for even those speakers, something like those B&W speakers would be even better I would have to assume. Is my room the greatest room ever, I doubt it but the 8 panels I have make it much more enjoyable for sure.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
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Post by KeithL on Mar 20, 2019 13:25:07 GMT -5
Those would be my thoughts.... It also makes me wonder how many people who insist that "B&W speakers are a little bit bright" are using theirs in a room with little or no absorption.... To me, it seems like it can't be all that difficult to put a nice thick attractive throw rug on the floor in the front of your room, or hang a couple of cool tapestries on the side walls at the first bounce points. (The rug should go on the floor, at the front of the room, in front of the speakers, and between them and your listening position - at the first bounce point on the floor.)
Rugs and tapestries may not be quite as effective as professional room treatments - but they will still make a huge improvement compared to nothing at all or shiny bare floors and walls.
(And, if your family or wife really have a thing against room treatments to make the room sound better, tell them that you just like the way the rug and tapestries look. ) Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments. While yes they may sound better, I just wonder why so many spend meg dollars on equipment and speakers and use them in a room with no absorption, from personal experience it makes a huge difference in hearing what your speakers actually sound like, and yes many times it is hard to do such a thing, I just like to see people get the most for their money. I spent a measly $150 dollars on making my own panels that has a much much higher value, I only run Chane A5rx-c towers and it makes a very positive improvement for even those speakers, something like those B&W speakers would be even better I would have to assume. Is my room the greatest room ever, I doubt it but the 8 panels I have make it much more enjoyable for sure.
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Post by simpleman68 on Mar 20, 2019 14:21:24 GMT -5
Wow, you guys are funny. What exactly is the amount of “ treatment” needed to justify his purchase? Does he need to rip out the hardwood, put up an ugly drape over the window and acoustic tile the ceiling?! Of course room treatments are nice for those that want to do it and find significant improvement, but... if this is the space you are using, then you may not get the most out of your Bowers 802’s, but I have no doubt they would sound great compared to any other speaker with the same reflective surfaces. If you ever wanted to try acoustic treatments down the road, then do that too. My friend has his driven by Mac tube amps and they sound sublime in a room with very little sound absorption or treatments. While yes they may sound better, I just wonder why so many spend meg dollars on equipment and speakers and use them in a room with no absorption... We all take the journey in different ways. Many get the best equipment they can get and then learn about acoustic treatments. Others have a spouse that won't allow them to do much if anything at all.
I've had cheap, mid-grade, and higher end speakers in my room which is similar to the one in the OPs post. (except I do have 20' ceilings and a large/open floor plan) I'll tell you there's a huge difference in sound quality between them.
Unless your room is a perfect square with low ceilings, hard floors etc, you will most certainly benefit from better gear. Then you can try out some room treatments along the way to take advantage of the better equipment.
It's easy to become judgemental with others that may just be where you were 10 or 15 years ago. I can look back at some insanely misinformed ideas I had but that's just where I was at the time. Scott
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Post by creimes on Mar 20, 2019 14:36:04 GMT -5
While yes they may sound better, I just wonder why so many spend meg dollars on equipment and speakers and use them in a room with no absorption... We all take the journey in different ways. Many get the best equipment they can get and then learn about acoustic treatments. Others have a spouse that won't allow them to do much if anything at all. I've had cheap, mid-grade, and higher end speakers in my room which is similar to the one in the OPs post. (except I do have 20' ceilings and a large/open floor plan) I'll tell you there's a huge difference in sound quality between them. Unless your room is a perfect square with low ceilings, hard floors etc, you will most certainly benefit from better gear. Then you can try out some room treatments along the way to take advantage of the better equipment. It's easy to become judgemental with others that may just be where you were 10 or 15 years ago. I can look back at some insanely misinformed ideas I had but that's just where I was at the time. Scott
From most of the photos I see of all this uber expensive gear I get where you are coming from, doesn't seem like many think of the room interactions with the speakers, I also have no issue with people buying whatever they want lol, sort of reminds me of the guy who spends $50,000 on a huge camper trailer and parks it in his driveway year round because he won't spend the few hundred dollars to park it somewhere in the off season, so his neighbors have a nice view of a 40ft camper out their front window year round haha, not exactly the same situation of course but where I live if you want to purchase a home in the "newer" more expensive developments this is what you will get. I hope not to come off judgemental as that's not my goal, I know very little when it comes to much of this hobby, I just like to share my good and bad experiences I have come across so far these past years diving deeper into my system and setup. Chad
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Post by simpleman68 on Mar 20, 2019 15:05:13 GMT -5
We all take the journey in different ways. Many get the best equipment they can get and then learn about acoustic treatments. Others have a spouse that won't allow them to do much if anything at all. I've had cheap, mid-grade, and higher end speakers in my room which is similar to the one in the OPs post. (except I do have 20' ceilings and a large/open floor plan) I'll tell you there's a huge difference in sound quality between them. Unless your room is a perfect square with low ceilings, hard floors etc, you will most certainly benefit from better gear. Then you can try out some room treatments along the way to take advantage of the better equipment. It's easy to become judgemental with others that may just be where you were 10 or 15 years ago. I can look back at some insanely misinformed ideas I had but that's just where I was at the time. Scott
From most of the photos I see of all this uber expensive gear I get where you are coming from, doesn't seem like many think of the room interactions with the speakers, I also have no issue with people buying whatever they want lol, sort of reminds me of the guy who spends $50,000 on a huge camper trailer and parks it in his driveway year round because he won't spend the few hundred dollars to park it somewhere in the off season, so his neighbors have a nice view of a 40ft camper out their front window year round haha, not exactly the same situation of course but where I live if you want to purchase a home in the "newer" more expensive developments this is what you will get. I hope not to come off judgemental as that's not my goal, I know very little when it comes to much of this hobby, I just like to share my good and bad experiences I have come across so far these past years diving deeper into my system and setup. Chad Hehe, I've seen guys that buy cars that are worth more than the house they are parking it at.
The joke is, "you can sleep in your car but you can't drive your house" Scott
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Post by ottaone on Mar 20, 2019 19:58:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the varied feedback so far.
I do close the blinds and curtains when watching and listening except when I want to enjoy music with the sun shining through. Room is about 18' (width) x 19.5' (ceiling), x 40' (opens to breakfast nook and kitchen). MDW will be replacing picture frames with glass frames on wall opposite the fireplace. Hopefully, she'll go with something AV friendly.
I sent a note to the seller asking about the provenance of these units so we'll see.
Music is eclectic but not hard rock/metal. Otherwise, I'll listen to anything but do prefer soft jazz (guitar) or with vocals.
Lastly, best 802 set up that I've heard is with Bryston electronics. I don't know if there's any dealer in my smallish city with Mac and B&W combo.
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Post by creimes on Mar 20, 2019 21:45:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the varied feedback so far. I do close the blinds and curtains when watching and listening except when I want to enjoy music with the sun shining through. Room is about 18' (width) x 19.5' (ceiling), x 40' (opens to breakfast nook and kitchen). MDW will be replacing picture frames with glass frames on wall opposite the fireplace. Hopefully, she'll go with something AV friendly. I sent a note to the seller asking about the provenance of these units so we'll see. Music is eclectic but not hard rock/metal. Otherwise, I'll listen to anything but do prefer soft jazz (guitar) or with vocals. Lastly, best 802 set up that I've heard is with Bryston electronics. I don't know if there's any dealer in my smallish city with Mac and B&W combo. Have you considered Anthem at all ? there may be an Anthem dealer in your parts, maybe they would let you demo an amp once or if you purchase the speakers. Chad
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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 21, 2019 3:15:13 GMT -5
Love the 802D, almost bought a pair last summer, I agree with garbulky that the XPA-1 G2 would be a great choice.
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Post by boomzilla on Mar 22, 2019 19:35:28 GMT -5
What amp for ANY B&W speaker? How about a pair of Dynaco Mk. IIIs? Or if you want to buy new, how about a Prima-Luna or a Van-Alstine?
Put anything except bright tubes in any of these and your B&Ws will sound like music.
Just my two-cents...
Boomzilla
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Post by jackfish on Mar 22, 2019 22:51:23 GMT -5
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