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Post by geeqner on Apr 30, 2019 12:40:38 GMT -5
Planning to Upgrade / Replace my current Pre-Amp and looking for recommendations for a few good alternatives. Lately have been looking at Emotiva XSP-1 X-Series Differential Reference Pre-Amp, but also want to explore other good alternatives so that when I save-up the scratch, I can snap one up (or maybe better yet - AUDITION a few good possibilities) with confidence. WANTS/NEEDS - AS MANY OF THESE AS POSSIBLE:- Dead quiet when there's NO Music (low-noise / well-shielded/isolated circuitry and internal wiring)
- Dedicated Line-Level Output(s) to drive a single Subwoofer (or good method to add circuitry for this) [Adjustable freq and Q would be nice]
- At least (2) Balanced Inputs - for possible future connection to higher-end DAC / CD
- At least (2) Balanced Outputs - to feed my XPS-2
- Good Phono Stage (or ability to add a dedicated Phono Board?) would be nice
- Function via Included or optional Remote would be nice
- Tone and Balance Controls would also be nice (I'm not THAT big of a "purist snob" - I think there MAY be times when I might want these)
CURRENT UNIT - Using an NAD 4120PE Receiver with Power Amp section disconnected. Seems to work pretty good, but it's probably being affected by old age. Also see this link to a different, related post: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/989565/threadBUDGET = under $2,000 US (New or Used if decent used examples can be found) On Chicago area CL - somebody has a Pass Labs X0.2 in the "3-Box" solution for around $3K - seems nice, but a little too rich for my blood and I don't have the funding available yet. (Maybe "Simpleman" might want to look 'em up to MATCH his Monoblocks...)
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Post by garbulky on Apr 30, 2019 12:51:19 GMT -5
What's your current preamp? BY XPS2 do you mean an XPA-2 or an XPS-1 (stereo preamp) or an XSP-1 (phono preamp)? The best standalone preamp I've heard is the Audio GD HE-1. However, it doesn't have tone controls. I'm not sure if it has a phono stage or a line level output (though it does have a single ended variable volume RCA output). It's not a 100% transparent (I've not encoutnered any standalone units that are) but it sounds great for stereo sound. For the features you are looking for an XSP-1 would probably be nice.
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Post by geeqner on Apr 30, 2019 15:19:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the initial ideas, Gar! - I have edited my original post again, in order to provide more details and clarification for "mulling-over" purposes.
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 30, 2019 15:32:46 GMT -5
The XSP-1 makes it hard to compare to others. With its full balanced and differential topology straight away, you have to pay considerably usually to match it, let alone beat it. Also the XSP-1 is very well equipped. The Gen 2 especially does allot of things quite nicely. I know you can find alternates out there, but usually with less facilities in it. Don't know how important that is to you. Ray Dennison did a super job on this Preamplifier. I am not waving the Emotiva Banner, but stating it is one of Analog Preamplifier's real good ones out there. If circumstances were different, I would have an XSP-1 and be very happy. Gen 2 of course. Just my dollar fifty. Yeah 2 cents doesn't go very far these days.
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Post by brubacca on Apr 30, 2019 18:29:23 GMT -5
In my opinion you should worry less about topology (XLR, Dual Differential) and more about sound. I don't know that under $2k you'll find a lot of dual differential pre-amps to listen to. Decide on the features you truly require and listen to anything that sounds good under $2k. The list is actually quite short.
Also you'll need to worry about synergy with your Emotiva Amps.
Good Luck, I'll not make a suggestion as I never found a good pre-amp match for the Emotiva Amps I owned, actually I should say that matched my listening preferences.
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Post by mercury on Apr 30, 2019 20:08:17 GMT -5
If you can get the XSP-1 Gen1 or Gen2, they are both great preamps.
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 30, 2019 21:34:48 GMT -5
Hi geeqner - If your feature needs dominate the decision, I think your only real choices are the Emotiva XSP-1 or maybe the Parasound HALO JC2-DC. That said, I must agree with brubacca - The most full-featured preamp in the world is junk if it doesn't sound REALLY good. Adding features externally to the preamp is NOT cheap (especially if you want to maintain sound quality) - my JL Audio CR-1 crossover cost more than my preamp - but it does its job without messing up the sound. I fully agree with garbulky that the Audio-GD HE-1 preamp is a big step ahead (in sound quality) over other preamps I've heard lately. But other preamps that have good reputations and are readily available used include: Prima-Luna tube preamps Jolida tube preamps Audio Research tube preamps McIntosh preamps Audio by Van Alstine hybrid preamps Bryston preamps Threshold preamps Vacuum-Tube Audio preamps Mark Levinson preamps and many others... All that said, the best single advice tidbit I can offer is "try it before you buy it." Happy Shopping! Boom
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Post by jackfish on Apr 30, 2019 23:15:42 GMT -5
I would like to get a Classé CP-800 D/A preamplifier into my system. Maybe someday. A pair of Classé CA-M600s would round it out nicely; even used though all of it is too rich for me. Good luck finding your preamp!
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Post by garbulky on May 1, 2019 1:52:21 GMT -5
If they took a DC-1 and made it an analog balanced standalone preamp using the stregnths of its unbalanced analog input as a guide, that would be an ideal product for me. It would go great with a PA-1 stack.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 1, 2019 10:58:56 GMT -5
If they took a DC-1 and made it an analog balanced standalone preamp using the stregnths of its unbalanced analog input as a guide, that would be an ideal product for me. It would go great with a PA-1 stack. That's why they made the SP-1.
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Post by garbulky on May 1, 2019 11:39:45 GMT -5
If they took a DC-1 and made it an analog balanced standalone preamp using the stregnths of its unbalanced analog input as a guide, that would be an ideal product for me. It would go great with a PA-1 stack. That's why they made the SP-1. One with a variable balanced volume control and inputs and outputs.
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Post by geeqner on May 1, 2019 16:57:36 GMT -5
Per some previous discussion -
Actually, since my source equipment is usually placed close to the pre-amp & Power Amp maybe there's really little consequence to using Balanced (XLR) vs. Non-Balanced (RCA / Phono) sockets - so long as quality interconnects (as SHORT as possible) are used So maybe the Balanced circuitry is less important than well-executed low-noise designs And like I said above - some of the features that I am looking for would be NICE, but not 100% necessary I'm mainly looking for "Maximum Bang for the Buck"
I have never heard any of the Parasound equipment before. Looked-up the JC 2 BP - seems to be quite a QUALITY piece / in same realm as the XSP-1, but a bit on the pricey side Their P 5 may have more of the FEATURES that I am seeking (with a fairly high-end DAC), while trading-off a lower price and not-quite-as-nice build quality / shielding.
I have two local dealers - one carries Bryston and McIntosh and the other is mostly high-end "audio Jewelry" beyond my practical reach, but they both sometimes get good mid to high-end trade-ins. The more "basic" Brystons seem to get high marks and that Jolida unit someone posted a while ago looks interesting. Anyone have or listen to the stuff from Cary Audio?
From some research / reading that I have already done - my NAD unit is known for having a slightly-"warm" (1980's "Brit") Sound, which may work well with the XPS-2 Power Amp (offsetting what some describe as a bit of a harshness / edginess), so maybe this is something that I should also maybe be looking-for or at least considering for comparison.
I KNOW that I want to keep the Pre-Amp "Pure Analog" - not those new-fangled units that convert all of the Inputs to Digital and route the signals to an internal DAC for the Output(s). I KNOW that if it is done properly - this may actually offer superior performance, but I'm just not ready to trust ALL of my sources to further "Digital Games" just YET...
So, is the water sufficiently clouded NOW?
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Post by Gary Cook on May 1, 2019 18:34:37 GMT -5
FWIW, the internal circuitry in the XSP-1 is also fully balanced (discrete) which means in theory there is no "internal" noise exported out of the balanced outputs. In real life that is exactly what it delivers (to me), with a fully balanced (discrete) ERC-3 feeding it and a pair of fully balanced (discrete) XPA-1L amplifying the whole system is dead silent (when it should be dead silent). Balanced interconnections (in and out) are a minor part of what an XSP-1 is all about, that coupled with the internal balancing circuitry is what makes them incomparable at many times their price point.
Cheers Gary
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Post by boomzilla on May 2, 2019 2:39:40 GMT -5
...Anyone have or listen to the stuff from Cary Audio?... Cary SI300.2D
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Post by wpl on May 2, 2019 4:00:20 GMT -5
hello emos who can help ? how good does the reference stereo mode sound: from the rmc-1 compared to the xsp-1 preamp? does he sound better? or worse? or is it equivalent? the rmc is so good. that he can possibly replace the xsp? ?
because the rmc has no phono. is still an xps-1 or sp-1 on the subject which is good / equivalent, or better than the phono of xsp-1. it should not be a compromise. but at least equivalent. but the goal is a better sound like the xsp-1 ?? best regards peter
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Post by geeqner on May 2, 2019 8:22:13 GMT -5
FWIW, the internal circuitry in the XSP-1 is also fully balanced (discrete) which means in theory there is no "internal" noise exported out of the balanced outputs. In real life that is exactly what it delivers (to me), with a fully balanced (discrete) ERC-3 feeding it and a pair of fully balanced (discrete) XPA-1L amplifying the whole system is dead silent (when it should be dead silent). Balanced interconnections (in and out) are a minor part of what an XSP-1 is all about, that coupled with the internal balancing circuitry is what makes them incomparable at many times their price point. Cheers Gary Yeah - That's my understanding, and it's the direction that I'm currently leaning-in. The XSP-1 seems to be "near-ideal" (at least, ON PAPER) for my application: - Top-notch quality for the $$
- It will allow me to better manage the connection to my Subwoofer
- Balanced Inputs for connections to future upgraded sources
- Balanced Outputs to feed my current XPS-2 Amp (which I KNOW is not fully-balanced, but DOES take advantage of low-noise Input Circuitry)
- Remote (although this is not all that big of a deal for me - once I select a source & volume level, I typically do not do a lot of switching / adjustment)
- The built-in Phono Stage is supposed to be pretty decent (although NAD models similar to mine were once referred to as "semi-legendary"...)
- IT'S "NEWER" - my existing Receiver has probably experienced gradual deterioration that will be "fixed" by almost ANY quality new Pre-Amp
However - I STILL want to explore other good alternatives
Which amp(s) are you currently running with the XSP-1? Is yours Gen 1 or 2?
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Post by amped on May 2, 2019 8:30:36 GMT -5
Look for a solid 2 channel pre from Audio Research something balanced. My AR purchase was the single biggest improvement my system has ever seen by a long shot. You can find a solid LS series performer for around 2k or better. I will promise you even a modest AR, Creek, Audio Illusions ET AL. Pre will be light years ahead of what you are using. Whatever you do DO NOT get a pre that does anything else but 2 channel.
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Post by amped on May 2, 2019 8:36:58 GMT -5
hello emos who can help ? how good does the reference stereo mode sound: from the rmc-1 compared to the xsp-1 preamp? does he sound better? or worse? or is it equivalent? the rmc is so good. that he can possibly replace the xsp? ? because the rmc has no phono. is still an xps-1 or sp-1 on the subject which is good / equivalent, or better than the phono of xsp-1. it should not be a compromise. but at least equivalent. but the goal is a better sound like the xsp-1 ?? best regards peter If you truly want to listen to 2 channel you need a different Pre. Period. The "Reference" mode simply takes the signal away from the tone and processor loop it does sound better in that mode, But when it comes to 2 channel EMO does not play well. The only reason they added that circuitry was to try and be all things to all people.
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Post by geeqner on May 2, 2019 9:37:40 GMT -5
Look for a solid 2 channel pre from Audio Research something balanced. My AR purchase was the single biggest improvement my system has ever seen by a long shot. You can find a solid LS series performer for around 2k or better. I will promise you even a modest AR, Creek, Audio Illusions ET AL. Pre will be light years ahead of what you are using. Whatever you do DO NOT get a pre that does anything else but 2 channel. I've seen / heard some Audio Research stuff - It's awfully nice, but also a bit on the crazy-expensive side (at least, their high-end Tube stuff). [Wifey would F-R-E-A-K at the thought of paying roughly half a new car for a Stereo Component, regardless of how "good" it is...] A HiFi shop a few blocks from where I live carries Audio Research. They sometimes get good used examples and some of their less costly solid-state stuff in on trades Once I have some more "stereo upgrade funds" scraped-up - I might ask them to watch for such items for me The cool thing is that THEY are big believers in the "Home Audition"
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Post by amped on May 2, 2019 11:16:56 GMT -5
Just so you know the only items in my stack that I purchased new were my GE Speakers and my Phono Carts...Everything else was second hand. I too have a wife that I have to explain big expenditures too out of mutual trust and respect. I will also tell you that it takes work to "find" a good deal and even more work to find a "Great deal"! Just one example is my Bryston Mono Blocks the 28B SST2s I found them on Audiogon I had a 14BSST2 that I was smitten with and was not in the market at all. His asking price was $9,000 which was already a great deal considering they were 11.5 each and you need 2! So I engaged him in conversation and he told me he already bought their replacements the 28B squared and the deal he thought he had on these fell through and he was stuck! I offered him $6,800 for the pair and he thanked me and shipped them to me the next day. I sold my 14 for $4,500 in 2 days so I netted 21k amps for $2,300 new money! The point is I (even if I could) would NEVER buy high end gear Brand new...I mean 22k for Amps!?!?! LOL. As for your search for a QUALITY GREAT SOUNDING preamp there are a few on eBay and Audiogon right now UNDER 1K ie.: Audio Research SP-5 PreAmplifier on eBay for $895 obo...I would take this older Tube Pre over anything a "newer" bigbox pre today...
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