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Post by DavidR on May 5, 2019 12:05:07 GMT -5
Well if you want to spend some serious money on cables this website has something for you >>> douglasconnection.com/
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on May 5, 2019 12:13:36 GMT -5
You mean the 'My Pillow Guy' ? PillowS LOL
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Post by gus4emo on May 5, 2019 12:55:51 GMT -5
Bah! To the nay sayers! They will give you a consistent overall synergy and good looking uniformed looking system! They’ll look good doing it and if your reasonable they won’t break the bank! Enjoy your purchase and don’t worry about what others say! You like what you like and they’re your toys! And you’ve spent your own money! Maybe they’ll do nothing for your system, but they’ll look great doing it! Why did you have to include that, might as well shoot me, lol....
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Post by 405x5 on May 5, 2019 13:10:40 GMT -5
I hope the OP enjoys his experience. I recommend experiencing directly things to everyone. It's much more meaningful than reading about it, theorizing about it, or accepting some one else's opinion as the only truth. That’s great general advice, but on loudspeaker wiring?? Nah
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Post by jackfish on May 5, 2019 13:23:16 GMT -5
Bah! To the nay sayers! They will give you a consistent overall synergy and good looking uniformed looking system! They’ll look good doing it and if your reasonable they won’t break the bank! Enjoy your purchase and don’t worry about what others say! You like what you like and they’re your toys! And you’ve spent your own money! Maybe they’ll do nothing for your system, but they’ll look great doing it! I don’t know, that seems to be doing something for my system!
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Post by DavidR on May 5, 2019 13:30:02 GMT -5
I can understand a different material could cause a change in performance like tin vs copper vs silver, etc. But as long as the wire is of sufficient size to carry the volts/amps/watts then all should be the same. Wire comes in different strand sizes and different weaves has anyone looked into any differences in the performance of these variables? Let's think about 'skin effect' - is it real?
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Post by donh50 on May 5, 2019 13:34:38 GMT -5
If you can't measure it you can't hear it. AR Engineers (MIT grads) on The Classic Speaker Pages use lamp cord/zipcord and say that's all that is needed. At least I use decent speaker wire (10AWG) Depends upon what you measure. Some things are much harder than others, like imaging and soundstage, and many things we can measured are not, or only poorly, and never make it to a data sheet. Which is just as well as most folk probably would not understand them anyway, nor care. Skin effect is very real and extremely import for the multi-GHz cables we use at my day job. At audio? Not so much... And that is part of the problem -- it is easy to mis-apply the science and engineering to use real things inappropriately to sell a product. A well-known cable manufacturer many years ago presente plots of their and another cable showing large differences in frequency response. Catch was, no axis labels, so the huge rolloff presented was actually tenths of a dB up in the MHz region. Hmph. For example, speaker wire length is always a topic for debate. One of the things often overlooked, and yet easily measurable, is how the cable impedance affects the crossover and resultant frequency response. Gain loss is easily compensated, but if your wire is too high in impedance (too small and/or too long), it can change the frequency response of the speakers. Easily measured, but then we have people claiming "Cable XYZ sounds much better than ABC, I can hear it!" without digging into the "why" and it morphs into a grandiose (and expensive) dive down the rabbit hole. I used to be one who could hear the difference among cables, and of course it made a difference if it was 0.999% OFC instead of only 0.99% OFC, etc. A number of controlled tests and a few engineering degrees was humbling and convinced me most of the power of marketing. And yet there are things heard that lead to real insights into how and what we hear. Unmeasurable? No, sometimes it just takes the right measurement. And interpretation, perhaps the hardest part in applying measurements. I keep telling myself to stay out of "religious" wars on things like cables and other topics ruled by subjectivists. I'll leave with this original (AFAIK) study in the subjectivist vs. objectivist debate I wrote a long time ago. Hope y'all enjoy it. - Don People like to help each other, and do not like it when their help is questioned. Beliefs enter into it, people get riled, conversation degenerates.
Example:
SUB: I just added a new Pet Rock to my system, the imaging is better, a veil was lifted, bass is better, you have to get one of these! OBJ: I do not see how a pet rock can do any of that. Have you measured the system? SUB: Why would I care about measurements? I can hear it! OBJ: There's no way a pet rock can do that. Without measurements, you have no proof. SUB: What do you mean "no proof"? Didn't I just say I can hear a difference? OBJ: That is not proof. You need to run a controlled test, have somebody place and remove the pet rock several times and see if you can tell when it is there. SUB: I don't need some test, I can tell it works! And I just had my friend over and he heard it too so there! OBJ: That's ridiculous you are both nuts. I'm just trying to save you money. SUB: OK, I found an article by the Pet Rock Sound chief engineer. I don't understand it, but he says it aligns the molecular flow of the universe inside my room and that's why it works. OBJ: Sounds like marketing. What measurements did they take? SUB: There's a graph, it shows ripples in the force without the Pet Rock that are gone when it is added. Happy now? OBJ: No, that is meaningless. You are all mad. SUB: Well, prove it! Measure the molecular flow with and without a Pet Rock and see the difference! Then you can see and show us all why it works. OBJ: That is nuts and I don't have anything like that kind of equipment. SUB: Then you can't prove it doesn't work! You're a geek with no ears! OBJ: You have so much expectation bias it is running out of your ears. No wonder you think you hear something. SUB: Snooty objectivist scumbag. OBJ: Ignorant gullible subjectivist. <Thread closed>
THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE! No relation to any actual people, audio systems, or Pet Rocks is implied. No Pet Rocks were harmed in the making of this post. - Don
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Post by repeetavx on May 5, 2019 13:41:35 GMT -5
Congratulations Amped. As someone who is currently breaking in a new set of $600 speaker cables, I look forward to your review.
To the rest of you, nevermind.
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,340
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Post by DYohn on May 5, 2019 13:50:14 GMT -5
I hope the OP enjoys his experience. I recommend experiencing directly things to everyone. It's much more meaningful than reading about it, theorizing about it, or accepting some one else's opinion as the only truth. That’s great general advice, but on loudspeaker wiring?? Nah Why not? I say if you are curious to go for it.
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Post by DavidR on May 5, 2019 13:55:50 GMT -5
Congratulations Amped. As someone who is currently breaking in a new set of $600 speaker cables, I look forward to your review. To the rest of you, nevermind. What exactly is breaking in on wire?
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Post by teaman on May 5, 2019 14:01:23 GMT -5
www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm?fbclid=IwAR2zWn2gPI029rk7U_4UC_Zrl7ac5QWdo1MYpMXQFkC7Qo4hfFFsbmg98OASo far the only upgrade in sound I have found is by using 99.99% Pure Fine silver wire. I have only used it for speaker wire and binding post jumpers but the difference in sound and detail was immediate. You can purchase dead soft round 999 pure silver wire on Ebay or Etsy. I have found that 12 AWG wire works best for the rear jumpers and 14 AWG works best for speaker wire. For under $100 you can grab four six foot lengths of 14 AWG to use for speaker wire and under $20 for four of the 12 AWG six inch jumper wires. Considering cable companies like Kimber offer 6 foot speaker wires made from this same wire for $22k, I would say this will give you most of what you get for waaaaaaaaaaay less. Just to add, if you don't like the results, you can resell the wire at cost, since artisans, jewelers, etc will gladly take it off your hands. Try it, it is money well spent
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Post by 405x5 on May 5, 2019 14:15:40 GMT -5
Congratulations Amped. As someone who is currently breaking in a new set of $600 speaker cables, I look forward to your review. To the rest of you, nevermind. Another ludicrous claim debunked decades ago
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Post by 405x5 on May 5, 2019 14:19:02 GMT -5
That’s great general advice, but on loudspeaker wiring?? Nah Why not? I say if you are curious to go for it. Because in this particular case, it’s like driving into a tree 🌲 just to see what might happen.
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Post by DavidR on May 5, 2019 14:23:58 GMT -5
www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm?fbclid=IwAR2zWn2gPI029rk7U_4UC_Zrl7ac5QWdo1MYpMXQFkC7Qo4hfFFsbmg98OASo far the only upgrade in sound I have found is by using 99.99% Pure Fine silver wire. I have only used it for speaker wire and binding post jumpers but the difference in sound and detail was immediate. You can purchase dead soft round 999 pure silver wire on Ebay or Etsy. I have found that 12 AWG wire works best for the rear jumpers and 14 AWG works best for speaker wire. For under $100 you can grab four six foot lengths of 14 AWG to use for speaker wire and under $20 for four of the 12 AWG six inch jumper wires. Considering cable companies like Kimber offer 6 foot speaker wires made from this same wire for $22k, I would say this will give you most of what you get for waaaaaaaaaaay less. Silver is the best conductor of electricity.
Is that silver wire solid or stranded?
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Post by teaman on May 5, 2019 14:24:21 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,340
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Post by DYohn on May 5, 2019 14:33:34 GMT -5
Why not? I say if you are curious to go for it. Because in this particular case, it’s like driving into a tree 🌲 just to see what might happen. Funny, but not really. It's more like buying the gold-leaf ice cream for $1000. I say if you can afford it and want to try it, knock yourself out. Me, I'll have Ben and Jerry's but I have no problem with someone who wants to eat the gold.
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Post by repeetavx on May 5, 2019 14:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by DavidR on May 5, 2019 15:01:36 GMT -5
I read it rather fast but I do not remember seeing anything that describes what is physically changing in the wire to cause a change in sound.
I know of capacitor break-in and some believe and some don't but there is a change in the dielectric and the microscopic pores in it get 'filled in' as you use them.
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Post by donh50 on May 5, 2019 15:27:28 GMT -5
Moving the mic an inch or two will have more effect than cables breaking in. And hour-to-hour, day-to-day physical and mental variance in ourselves is a much bigger change in perceived sound than what the electrons in my cable (or its dielectric) are doing.
I ended my TAS subscription decades ago largely because reviews went so far they seemed to have lost touch with reality. Makes me wonder what was wrong with the system before that cables made such a huge difference.
IME/IMO - Don
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Post by pop on May 5, 2019 17:37:31 GMT -5
I honestly have yet to hear a difference over my monoprice or blue jeans interconnects. I use blue jeans currently just because I like the quality of them better.
I have a ton of very expensive audioquest wires for my 5.2 that I got for free through points years ago. No difference to me. But they are very nice cables. Feel and look nice. No loom needed
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