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Post by routlaw on Aug 2, 2019 15:18:32 GMT -5
I have the XMC-1, am the original owner and considering the RMC-1 trade in program. Cutting to the chase is it worth it for someone not interested in Atmos or any of the other mega channel audio modes? I would be looking for improved two channel audio and the ability for 4K video if and when I eventually upgrade my projector.
Note, I'm not dissatisfied with the XMC-1 at all, but the 4K video intrigues me as well as the possibility of improved audio.
Thanks in advance
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Post by davidl81 on Aug 2, 2019 15:55:37 GMT -5
I have the XMC-1, am the original owner and considering the RMC-1 trade in program. Cutting to the chase is it worth it for someone not interested in Atmos or any of the other mega channel audio modes? I would be looking for improved two channel audio and the ability for 4K video if and when I eventually upgrade my projector. Note, I'm not dissatisfied with the XMC-1 at all, but the 4K video intrigues me as well as the possibility of improved audio. Thanks in advance I would think if you do not need all of the channels at this time, then the upgrade from the XMC-1 to the RMC-1 may be tough to justify. A better middle ground would be to do the XMC-1 to XMC-2 upgrade that is I think $1000 or so. For the most part you will have everything the RMC-1 has to offer in the XMC-2 with the exception of future upgrade modules and surround channels not being fully balanced. But you save $2000.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2019 16:15:57 GMT -5
I have the XMC-1, am the original owner and considering the RMC-1 trade in program. Cutting to the chase is it worth it for someone not interested in Atmos or any of the other mega channel audio modes? I would be looking for improved two channel audio and the ability for 4K video if and when I eventually upgrade my projector. Note, I'm not dissatisfied with the XMC-1 at all, but the 4K video intrigues me as well as the possibility of improved audio. Thanks in advance I’d agree with David that given your criteria it’s tough to justify, but would say that if the “polish / finish, size, and build” of the RMC-1 appeals to you then that would be a reason to get it. I doubt there would be a big difference with two channel music with any of them, though the DAC’s are different on the newer models. It sounds like there is a slight difference in the 4K handshake (one report of one less black screen), but they are the same video board. IMO the biggest motivation with any new model in your situation, would be a new unit with a new warranty, and a new platform that will get more attention and upgrades in the future. Also with the RMC-1 the potential of expansion boards, if that’s appealing.
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Post by routlaw on Aug 2, 2019 17:08:47 GMT -5
All good sound info, thanks.
I don't see where there is a trade in program for the XMC-1 to XMC-2. Are we sure there is only a $1k difference in trade in?
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Post by sahmen on Aug 2, 2019 17:19:45 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 2, 2019 17:25:07 GMT -5
All good sound info, thanks. I don't see where there is a trade in program for the XMC-1 to XMC-2. Are we sure there is only a $1k difference in trade in? Yes, $600 if you have the V3 board.
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Post by repeetavx on Aug 2, 2019 18:57:51 GMT -5
The real question is do the new chip sets (DACs) sound better than the ones in the XMC-1.
Like you my XMC-1 does double duty. It's my "reference" stereo set-up, and my home theater set-up. The stereo (main channels) of the XMC-1 are fully balanced from the DACs to the XLR outputs just like they are in the new XMC-2/RMC-1.
The difference seems to be that the DACs in the new gen are operated in a "mono" mode, using more chips, to further increase separation and reduce the noise floor. I believe that Emotiva has said that the noise floor has about a 3db improvement.
The biggest difference is how the difference in Semiconductor brands effects the character of the sound, and how Emotiva is able to compensate for it back to their "house" sound.
So until I see a lengthy discussion about the differences in the sound between the two, I'm going to wait. Ecstatically happy with the sound of my XMC-1. With a close attentive eye towards upgrading.
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Post by markc on Aug 3, 2019 14:34:26 GMT -5
The real question is do the new chip sets (DACs) sound better than the ones in the XMC-1. No. Digital to Analogue conversion has reached a Zenith, even before the design of the XMC-1 was finalised 5 years ago and It is almost certain that there will never be a new technique or chip with that results in night and day improvement in the way 16/44.1 right up to 24bit / 192kHz is converted to analogue. Compact Disc came out publicly in 1981. Early methods / chips were dodgy and real improvements were made in the next ten years. Although mainly from understanding the analog to digital encodes however, but also the decodes. Since then, it has been pretty static. Converting a flac to wave and then back again is the same on every single computer or device. Electronics are just so reliable and digital to analog is the same. Now, any decent pre-amp has clean signal paths and electrical separation so differences are negligible. What you pay for is the feature set but mostly the satisfaction, that we are all susceptible to, myself included, of upgraditis. Do the 24/192 files on HDTracks sound any different from identical masters at 24/96kHz on ANY audio system in the world. No. Indistinguishable. However, I am still tempted by "upgrading" to the RMC-1L for my 7.1 system where the only benefit I can see will be Dirac 2.0 which will also be working at a higher default sample rate (fixed at 24/48 in the XMC-1)
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 4, 2019 10:35:52 GMT -5
I have the XMC-1, am the original owner and considering the RMC-1 trade in program. Cutting to the chase is it worth it for someone not interested in Atmos or any of the other mega channel audio modes? I would be looking for improved two channel audio and the ability for 4K video if and when I eventually upgrade my projector. Note, I'm not dissatisfied with the XMC-1 at all, but the 4K video intrigues me as well as the possibility of improved audio. Thanks in advance Your XMC upgraded to handle ultra HD (if it can still be done in Franklin) is the way to go IMHO. I’ve fallen out of the loop and don’t know if it can still be done. That being said I’m in the same boat with an XMC, have zero interest in the object based audio route, however inevitable that when my monitor finally blows the new one will be 4K by default. Bill
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 4, 2019 11:06:46 GMT -5
I have the XMC-1, am the original owner and considering the RMC-1 trade in program. Cutting to the chase is it worth it for someone not interested in Atmos or any of the other mega channel audio modes? I would be looking for improved two channel audio and the ability for 4K video if and when I eventually upgrade my projector. Note, I'm not dissatisfied with the XMC-1 at all, but the 4K video intrigues me as well as the possibility of improved audio. Thanks in advance Your XMC upgraded to handle ultra HD (if it can still be done in Franklin) is the way to go IMHO. I’ve fallen out of the loop and don’t know if it can still be done. That being said I’m in the same boat with an XMC, have zero interest in the object based audio route, however inevitable that when my monitor finally blows the new one will be 4K by default. Bill If they don’t get more V3 boards (which I expect they will) they could even have an XMC-1 to XMC-1v3 upgrade, using stock from other trade ins. Then you have to weigh the $600 difference to get a new platform and warranty, still pretty compelling. Economically it seems either stay with your XMC-1 the way it is, or install the V3 yourself; once you start shipping units, the trade in gains appeal.
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Post by routlaw on Aug 5, 2019 17:52:31 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input on this. Sorry got busy working on "this old house" and didn't take the time to reply. The XMC-2 starts to make more sense indeed. Wonder when that will be released?
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Post by audiosyndrome on Aug 5, 2019 19:45:09 GMT -5
The real question is do the new chip sets (DACs) sound better than the ones in the XMC-1. No. Digital to Analogue conversion has reached a Zenith, even before the design of the XMC-1 was finalised 5 years ago and It is almost certain that there will never be a new technique or chip with that results in night and day improvement in the way 16/44.1 right up to 24bit / 192kHz is converted to analogue. Compact Disc came out publicly in 1981. Early methods / chips were dodgy and real improvements were made in the next ten years. Although mainly from understanding the analog to digital encodes however, but also the decodes. Since then, it has been pretty static. Converting a flac to wave and then back again is the same on every single computer or device. Electronics are just so reliable and digital to analog is the same. Now, any decent pre-amp has clean signal paths and electrical separation so differences are negligible. What you pay for is the feature set but mostly the satisfaction, that we are all susceptible to, myself included, of upgraditis. Do the 24/192 files on HDTracks sound any different from identical masters at 24/96kHz on ANY audio system in the world. No. Indistinguishable. However, I am still tempted by "upgrading" to the RMC-1L for my 7.1 system where the only benefit I can see will be Dirac 2.0 which will also be working at a higher default sample rate (fixed at 24/48 in the XMC-1) I think the owners of the latest gen R2R DACs may take exception to your statement. Although I do agree the difference in sound quality of the upcoming XMC-2, RMC-1 DACs will be negligible. Russ
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Post by rbk123 on Aug 5, 2019 20:00:37 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input on this. Sorry got busy working on "this old house" and didn't take the time to reply. The XMC-2 starts to make more sense indeed. Wonder when that will be released? July of '19.
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Post by ottaone on Aug 5, 2019 22:44:13 GMT -5
If you want to upgrade to 4K, then just connect video sources directly to 4K TV which usually has up to four inputs.
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Post by creimes on Aug 5, 2019 23:26:14 GMT -5
So I was searching the RMC-1L and was directed by google to a few sites, this one in Canada an Emotiva dealer, they have the RMC-1L page up before Emotiva even does haha, and I can request a quote, sorry to all you down south but it looks as though us Canucks have first dibs eh!! haha, all jokes aside I do find it interesting, they have the RC-1, RMC-1L and XMC-2 on their site ?? www.quebecacoustic.com/en/brand/emotiva-canada-en/
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Post by rbk123 on Aug 6, 2019 8:33:13 GMT -5
They had to get the changes in before the website freezes when winter up there hits.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,937
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Post by KeithL on Aug 6, 2019 9:21:46 GMT -5
I would agree with Russ there...
I'm not personally a special fan of R2R DACs.... but there are in fact small, but sometimes quite audible, differences between different DACs.... and between different filter choices on the same DAC.
(However, as with many things, as the technology gets closer to perfect, the differences get smaller and smaller, and can sometimes be difficult to quantify.)
I would point out, however, that the comparison of DACs to file conversions is not really valid. FLAC files and WAV files are both lossless - and the conversion process is standardized - so converting back and forth between them results in no difference - as long as it's done correctly. (And, since we're talking about purely digital data, we can compare the actual data, and confirm that it is identical.)
However, when you use different DACs to convert a digital signal to an analog signal, you will find that the analog outputs they produce are in fact measurably different. (There is no question that the results are not the same. The only question is whether the differences are audible, and if so, how significant they are, and under what circumstances.)
I would agree, however, that I wouldn't expect to hear any "night and day difference" between the XMC-1 and our newer processors (other than Atmos and DTS:X and more channels).
No. Digital to Analogue conversion has reached a Zenith, even before the design of the XMC-1 was finalised 5 years ago and It is almost certain that there will never be a new technique or chip with that results in night and day improvement in the way 16/44.1 right up to 24bit / 192kHz is converted to analogue. Compact Disc came out publicly in 1981. Early methods / chips were dodgy and real improvements were made in the next ten years. Although mainly from understanding the analog to digital encodes however, but also the decodes. Since then, it has been pretty static. Converting a flac to wave and then back again is the same on every single computer or device. Electronics are just so reliable and digital to analog is the same. Now, any decent pre-amp has clean signal paths and electrical separation so differences are negligible. What you pay for is the feature set but mostly the satisfaction, that we are all susceptible to, myself included, of upgraditis. Do the 24/192 files on HDTracks sound any different from identical masters at 24/96kHz on ANY audio system in the world. No. Indistinguishable. However, I am still tempted by "upgrading" to the RMC-1L for my 7.1 system where the only benefit I can see will be Dirac 2.0 which will also be working at a higher default sample rate (fixed at 24/48 in the XMC-1) I think the owners of the latest gen R2R DACs may take exception to your statement. Although I do agree the difference in sound quality of the upcoming XMC-2, RMC-1 DACs will be negligible. Russ
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Post by creimes on Aug 6, 2019 10:09:11 GMT -5
They had to get the changes in before the website freezes when winter up there hits. Cold and snow don't scare us up here, maybe they had to ship them before the roads get too icy
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Post by routlaw on Aug 6, 2019 17:26:35 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input on this. Sorry got busy working on "this old house" and didn't take the time to reply. The XMC-2 starts to make more sense indeed. Wonder when that will be released? July of '19. I don't think so, the product pages states its unavailable. We can hope for Aug or Sept of '19 I suppose.
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Post by routlaw on Aug 6, 2019 17:36:22 GMT -5
I think the owners of the latest gen R2R DACs may take exception to your statement. Although I do agree the difference in sound quality of the upcoming XMC-2, RMC-1 DACs will be negligible. Russ I agree entirely being the owner of one of them. Didn't want to pick a fight on this, but having owned a litany of different digital front ends some extremely expensive others not so much there really is something special with the R2R DAC's. Much more organic sounding than any delta sigma I have ever heard. They get the 3 T's right, timbre, texture and tonality IMHO, that is normally missed by delta sigma dacs. I will add this however regarding the difference in at least some DAC chips. I owned the Oppo 103 for quite a few years which sported a 32 bit Cirrus Logic chip, but once the 203 was released I bought that and sold the 103. The 203 uses the same dac chip that is in the XMC-2/RMC series of Emotiva processors. Using the analog outputs of the 203 and 103, these two devices sounded nothing alike IMO. I much preferred the 203 with the AKM dac chips.
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