Benefits of XMC-1 PRIMARILY as a 2.1 Pre-Amp vs. XSP-1?

[geeqner]

FYI - I AM pretty knowledgeable in the fundamentals of Audio / Stereo, but I am a NEOPHYTE in HT (but I know what the basic channels / setups are)

With that in mind:

I am PRIMARILY interested in a new Pre-Amplifier for use with my 2-Channel Stereo System, which is located in my Living Room. 

LR is less than optimal for Speaker Placement and has some furniture in the way.

SPEAKER SETUP(S):
Primary Speakers are smallish Bookshelf style on Stands and I have an Amplified Sub with BOTH Speaker / Feed-Thru and Mono Line-In I/O 
I MAY be able to re-locate one speaker to sort-of "flank" the TV, but the (LF) Speaker would be immediately adjacent to the TV and (RF) would be about 7 feet to the Right.
TV is an oldish Sony "W" series with decent built-in speakers - so I MAY also be able to use the built-in speakers (summed if possible) as a serviceable (CF) Speaker

OK - So it sounds like I am narrowing-down my choices and current "Front-Runners" are NOW Emotiva Refurbed XMC-1 and XSP-1

BENEFITS / ADVANTAGES OF XMC-1:

• Comparable Price
• Can serve occasional Home Theater duty
• Dirac may help to compensate for less-than-optimal speaker placement / subwoofer optimization
• Balanced Primary Inputs / Outputs should be comparable to circuitry within XSP-1
• Built-In TUNER (I occasionally listen to radio / would need separate tuner for XSP-1)

BENEFITS / ADVANTAGES OF XSP-1:

• NO real concerns about future compatibility with Video / HT sources
• Pure Analog design
• Built-In Phono Stage (I occasionally set-up / listen to vinyl, but I could add a Schiit Mani or XPS-1 to the XMC-1 for not a whole lot of moolah)
• Designed from the Ground-Up for 2-Channel
• NO OS / Hard Drive to worry about

For those of you who are more "in the know" about HDMI etc:

Q1.  If I only plan to use it for 2.1 , 3.1, or maybe as high as 5.2 and do not care about ATMOS - how long of a "time horizon" would I have with the XMC before it will become incompatible with HT sources?
        (I don't really see myself going any more up-scale from that and maybe 4K with my next TV / Monitor - next home MIGHT have a dedicated HT room, but that would be a whole new setup.)

Q2.  What does the XMC-1 use for a "Hard Drive"?  Do I need to be concerned about a Drive Crash making it unusable 4-5 years down the line?

Q3.  I'm thinking that the benefits of the XMC-1 (if I can snag one of the Factory Re-Furbs) outweigh the benefits of the XSP-1 for my listening room. 
Q3a.  Do you agree or disagree?
Q3b.  Please explain why?

[Gary Cook]

As an owner of both an XMC-1 and an XSP-1 my experience is that for LISTENING to stereo 2.1 music I use the XSP-1 every time. For vinyl or CD's it's unbeatable, dead silent when it needs to be and equally dynamic when it needs to be. If I just want music on in the background while I'm doing something else then the XMC-1 is the go, just play some tunes via the ATV4K. I'm not a fan of room correction for stereo 2.1 music, I've tried most varieties and straight uncorrected always sounds best to me. Keeping in mind that my room is not terrible acoustically and the sub is tuned/placed for it. Plus an XSP-1 will always be a high quality pre amp, it will never go "out of date" or be made technologically obsolete.

In summary, if you just want music on in the background and/or you have digital sources then the XMC-1 is a fine choice. But if your sources are analogue and you want pure unadulterated 2.1 stereo music then the XSP-1 is unbeatable.

Personally I wouldn't look at an XMC-1 with HDMI 1.4, it will have a limited life and the upgrade HDMI board won't be available forever. Better to start off with HDMI 2.0 knowing that it has a long life left (in processor/AVR speak anyway).


BTW there is no hard drive in an XMC-1, firmware lives in memory.

Cheers'
Gary

[garbulky]

(Note: subjective impressions.)

So....the CLEAREST most transparent analog preamp I've heard is the Emotiva DC-1 - same for two channel. The XSP-1 sounds great but in terms of that last bit of clarity - the kind that allows you to hear the dimensions of the room inside a recording - it's not quite there.

But what it does do is provide really nice punch and a "large" sound but at the expense of a slight muddiness to everything. With less powerful amps than an XPA-1 gen 2, the XSP-1 honestly sounds quite a bit nicer than the DC-1 direct. It sounds silky smooth, and just all around nice and is the right way to go.

But with the XPA-1 gen 2, an amp that has huge amounts of detail, the clarity of the DC-1 simply shines and when I back to back auditioned the two, I was dissapointed to find the DC-1 was simply clearer. (The same is true for Emotiva PA-1 amps which are really close to the same level).

The XMC-1 from the very short time spent with it appeared to basically sound like a DC-1 - if you didn't' engage the digital room correction. In the short time I spent with it, I would say I preferred the room correction off. However I did note that the room correction did significantly make it sound quite different.

So I would say the XMC-1 may have the clarity of the DC-1 though I can't say for sure as I simply spent too little time with it.

In terms of looks, ergonomics, features, build - well hot diggity, both the XMC-1 and the XSP-1 simply look and feel fabulous.

[sahmen]

Well, I think the XMC-1 wins, hands down, even though I can't list all the reasons that come to mind, because of time constraints. The Short version is this: since the XMC-1 replaced my XSP-1/Sherbourn PT 7030 combo, in 2015, I have not been tempted to go or look back, ever. My XSP-1 has been gathering proverbial dust in a cold room for almost 5 years now, although I have not had the courage to sell it, as I always retain fond memories of it, and think I might find some use for it some day, in another set up somewhere... but that day is still yet to come. The XMC-1 can do great 5.1/7.1 HT, as everyone already knows, with or without DIRAC, even though many prefer with, and, in addition, do 2/2.1-channel sound quality which is as great as the XSP-1, although the sound signatures might be slightly different...

What has made the XMC-1 even more special for 2-channel play back, in my case, is its reference stereo feature, That enables me to feed the 2-channel signal from my Yggy (through XMC-1) directly (i.e without processing) to my XPA-1 Gen 2 monoblocks,  and I can tell you that nothing I could ever do with the XSP-1 for two channel, can beat the sound of the 2-channel with Yggy/XMC-1 (in reference stereo)... If you have any killer DAC, you can rig it up to your XMC-1 through the Reference stereo, and get a killer 2-channel sound (that could beat the XSP-1 any day), as an added option to the various 2-channel flavors or choices the XMC-1 can itself already give you... And you will still have all the 5.1/7.1 HT functionalities in addition, (not to mention future modular upgradability, if you change your mind about that), which you will not have with the XSP-1...

Should I still go on...? Really? I am almost at the point of thinking that the XMC-1 sells itself in this scenario, as compared to the XSP-1, but I am sure that , this being an audio forum, it is possible that someone else might take the opposing view, and that's okay too... YMMV, and all... To my mind, it's XMC-1 all the way.

I have not upgraded the hdmi on my XMC-1 since I got it, and it has been almost 5 years already... Of course, I shall upgrade to XMC-2, so that I can get the the higher-spec'ed HDMI versions for ATMOS, and 4K movies, etc.... If you have the XMC-1 and are not interested in either 4k or ATMOS, then you do not need to worry about any other HDMI spec than the 1.4... If you happen to change your mind in the future about the desirability of 4k and ATMOS, you will always have upgrade options with the XMC-1 that you do not with the XSP-1

Again, I think the XMC-1 represents the promise of a richer, and far more versatile experience, as compared with the XSP-1, no matter how I look at it... Of course mileages may vary

[klinemj]

When I got my XMC-1, I ended up getting rid of my XSP-1. In reference stereo it was as good as the XSP-1. I also moved my DC-1 out of the system because the XMC-1's DACs were as good as the DC-1. And, there is a way, as I've noted here many times, to actually run a sub in reference stereo via some tricky wiring.

Mark

[geeqner]

When you use "Reference Stereo" Mode - does it disable ALL other Outputs?

Anybody know if the "Factory Re-Furb" units that Emotiva is selling include the upgraded HDMI Board or not.

Any news on if newer / future HDMI ports will be "backwards compatible" with older versions, if you do not take advantage of the added channels?

Either way - I'd be using it with my relatively new XPA-2 which should have PLENTY of "punch" (although, I do realize that it's not quite up to the bar set by the XPA-1 and XPR series)

[creimes]

Sept 6, 2019 10:38:12 GMT -5 geeqner said:

When you use "Reference Stereo" Mode - does it disable ALL other Outputs?

Anybody know if the "Factory Re-Furb" units that Emotiva is selling include the upgraded HDMI Board or not.

Any news on if newer / future HDMI ports will be "backwards compatible" with older versions, if you do not take advantage of the added channels?

Either way - I'd be using it with my relatively new XPA-2 which should have PLENTY of "punch" (although, I do realize that it's not quite up to the bar set by the XPA-1 and XPR series)

Reference Stereo is the purest 2ch path through the XMC-1, Mark does have a workaround for using a sub this way though in another thread

The refurbished(Trade In ?) unit I seen on their ebay store was $1450 and had the V3 HDMI board.

Chad

[audiobill]

My advice is to get a tube preamp with a robust power supply (character) with minimal processing (simple signal path), relay input switching (no contact resistance), and a high quality stepped attenuator.

The VTA SP-14 will get you all this at a reasonable price.

Otherwise, it doesn't really matter what you do, go for the most buttons, lights, etc. with zero resale.

(Dons flame resistant suit).

[Ex_Vintage]

Sept 6, 2019 10:38:12 GMT -5 geeqner said:

When you use "Reference Stereo" Mode - does it disable ALL other Outputs?

Anybody know if the "Factory Re-Furb" units that Emotiva is selling include the upgraded HDMI Board or not.

Any news on if newer / future HDMI ports will be "backwards compatible" with older versions, if you do not take advantage of the added channels?

Either way - I'd be using it with my relatively new XPA-2 which should have PLENTY of "punch" (although, I do realize that it's not quite up to the bar set by the XPA-1 and XPR series)

I am just in the process of setting up a refurbished XMC-1 from Emotiva. First impression (coming from a MC-700) was that the sound was more detailed in depth and sound stage with the XMC. I have only done basic setup because, so far the refurbished units do not come with the Dirac software (I am awaiting a response from Emo on that). I use it in a 5.1 system and for my first movie test drive, the sound was fantastic. My highest priority is like yours, in that I want a very good 2.1 system for a majority of music listening. That the xmc appears to do very well!

[Ex_Vintage]

Sept 6, 2019 10:38:12 GMT -5 geeqner said:

When you use "Reference Stereo" Mode - does it disable ALL other Outputs?

Anybody know if the "Factory Re-Furb" units that Emotiva is selling include the upgraded HDMI Board or not.

Any news on if newer / future HDMI ports will be "backwards compatible" with older versions, if you do not take advantage of the added channels?

Either way - I'd be using it with my relatively new XPA-2 which should have PLENTY of "punch" (although, I do realize that it's not quite up to the bar set by the XPA-1 and XPR series)

Yes, mine came with the updated HDMI board. It was also in impeccable shape, not a scratch on it.

[hsamwel]

I did own a XSP-1 gen 2 before. I liked it very much. Its build, features and sound quality was amazing.

However when I got my RMC-1 I felt that the Reference Stereo mode delivered an even better sound than XSP-1.
Especially the details was so much better on the RMC. Also felt I got a little more depth and 3D sense.

I haven’t heard XMC-1 but I can guess it’s pretty much on par with XSP-1 or slightly less capable in stereo.
If you feel you’ll ever have the need for more than stereo you should go for the XMC-1.
Also you have the choice of trying Dirac, if you have a complicated room.