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Post by bolle on Oct 2, 2019 9:14:17 GMT -5
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 2, 2019 9:19:31 GMT -5
How does the Topping sound for multichannel? 😉 Russ
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 2, 2019 9:22:03 GMT -5
How does the Topping sound for multichannel? 😉 Russ I wouldn't keep my hopes high at just $199.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 2, 2019 9:46:45 GMT -5
Topping *ALWAYS* wins at ASR. I wonder why that is...
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Oct 2, 2019 10:08:06 GMT -5
Topping makes some cute little gadgets.... and some of their DACs certainly perform well enough to sound really good. (And, if all you need is a simple stereo DAC, then they aren't a bad choice, and the XMC-1 would be pretty serious overkill.)
However, in all fairness, I doubt it can outperform the XMC-1 in Reference Stereo mode in any meaningful way.
(And, if you're comparing it to the XMC-1 in Stereo Mode, which includes all sorts of processing options, then the Topping is simply a no-show.)
And, yes, a product that is essentially a simple DAC chip on a board should perform very well.
A typical three-speed bicycle also out-performs a 2018 Ford Mustang.... - the bicycle costs less
- the bicycle is much quieter - the bicycle gets better fuel economy, produces less pollution, and has a much lower overall environmental impact)
- the bicycle is even healthier to drive - (and it takes a lot less space to store)
To be fair, I'm not sure about some of the quirks they said they found, but which we didn't see on our tests.
However, if you've ever actually listened to an XMC-1, in two-channel mode, I think you'll agree that it sounds pretty close to perfect.
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Post by bolle on Oct 2, 2019 10:14:39 GMT -5
Hi Keith, actually I didn´t mean to "diss" the XMC-1 here.
a) We are just talking measurements. b) Beating the M17 there is quite an achievement imho, that unit is more expensive and NAD is no slouch. c) I also expect a simple and 2-channel unit to be better. With regards to measurements. The XMC-1 is much more complex, a lot more stuff with interference etc.. I also didn´t say the DX3 Pro sounds better in Stereo than the XMC-1 - to me both sound very good. I just found it interesting how much better still you can get with a relatively simple unit regarding measurements.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 2, 2019 11:23:50 GMT -5
I think the main complaint was that the XMC-1 missed their spec of 0.00025% . It got 0.001% instead. T A similar test from home theater hifi got a similar missed spec result hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/processors/emotiva-xmc-1-processor-review/The linearity measurement was interesting. It seems like there is a MUTING circuit engaging. I recall there was a muting issue happening with the subs at one time. Not sure if this is related.
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Post by rbk123 on Oct 2, 2019 11:38:29 GMT -5
Something I've asked for before on that site was measurements on their lab power supply. Amir says that it shouldn't matter because a well engineered device should have no issues with dirty power. Sounds pretty subjective of him to decide what should and shouldn't be measured. I'd think the best approach is measure everything and let the data speak for itself.
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Post by audiobill on Oct 2, 2019 11:48:15 GMT -5
He also puts the Topping above the Schiit Yggdrasil and PS Audio Directstream.
So run out and buy a Topping, I'll pass......
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Post by garbulky on Oct 2, 2019 11:48:34 GMT -5
Something I've asked for before on that site was measurements on their lab power supply. Amir says that it shouldn't matter because a well engineered device should have no issues with dirty power. Sounds pretty subjective of him to decide what should and shouldn't be measured. I'd think the best approach is measure everything and let the data speak for itself. One time he did say he would provide them. But I guess he never got around to it?
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Post by garbulky on Oct 2, 2019 11:49:34 GMT -5
He also puts the Topping above the Schiit Yggdrasil and PS Audio Directstream. So run out and buy a Topping, I'll pass...... He also measured an on board headphone output from an HP laptop outdoing the Ygdrassil in measurements. I posted that this tells me all I need to know about using that specific measurement as a predictor of sound quality.
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Post by audiobill on Oct 2, 2019 11:52:17 GMT -5
I also understand that the bulk of his conclusions are based on solely measurements, with very little actual listening involved.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 2, 2019 11:54:43 GMT -5
ASR is a joke run by self-appointed "experts" with no real training int he field but with vested interests in certain brands and products. But that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
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Post by bolle on Oct 2, 2019 13:45:54 GMT -5
OMG guys - really? Measurements are just measurements. They help (because it is rather difficult to compare subjective impressions) but in the end they won´t tell you how something sounds. If someone is measuring all stuff in the same way, even if he is doing something wrong, those measurements are still comparable. From the reviews I read he is also judging based on measurements, not saying anything about the actual sound. So please keep to the facts you can compare and not some internet mumbo jumbo. audiobill: I bought a Topping, tried it out and liked it. You judge stuff you didn´t even try / personally know or do I understand you wrong?
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Post by mgbpuff on Oct 2, 2019 14:00:54 GMT -5
This Amirim guy is simply incompetent when it comes to testing. He apparently bought a bunch of testing equipment and set up a business. So he borrows equipment to test and concentrates on a product already discontinued. Don't waste your time with anything he says.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 2, 2019 15:04:46 GMT -5
OMG guys - really? Measurements are just measurements. T Measurements are not measurements when they are not done in accordance with industry standards. They are just data at that point, and have no real meaning.
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Post by brutiarti on Oct 2, 2019 15:30:36 GMT -5
I will have to get a Topping integrated to replace my entire rig
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Post by mauriceminor on Oct 2, 2019 17:20:19 GMT -5
OMG guys - really? Measurements are just measurements. They help (because it is rather difficult to compare subjective impressions) but in the end they won´t tell you how something sounds. If someone is measuring all stuff in the same way, even if he is doing something wrong, those measurements are still comparable. From the reviews I read he is also judging based on measurements, not saying anything about the actual sound. So please keep to the facts you can compare and not some internet mumbo jumbo. audiobill : I bought a Topping, tried it out and liked it. You judge stuff you didn´t even try / personally know or do I understand you wrong? Of the 170 + DAC's that ASR tested the PS Audio 'Perfect Wave' measured 10th From the bottom
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Post by audiobill on Oct 2, 2019 17:52:16 GMT -5
Maurice, I’m so disappointed in you. I’m very sure your Linkwitz speakers sound fabulous, but how do you think they’d measure?
I tend to listen with my ears more than my eyes.
Best,
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Post by mauriceminor on Oct 2, 2019 18:15:35 GMT -5
Maurice, I’m disappointed with you. I’m very sure your Linkwitz speakers sound fabulous, but how do you think they’d measure? I tend to listen with my ears more than my eyes. Best, Linkwitz measures his speaker designs for a flat response Car and Driver Magazine reported that the Audi A7 had excellent performance measurements However, they did mention that "the engine lacks aural excitement" What is most important to you ? A suivre
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