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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 12, 2019 15:32:08 GMT -5
Anyone have a chart or list of what the upgrade hdmi "2.0b" actually supports? I listed this in quotes, because as I'm finding out, even though the product is listed as hdmi 2.0b, I don't believe it actually meets spec. Even on the purchase page, it lists a bandwidth limit of 6gbps, where in fact the spec limit should be 14gbps (https://emotiva.com/products/hdmi-2-0b-video-upgrade-board-for-the-xmc-1) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0) . I'm having a heck of a time running 4k 60hz at any ycbcr variant. Has this been addressed or come up before? I guess if I had know this board was in fact NOT hdmi2.0b spec (seems more like 1.4b?) I wouldn't have laid down $500 bucks for it.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 12, 2019 18:37:57 GMT -5
Anyone have a chart or list of what the upgrade hdmi "2.0b" actually supports? I listed this in quotes, because as I'm finding out, even though the product is listed as hdmi 2.0b, I don't believe it actually meets spec. Even on the purchase page, it lists a bandwidth limit of 6gbps, where in fact the spec limit should be 14gbps (https://emotiva.com/products/hdmi-2-0b-video-upgrade-board-for-the-xmc-1) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0) . I'm having a heck of a time running 4k 60hz at any ycbcr variant. Has this been addressed or come up before? I guess if I had know this board was in fact NOT hdmi2.0b spec (seems more like 1.4b?) I wouldn't have laid down $500 bucks for it. I assume you’re talking about the XMC-1 V3 board? I don’t know where you’re getting you’re numbers, but it is totally 2.0b. It can pass 4K/60/DV/HDR/HLG (I believe HLG is the primary differentiator between 2.0a and 2.0b). It also passes the ATV4K cable test and DV/60 test. These things require close to the maximum HDMI 2.0 bandwidth requirement of 18Gbps. It also handles HDCP 2.2 which requires HDMI 2.0. So rather than rattling off some spec, what is it that you can’t do? Edit: The most common problem is cables, what are you using and how long? |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Oct 12, 2019 18:55:03 GMT -5
I’ve not had any problems sending 4K@60 4:2:2 which requires 17.8 Gbps. Maybe the OP’s HDMI cables aren’t capable?
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 12, 2019 19:27:16 GMT -5
Specs define what a thing can and can't do...but whatever. Mine can't do 4k60 at any color space or bit depth. Cable is fine, goes directly into the Tv and works 4k60 422 12bit depth. However nothing above 30hz at any bit depth or color space into the board. But to my point - why would they list that chart if the numbers they list are off? Also, guys, cables are the same as versions before, as long as they are "high speed", which has been recquired since 1080p was a thing.
the bottom one is a label certification for 48gb but not a standard. Think cat5 and 10gb ethernet. People like to tell you that "oh no, you need cat7 to run 10gb...blah blah blah" and it just aint true. Off the top of the dome, cat5e can do 10gbe up to like 50m
edit: just to be clear - high speed hdmi cable, 3 ft long. Doesn't work. Tried the same cables I have running into my TV that DO work straight into the TV at 4k60, but no go for the XMC ( these are quite long, but wall rated - cl3 I reckon?)
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 12, 2019 23:46:46 GMT -5
... Also, guys, cables are the same as versions before, as long as they are "high speed", which has been recquired since 1080p was a thing. ... the bottom one is a label certification for 48gb but not a standard. Think cat5 and 10gb ethernet. People like to tell you that "oh no, you need cat7 to run 10gb...blah blah blah" and it just aint true. Off the top of the dome, cat5e can do 10gbe up to like 50m edit: just to be clear - high speed hdmi cable, 3 ft long. Doesn't work. Tried the same cables I have running into my TV that DO work straight into the TV at 4k60, but no go for the XMC ( these are quite long, but wall rated - cl3 I reckon?)
Sorry, that is incorrect. “High speed” HDMI cables are not sufficient for 4K/60 with any kind of HDR. Also, your bottom “Premium Certified” cable does not refer to 48Gbps (HDMI 2.1), but rather 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0), this IS what you need. We have a whole thread here listing cables that have been tested with the new processors, and they have the same 2.0b board you’re using. I’ll try to find it and post a link. In the mean time, I use these because they work, they’re thin and easy to route, and they come in 1’ increments (I don’t like extra cable), oh there inexpensive too. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24187Edit: Here’s the HDMI Cable thread, it has cables that have been tried and worked with the new processors, and V3 board. Lots of choices, but virtually all of them are “Premium Certified” and that’s what you need. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/55536/best-hdmi-cables-xmc-rmc |
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 6:35:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but you are incorrect - if you read the certification process and specs, high speed does support 18gbps and there is not a new standard nor cable required for hdmi 2.0b coming from 1.X. The cert process is voluntary and only acts as a way to re-assure consumers (and make some dough). This is common in PC/electronics industries. There are also countless articles and confirmations of this (https://www.cnet.com/news/4k-hdmi-cables-are-nonsense/) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2017/06/16/upgrading-to-4k-hdr-tv-how-to-choose-the-right-hdmi-cables/#5d3ff308162d) (https://www.techhive.com/article/3330376/do-i-need-a-4k-hdmi-cable.html)
Also, and I've confirmed this myself, the same exact cables running from, say, my PC, into my TV work as expected and allow everything (not 4k60 444)
NOW - that being said, it is possible that the boards emotiva is using is slightly picky, slightly out of spec, slightly less "flexible". I'll grant you that and I ordered some monoprice certified premium cables last night and will update. Should this be necessary? Of course not, but I'm willing to give it a shot and will update when they come in.
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Post by ÈlTwo on Oct 13, 2019 7:49:08 GMT -5
The first two articles are two years old, and the third, and the accompanying chart, seems to indicate you would need premium, or possibly ultra premium, cable for your use situation. Is that what your current cables are?
Either way, it seems you have an issue; hope the new cables sort it out for you.
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 8:44:22 GMT -5
To be fair, hdmi 2.0b was released in March 2016, its all together an older spec BUT the hdmi 2.0 spec was released sept 2013 which included the 18gbps provision for the cables. As far as I understand it, ultra premium (probably better known as "48") is for the 2.1 48gbps spec.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Oct 13, 2019 10:09:26 GMT -5
At this point, countless members have successfully passed 4K with HDR10/HDR10+/DV up to 18.2 Gbps through the V3 board. Several members here have given their actual in-home experience with the V3 board, whether it be installed in the XMC-1 or the next generation XMC-2/RMC-1. I suggest the OP give Emotiva a call on Monday to sort out his situation.
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Post by davidl81 on Oct 13, 2019 10:37:15 GMT -5
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 10:42:39 GMT -5
I agree and had already emailed support before this thread and eagerly await their reply. You mention members have given their experience, and I am giving you mine. For some context, I opted for the home upgrade, but the flash borked itself so the whole unit went back to Emotiva about a year ago. I can only assume/hope it passed testing on their end before sending it back to me. Low spec 4k sources (lower refresh, or lower bit depth or lower color spaces) seem to work fine and I didn't really have access to higher end 4k sources until recently so I had no way of testing.
I stand by my assertion that this board does not meet HDMI 2.0b specs given the info I provided above.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Oct 13, 2019 11:29:20 GMT -5
I agree and had already emailed support before this thread and eagerly await their reply. You mention members have given their experience, and I am giving you mine. For some context, I opted for the home upgrade, but the flash borked itself so the whole unit went back to Emotiva about a year ago. I can only assume/hope it passed testing on their end before sending it back to me. Low spec 4k sources (lower refresh, or lower bit depth or lower color spaces) seem to work fine and I didn't really have access to higher end 4k sources until recently so I had no way of testing. I stand by my assertion that this board does not meet HDMI 2.0b specs given the info I provided above. I don't doubt you are having problems, which is why I suggest you "call" not "e-mail" and talk with Emotiva tech support, this will save you the time between trading e-mails with tech support. I do however stand by my assertion that members here aren't having problems passing full 4K@60fsp/18 Gbps video, and statistically I don't believe this to be luck. As for cables, "high speed" refers to a cable having a minimum capability of 10.2 Gbsp on up to 18 Gbps, but not required to go up to 18.2 Gbps. Which is why many "high speed" cables may be able to carry the full 18 Gbps, but not guaranteed. This is why 4K @24/30fps are able to pass 4K content because it doesn't surpass 10.2 Gbps. "Premium" means required to handle 18.2 Gbps. "Ultra High Speed" means at this time, "up to" 48 Gbps. If I missed it I apologize, but I don't recall reading exactly what HDMI cables you are using now. Like "davidl81" above stated, I'd be willing to bet it's your cables. PCMag has a really good article explaining what factors come into play, link below. www.pcmag.com/article/264371/slaying-the-cable-monster-what-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi |
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 11:49:00 GMT -5
Yah, sorry I think I mentioned it above but it got buried - suggested 18g premium cert. cables on order and I will try them and either way update when they come in (weds it looks like). But again, and I know this is annoying because I'm annoying myself at this point - BUT the same cables work straight into the TV at 4k60 422 (one redmere active, one just long cl3, some other high speed hdmi cables). I legit have maybe 20 hdmi cables on hand, I'm not hurting for cables. These same cables fail when going thru the XMC-1 unit - that is my point of contention and source of frustration.
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Post by klinemj on Oct 13, 2019 12:31:17 GMT -5
Yah, sorry I think I mentioned it above but it got buried - suggested 18g premium cert. cables on order and I will try them and either way update when they come in (weds it looks like). But again, and I know this is annoying because I'm annoying myself at this point - BUT the same cables work straight into the TV at 4k60 422 (one redmere active, one just long cl3, some other high speed hdmi cables). I legit have maybe 20 hdmi cables on hand, I'm not hurting for cables. These same cables fail when going thru the XMC-1 unit - that is my point of contention and source of frustration. Did you order 2 of the reco'd cables? One for source to XMC-1 and one from XMC-1 to display? As I am sure you know, length is a factor as is each link in the chain. Mark |
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Post by cwt on Oct 13, 2019 13:00:23 GMT -5
Yah, sorry I think I mentioned it above but it got buried - suggested 18g premium cert. cables on order and I will try them and either way update when they come in (weds it looks like). But again, and I know this is annoying because I'm annoying myself at this point - BUT the same cables work straight into the TV at 4k60 422 (one redmere active, one just long cl3, some other high speed hdmi cables). I legit have maybe 20 hdmi cables on hand, I'm not hurting for cables. These same cables fail when going thru the XMC-1 unit - that is my point of contention and source of frustration. There have been many hi speed cables found wanting passing 4k/60 greenpsycho ; how do you go sending a lower bandwidth 24p signal ? Ever since David Vaughn started doing some tests makes have been caught out ;length is paramount and active cables are no guarantee  heres a good read on the early situation ; www.soundandvision.com/content/ultra-hd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-round-2-which-cables-can-actually-pass-hdmi-20-page-2 |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 13, 2019 14:24:31 GMT -5
My XMC-1 was upgraded by Emotiva and has given me next to zero issues, I am using inexpensive, non active 18gbps cables from my local pro audio store. The lengths are 0.75 metres from sources to processor and 5.0 metres to the TV, refer gear list below. XMC-1's don't have video processing, they are pass through (unlike AVR's/ processors that do have video processing), and cable lengths are cumulative For example in my case I have 0.75 + 5.0 = 5.75 metres of cable. Connecting the 5 metre cables directly from the sources to the TV is not the same (ie; 5 metres versus 5.75 metres). I needed to upgrade the cable, what was an OK cable at 5 metres was not OK at 5.75 metres, HDMI is biatch like that.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by jamco on Oct 13, 2019 15:01:41 GMT -5
It appears that many companies that manufacture HDMI cables and devices have not passed the HDMI licensing specifications. Click on the link below, sort on Date Terminated and checkout the 2019 terminations alone. www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/adopters_terminated.aspxI had an intermittent HDMI issue and isolated the problem by taking my XMC-1 out of the picture. I confirmed the issue by testing the HDMI cable just between my Apple 4K TV to my Samsung UHD TV; the cable was the problem. In preparation for my highly anticipated XMC-1 to XMC-2 upgrade, last weekend I migrated to all HDMI Premium Certified cables. All inbound HDMI cables to the XMC-# are now 3’. |
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 17:26:13 GMT -5
Yah, sorry I think I mentioned it above but it got buried - suggested 18g premium cert. cables on order and I will try them and either way update when they come in (weds it looks like). But again, and I know this is annoying because I'm annoying myself at this point - BUT the same cables work straight into the TV at 4k60 422 (one redmere active, one just long cl3, some other high speed hdmi cables). I legit have maybe 20 hdmi cables on hand, I'm not hurting for cables. These same cables fail when going thru the XMC-1 unit - that is my point of contention and source of frustration. Did you order 2 of the reco'd cables? One for source to XMC-1 and one from XMC-1 to display? As I am sure you know, length is a factor as is each link in the chain. Mark Yup, the monoprice "premium certified blah blah blah" for 2 sources, and one longer one to the TV.
jamco are you saying you had issues with the XMC-1 as well? When you removed the xmc from the chain, did it work or no? |
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Post by greenpsycho on Oct 13, 2019 17:31:25 GMT -5
Yah, sorry I think I mentioned it above but it got buried - suggested 18g premium cert. cables on order and I will try them and either way update when they come in (weds it looks like). But again, and I know this is annoying because I'm annoying myself at this point - BUT the same cables work straight into the TV at 4k60 422 (one redmere active, one just long cl3, some other high speed hdmi cables). I legit have maybe 20 hdmi cables on hand, I'm not hurting for cables. These same cables fail when going thru the XMC-1 unit - that is my point of contention and source of frustration. There have been many hi speed cables found wanting passing 4k/60 greenpsycho ; how do you go sending a lower bandwidth 24p signal ? Ever since David Vaughn started doing some tests makes have been caught out ;length is paramount and active cables are no guarantee heres a good read on the early situation ; www.soundandvision.com/content/ultra-hd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-round-2-which-cables-can-actually-pass-hdmi-20-page-2 I'm not sure you you mean by your question re: 24p signal? If you mean how do I go testing 4k60 422, it can be configured fairly easily via the nvidia control panel. You can select res/refresh/color space/bit depth all independently and is a pretty great way to test all of this. I'm sure some purists might balk, but hdmi and hdcp specs are specs regardless of where its coming from and it should and must work with all validated equipment to call itself as such |
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Post by jamco on Oct 13, 2019 19:25:58 GMT -5
Did you order 2 of the reco'd cables? One for source to XMC-1 and one from XMC-1 to display? As I am sure you know, length is a factor as is each link in the chain. Mark Yup, the monoprice "premium certified blah blah blah" for 2 sources, and one longer one to the TV.
jamco are you saying you had issues with the XMC-1 as well? When you removed the xmc from the chain, did it work or no? No, the HDMI cable still had the issue. The point is, the intermittent issue presented as if it was a XMC-1, but that was NOT the case. |
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heres a good read on the early situation ;
