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Post by brutiarti on Nov 14, 2019 15:27:10 GMT -5
Don’t waste your time with the Gen3. I bought the DR1’s and they disappointed me. Bought Bryston monos and never looked back. If your electronics and speakers are really revealing I will go with the XPR’-1’s but the reliability can be an issue. If you have tubes or laid back speakers I will go with the Xpa-1’s gen2. If you wanna listen to the people that say that all amps sound the same get a Topping amplifier that fall in the wattage recommendation from your speaker manufacturer. Well good heavens I should hope your Brystons outperform the DR1s. They are how much more expensive? Something like almost 7Xs the cost of a DR1? I mean sure if I had $20,000 available I might go for them too. It's not about the money. The XPR-1's were much much better than the Dr-1's. But having one XPR-1 going bad after only 3 years, no thanks. I rather have 20 year warranty for a reference amplifier in my main rig.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 14, 2019 16:57:34 GMT -5
It's pretty simple actually; 1. XPA-1's are monobloc power amps. 2. XPA-2's are stereo power amps. 3. XPA-1's are fully balanced, discrete and quad differential. 4. XPA-2's are not fully balanced, discrete or quad differential. 5. Being monoblocks XPA-1's can take advantage of long balanced XLR interconnects and short speaker cables. 6. Being stereo amplifiers XPA-2's can not take advantage of long balanced XLR interconnects and short speaker cables. 7. Connecting an XPA-1 to a fully balanced, discrete and quad differential pre amp results in a complete circuit that is fully balanced, discrete and quad differential 8. XPA-2's can't do that no matter what they are connected to. 9. XPA-1's have their own power supply, in their own cases, they share nothing 10. An XPA-2 shares its power supply across both channels and the case. 11. Did I mention that XPA-1's are monoblocks and therefore earn the owner the right to be invited to be a member of the Secret Monoblock Society. 12 XPA-2's owners are not so lucky. I missed a couple; 13. XPA-1 Gen 2 can run up to 60 watts in pure Class A, front panel switchable. 14. XPA-2’s can’t, no switch. Cheers Gary Gary - Thanks for the running list. It's appreciated.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 14, 2019 17:11:30 GMT -5
The XPA-1 Gen2 is a fully differential amplifier - which uses two output modules in a bridged configuration. When operated in stereo, the XPA-2 is not fully differential, so has a slightly different set of distortion spectra. (I'm not going to get into the discussion about how audible that is in a particular situation.) I appreciate everyone's opinions. Amps get people fired up! I have really liked using the XPA-2 since I moved over to it from my XPA-5 to drive my mains. No issues with it and seems to have plenty of power. Outside of the obvious bragging rights of having monoblocks (and trust me there is a whole bunch of that in my thinking) is the fully differential amplifier, matched with my fully differential preamp, really going to provide an audible improvement or is it just more bragging rights? Trying to decide if the extra $1000 that will be coming out of my pocket will be worth it.
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Post by Cogito on Nov 14, 2019 20:25:23 GMT -5
It's pretty simple actually; 1. XPA-1's are monobloc power amps. 2. XPA-2's are stereo power amps. 3. XPA-1's are fully balanced, discrete and quad differential. 4. XPA-2's are not fully balanced, discrete or quad differential. 5. Being monoblocks XPA-1's can take advantage of long balanced XLR interconnects and short speaker cables. 6. Being stereo amplifiers XPA-2's can not take advantage of long balanced XLR interconnects and short speaker cables. 7. Connecting an XPA-1 to a fully balanced, discrete and quad differential pre amp results in a complete circuit that is fully balanced, discrete and quad differential 8. XPA-2's can't do that no matter what they are connected to. 9. XPA-1's have their own power supply, in their own cases, they share nothing 10. An XPA-2 shares its power supply across both channels and the case. 11. Did I mention that XPA-1's are monoblocks and therefore earn the owner the right to be invited to be a member of the Secret Monoblock Society. 12 XPA-2's owners are not so lucky. I missed a couple; 13. XPA-1 Gen 2 can run up to 60 watts in pure Class A, front panel switchable. 14. XPA-2’s can’t, no switch. Cheers Gary Great list. None of it should matter to the OP however. BOTH amplifiers have oodles of power (More than his current speakers could possibly handle). Both amplifiers have ruler flat responses. Both amplifiers have inaudible distortion. Both amplifiers have very different prices ($2198/pr vs $899). The $1299 difference buys a lot of content. Then again, if you buy audio equipment for the sake of the equipment, then your list might have merit.
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Post by Cogito on Nov 14, 2019 20:28:49 GMT -5
You’re correct all amplifiers sound identical. In the meantime I’ll stick with what I’ve heard. It's not whether or not they sound identical (Nobody is making that claim). The question is, does the OP really benefit from the supposed upgrade?
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 14, 2019 22:19:45 GMT -5
Great list. None of it should matter to the OP however. BOTH amplifiers have oodles of power (More than his current speakers could possibly handle). Both amplifiers have ruler flat responses. Both amplifiers have inaudible distortion. Both amplifiers have very different prices ($2198/pr vs $899). The $1299 difference buys a lot of content. Then again, if you buy audio equipment for the sake of the equipment, then your list might have merit. For fun...............mostly I have had an XPA-2 Gen 1 and an XPA-3 Gen which I sold and bought an XPA-5 Gen 1 to save space. I didn't notice much difference sound quality wise and I have a comfortable volume that I do not deviate from, hence a few more or less watts is irrelevant. All of them compared to the AVR amplification I had used previously was however a night and day upgrade in sound quality. More recently I added a pair of XPA-1L's for the FL and FR at which time I also took advantage of them being monoblocks and went for the long XLR interconnects and short speaker cables. The improvement, whilst not night and day, is quite noticeable (for stereo 2.1 music of course). The most obvious is the total absence of any noise, be that due to the gear itself and/or the connection methodology. The bottom line is, regardless of measurements, there is a sound quality improvement in my set up that wasn't achieved without moving to fully balance discrete quad differential monoblock amplifiers with their superior cable lay out. A concrete example, previously I had this intermittent noise (a quiet buzz), very rarely and only noticeable in quiet passages of music. Not at all annoying, and very infrequent, but noticeable nonetheless. When I moved to long XLR interconnects and short speaker cables plus the fully balance discrete quad differential monoblock amplifiers there was no more noise. I actually worked out that it was the ice maker in the fridge in the kitchen, hence the intermittent timing. There is far more to a monoblock upgrade than simple watts, distortion and other measurements, the whole installed package matters. Good power amps last a long time, more like decades than years. In that time I will never second guess myself, ever again, I never ask "the should I shouldn't I" question, it's done. Cheers Gary
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Post by garbulky on Nov 15, 2019 0:06:42 GMT -5
You mean the gen 2 and gen 3 right? I’ll respond later when I get a chance No, both Gen 2's. routlaw has an XPA-3 Gen 2 and the OP has an XPA-2 Gen 2. routlaw believes his XPA-3 G2 should sound similar to the OP's XPA-2 G2, which may be true but I seem to recall you once saying how the internals are pretty different (but I could be remembering incorrectly). Oh I see. I didn't read closely. The XPA-3 gen 2 is very different from the XPA-2 gen 2. The XPA-3 gen 2 is more similar to the XPA-5 and XPA-7 though it has less capacitance and power supply. The XPA-2 is very similar to the XPA-1 minus the class A switch and balanced monoblock optimizations. It's basically an XPA-1 repurposed to be a stereo amp. There is a difference though in the way the capacitance is used I think it's parralel vs series. The XPA-1 has 180,000 mf capacitance. The XPA-2 has 45,000 mf capacitance (but has about the same capacitors as the XPA-1 just wired differently). Both the XPA-2 and the XPA-1 have more output devices, power supply, capacitance, and class A power than the XPA-3 gen 2. I have heard the XPA-3 gen 1 and the XPA-2 and they sound different. The XPA-2 has a more extended low end with a bit more slam and a sense of speed in the dynamics. The XPA-2 gen 3 on the other hand is totally different looking. Its power supply is the size of I think two quarters (though it is very powerful). It also has very little capacitance (probably due to the nature of the power supply). It also has very little class A power to speak of. But its power supply is regulated. It had trouble performing well in Stereophile's tests when subjected to high power over a long period of time in a specific test. All of this wouldn't matter two hoots if it sounded GREAT. I've heard it and I thought it had the low end punch and slam and a sense of speed. But the natural tone and "relaxed" sound that all the gen 1 and gen 2 amps were able to produce was not present. It simply didn't sound as real as them. Note it didn't sound bad - Emotiva never made a bad amp (but imo this is their worst effort). A friend and I both preferred the bas-x A-300 to the XPA-2 gen 3 so that's about all I can say for that. If Emotiva had released two PA-1's stuck in one chassis and called it the XPA-2 gen 3, I would have been saying something completely different! (It probably would have been 10/10 in my book).
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Post by milt99 on Nov 23, 2019 20:35:28 GMT -5
I own these Emotiva amps. Including quiet operation, these are the vital specs to me. I love new & old school power amp design. I love these Emotiva designs for their old school fundamentals. According to Dr. David Rich the Class A\AB performance was not optimized. Much better in Class A mode as long as you don't exceed the wattage limit. XPA-1L Fully Balanced, Quad Differential. Single Gain Stage 90,000 uF of storage capacitance. 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 16 output devices\transistors
XPA-1 Gen 2 Fully Balanced, Quad Differential Single gain stage 120,000 uF of storage capacitance. 1200 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 24 output devices\transistors
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 23, 2019 21:46:48 GMT -5
I own these Emotiva amps. Including quiet operation, these are the vital specs to me. I love new & old school power amp design. I love these Emotiva designs for their old school fundamentals. According to Dr. David Rich the Class A\AB performance was not optimized. Much better in Class A mode as long as you don't exceed the wattage limit. XPA-1L Fully Balanced, Quad Differential. Single Gain Stage 90,000 uF of storage capacitance. 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 16 output devices\transistors XPA-1 Gen 2 Fully Balanced, Quad Differential Single gain stage 120,000 uF of storage capacitance. 1200 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 24 output devices\transistors Thanks. I ended up going with a pair of XPA-1s. Couldn't pass up the allure of being a monoblocks owner! Hopefully I can hear a difference in Class A, at the very least.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,222
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Post by novisnick on Nov 24, 2019 0:24:25 GMT -5
I own these Emotiva amps. Including quiet operation, these are the vital specs to me. I love new & old school power amp design. I love these Emotiva designs for their old school fundamentals. According to Dr. David Rich the Class A\AB performance was not optimized. Much better in Class A mode as long as you don't exceed the wattage limit. XPA-1L Fully Balanced, Quad Differential. Single Gain Stage 90,000 uF of storage capacitance. 450 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 16 output devices\transistors XPA-1 Gen 2 Fully Balanced, Quad Differential Single gain stage 120,000 uF of storage capacitance. 1200 VA heavy duty toroidal transformer. 24 output devices\transistors Thanks. I ended up going with a pair of XPA-1s. Couldn't pass up the allure of being a monoblocks owner! Hopefully I can hear a difference in Class A, at the very least. Welcome, your membership packet will be forwarded after confirmation of ownership.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 24, 2019 2:26:49 GMT -5
Thanks. I ended up going with a pair of XPA-1s. Couldn't pass up the allure of being a monoblocks owner! Hopefully I can hear a difference in Class A, at the very least. Welcome, your membership packet will be forwarded after confirmation of ownership. Excellent. They should be here Friday. I'll be sure to post visual evidence.
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 24, 2019 6:44:38 GMT -5
Thanks. I ended up going with a pair of XPA-1s. Couldn't pass up the allure of being a monoblocks owner! Hopefully I can hear a difference in Class A, at the very least. Congratulations, a very sound decision, one that is without regret for decades. Cheers Gary
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Post by milt99 on Nov 25, 2019 19:36:40 GMT -5
Thanks. I ended up going with a pair of XPA-1s. Couldn't pass up the allure of being a monoblocks owner! Hopefully I can hear a difference in Class A, at the very least. Welcome, your membership packet will be forwarded after confirmation of ownership. If I remember correctly, Paradigm S8s are nominally 92db efficient. Unless you really crank the SPL, the XPA-1s may not get out of Class A mode with the exception of brief transients. I'm positive you will like them though.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 26, 2019 0:12:02 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Paradigm S8s are nominally 92db efficient. Unless you really crank the SPL, the XPA-1s may not get out of Class A mode with the exception of brief transients. I'm positive you will like them though. Good memory. They are 91db efficient. I know they are a bit overkill for these speakers but I have plan for them a bit down the road when I move to some different speakers. But, I won't have the opportunity to buy the XPA-1s new in a year or two as I am now.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 26, 2019 0:59:23 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Paradigm S8s are nominally 92db efficient. Unless you really crank the SPL, the XPA-1s may not get out of Class A mode with the exception of brief transients. I'm positive you will like them though. Good memory. They are 91db efficient. I know they are a bit overkill for these speakers but I have plan for them a bit down the road when I move to some different speakers. But, I won't have the opportunity to buy the XPA-1s new in a year or two as I am now. No way my friend. It's not too much. Trust me. It's just right My speakers are also 90+db efficient. I've also heard XPR-1's with Paradigm reference signature S8's. They were fantastic on them too. Having said that, for the most part you'll be using about a watt of power. But, perhaps you'll see what I mean when you get them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 11:07:21 GMT -5
Now that the discussion is over & done, I'll add this- Anytime you can go monoblock, do it. Any time you can go mono and Class A, double do it. Nothing beats Class A
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Post by routlaw on Nov 26, 2019 12:24:26 GMT -5
I agree with Garbulky and texzick, my speakers are also 91 db efficient and sound great with the XPA-1's, but I'm still interested in the comparisons with DR-1's and why I ordered a pair. At the risk of beating a dead horse, everything else being more or less equal, I have yet to ever hear any set of speakers that did not perform and sound better with mega watt amps at least in the SS domain. That includes speakers that have a very benign load to drive too. I can't explain why this is but its something you can hear everytime, IMHO.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 29, 2019 15:23:04 GMT -5
UPS came nice and early. Now I have all day to tear my system down and reconstruct.
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Post by jdmusante on Nov 29, 2019 21:22:14 GMT -5
So I installed the two amps and only get sound out of one of them. Strangely, the 230v light is lit on the back of the amp that won't work.
I've tried: - changing out the speaker cables - changing out the power cord - the balanced rocker switch is set correctly - the amps are plugged directly into the wall.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I emailed Emotiva about it.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 30, 2019 1:08:12 GMT -5
So I installed the two amps and only get sound out of one of them. Strangely, the 230v light is lit on the back of the amp that won't work. I've tried: - changing out the speaker cables - changing out the power cord - the balanced rocker switch is set correctly - the amps are plugged directly into the wall. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I emailed Emotiva about it. Usually the obvious problem is that the balanced rocker switch is connected to RCA rather than XLR. Since you figured that out, it's possible you received a bad amp. Perhaps it's something simple like a fuse.
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