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Post by houston1 on Nov 5, 2009 18:14:54 GMT -5
BUMP. I don't want this thread to die. I want my DAC ;D
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Post by regulator on Nov 8, 2009 15:13:52 GMT -5
What is the latest on the DACS? Are we still looking at a release for the end of the year?
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Post by razel on Nov 9, 2009 15:39:55 GMT -5
Now I'm really interested. Your PS3 already has upsampling capabilities to 176k with different 'flavors' to choose from. Try listening to them before moving onto an external DAC. If you can hear or appreciate the difference, then you should try an external DAC. Connect your PS3 to your receiver by optical or HDMI. Check that your digital audio output (optical or HDMI) 88k/176k checkboxes are checked. Check your PS3 music output setting to 44k/88k/176k. Turn off all surround processing on your receiver. It should be 'straight' or 'pure direct' or similarly named setting. Then play a CD, WAV or MP3. With firmware 3.0 the PS3 will upsample all music. Your receiver should display that it's receiving 88k or 176k. You can then choose from 4 different types of bitmap settings (off/type1/2/3). These bitmap settings change how the CD/WAV/MP3's @ (mostly) 44k data is upsampled onto 88k/176k. Those upsampling algorithms along with better analog stages inside external DACs are where your money is going and where the difference lies. If you can hear the difference with the PS3 by experimenting with the different settings, you probably can enjoy external DACs. Assuming you can find the one that produces the sound you are happy with. I noticed the biggest improvement by simply upsampling to 176k. The improvements are more subtle changing bitmapping settings. If all cases, for me, it smoothed out the edginess and instruments were easier to isolate. The louder it got, the more obvious the difference and my music was more enjoyable. Less fatigue, I guess. Whatever it is, I was satisfied enough with the PS3, especially the quieter PS3 slim (compared to louder 2006 60GB), that I didn't bother with an external DAC. Have fun.
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Post by bearfan51 on Nov 9, 2009 16:23:59 GMT -5
Now I'm really interested. Your PS3 already has upsampling capabilities to 176k with different 'flavors' to choose from. Try listening to them before moving onto an external DAC. If you can hear or appreciate the difference, then you should try an external DAC. Connect your PS3 to your receiver by optical or HDMI. Check that your digital audio output (optical or HDMI) 88k/176k checkboxes are checked. Check your PS3 music output setting to 44k/88k/176k. Turn off all surround processing on your receiver. It should be 'straight' or 'pure direct' or similarly named setting. Then play a CD, WAV or MP3. With firmware 3.0 the PS3 will upsample all music. Your receiver should display that it's receiving 88k or 176k. You can then choose from 4 different types of bitmap settings (off/type1/2/3). These bitmap settings change how the CD/WAV/MP3's @ (mostly) 44k data is upsampled onto 88k/176k. Those upsampling algorithms along with better analog stages inside external DACs are where your money is going and where the difference lies. If you can hear the difference with the PS3 by experimenting with the different settings, you probably can enjoy external DACs. Assuming you can find the one that produces the sound you are happy with. I noticed the biggest improvement by simply upsampling to 176k. The improvements are more subtle changing bitmapping settings. If all cases, for me, it smoothed out the edginess and instruments were easier to isolate. The louder it got, the more obvious the difference and my music was more enjoyable. Less fatigue, I guess. Whatever it is, I was satisfied enough with the PS3, especially the quieter PS3 slim (compared to louder 2006 60GB), that I didn't bother with an external DAC. Have fun. Thanks for the explanation. The problem with that is, by using a digital output from the PS3, you are bypassing it's internal DAC, what you are hearing is from the receiver's DAC. Sure, you are sending the AVR an upconverted signal, and depending on if your AVR can handle those higher rates, the conversion is still happening inside the AVR. To do an honest comparison between the D/A capabilities of the PS3 and your AVR, you'll need to switch back and forth between the digital and analog outputs on the PS3. I have my doubts about upsampling.....If you start with a cd which is 44.1, you can't extract any more detail than what is there. It's like converting an mp3 to a wav. The 'damage' is done. We are beginning to see 24/96 music become available, (DVDA has been around a while) through downloads. That is where the DAC's will really shine, IMO. With cd's, the improvement I hear with a stand alone DAC, I think is more due to the more accurate clock. I'll stop there, because I'm reaching the limits of my understanding of the process. ;D
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Post by razel on Nov 9, 2009 17:16:45 GMT -5
The problem with that is, by using a digital output from the PS3, you are bypassing it's internal DAC, what you are hearing is from the receiver's DAC. Sure, you are sending the AVR an upconverted signal, and depending on if your AVR can handle those higher rates, the conversion is still happening inside the AVR. To do an honest comparison between the D/A capabilities of the PS3 and your AVR, you'll need to switch back and forth between the digital and analog outputs on the PS3. I have my doubts about upsampling..... With cd's, the improvement I hear with a stand alone DAC, I think is more due to the more accurate clock. Yes, By doing what I suggested, it's only comparing the digital upsampling algorithms of the DAC... not other portion which is the analog stage. It's still a good enough starting point for siccivic420 to see if a DAC is something worth further investigating without investing too much money/time. I too had my doubts about upsampling. Alot of work goes into converting a studio's high resolution master into a lower resolution CD and my intellectual, rational side says it's best to let that 44k data go to the analog stage without further modification. Funny how my ears preferred the upsampling. I probably just prefer the 176k digital path inside the DAC of my receiver. Luckily with higher resolution music becoming more readily available, we can get closer to those studio masters.
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Post by bearfan51 on Nov 10, 2009 19:51:06 GMT -5
Yes, By doing what I suggested, it's only comparing the digital upsampling algorithms of the DAC... not other portion which is the analog stage. It's still a good enough starting point for siccivic420 to see if a DAC is something worth further investigating without investing too much money/time. I too had my doubts about upsampling. Alot of work goes into converting a studio's high resolution master into a lower resolution CD and my intellectual, rational side says it's best to let that 44k data go to the analog stage without further modification. Funny how my ears preferred the upsampling. I probably just prefer the 176k digital path inside the DAC of my receiver. Luckily with higher resolution music becoming more readily available, we can get closer to those studio masters. Ahh, gotcha. I've been playing around with my Adcom dac today, I split the optical out of my HTPC, sent one feed to the dac, the other to my AVR, to compare. The AVR has a 24/96 dac, the adcom is 16/48. I would have thought, using a 24/96 rip from DVD-A, that the AVR would edge out the adcom. Nope. Much better analog section in the adcom. So I'll be on the list when the Emo dac is green lighted. Tomorrow I might have to compare the PS3 to the adcom, for s&g's. Any clue what the bitmap levels actually do? There's not a good explanation in the instructions. I had played with these settings quite a while ago, before I bought the DAC. I might even bust out the old-school analog cables for the PS3 to see what it's got for horsepower.
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Post by largactil on Nov 14, 2009 19:53:28 GMT -5
very keen for an update on this product - will grab a DACMagic if this does not eventuate soon...and then get the Emo one when it's out, compare the two, and sell the one I like less
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Post by fortysomethin on Nov 15, 2009 1:41:43 GMT -5
very keen for an update on this product - will grab a DACMagic if this does not eventuate soon...and then get the Emo one when it's out, compare the two, and sell the one I like less same here. I would love a DAC and XPA-2. My plan B is a USP-1 and XPA-2 with a MF V-DAC hidden behind it.
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Nov 25, 2009 16:24:04 GMT -5
It's almost December. Just curious about any updates. Thanks.
Mike
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Post by flamingeye on Nov 25, 2009 18:47:23 GMT -5
Wow mountable looks like a land slide
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 27, 2009 0:56:49 GMT -5
So, is a CD transport component also in the works as well to compliment the DAC?
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Post by littlesaint on Nov 27, 2009 11:04:57 GMT -5
So, is a CD transport component also in the works as well to compliment the DAC? Yes it's called the ERC-1.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 27, 2009 12:11:18 GMT -5
So, is a CD transport component also in the works as well to compliment the DAC? Yes it's called the ERC-1. No a dedicated transport, void of internal processing.
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Post by littlesaint on Nov 27, 2009 15:20:05 GMT -5
Yes it's called the ERC-1. No a dedicated transport, void of internal processing. The ERC-1 can be a dedicated transport. It wouldn't make much sense to build something else considering the cost and pairing it with this DAC is essentially the same as ERC-1.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 27, 2009 15:26:45 GMT -5
No a dedicated transport, void of internal processing. The ERC-1 can be a dedicated transport. It wouldn't make much sense to build something else considering the cost and pairing it with this DAC is essentially the same as ERC-1. A true dedicated transport will not have any processing or extra power supplies on board, and the end result is to try and lower the noise floor. For those who own an ERC-1 already there would be really no point to buy an external DAC in many cases. If Emotiva is going to build a seperate DAC, why not build a seperate transport too? Im still miffed why they didnt already include inputs to allow the ERC-1 to act as a DAC for other components(like say a CD jukebox changer)
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edmondwolfman
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Post by edmondwolfman on Dec 1, 2009 18:32:49 GMT -5
very keen for an update on this product - will grab a DACMagic if this does not eventuate soon...and then get the Emo one when it's out, compare the two, and sell the one I like less Brilliant minds...... I too have ordered a DACMagic and it should arrive tomorrow. I would be interested in comparing the emo dac to the CA DACMagic. One thing I see on almost all DACs is that you can only send 44k/48k files through the USB port and need to use S/PDIF to send the higher resolution files such as 96k. I did find a product that appears to be able to take whatever file resolution through the USB port and send on to your DAC but I haven't had time to really dig into it to see what it can really do. www.m2tech.biz/products.html
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Post by ripcordaff on Dec 1, 2009 21:32:21 GMT -5
Is it worrying anybody else that we haven't heard from EMO in quite a while on this issue? I thought that the original ETA was around Xmas time?
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Dec 1, 2009 22:40:51 GMT -5
Is it worrying anybody else that we haven't heard from EMO in quite a while on this issue? I thought that the original ETA was around Xmas time? Sorry I haven't jumped in here for a while. I have been completely swamped. I will have the final test samples right at the end of the month. So if all checks out as I believe it will, they should be in production right away. This final sample is also a cosmetic sample so it actually looks like the real deal and when it gets here, I will have Gunner take some pics for you guys.
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Post by ripcordaff on Dec 2, 2009 1:01:02 GMT -5
YESSSSSSSSS Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Cant wait for the pics!
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 2, 2009 2:26:50 GMT -5
Is it worrying anybody else that we haven't heard from EMO in quite a while on this issue? I thought that the original ETA was around Xmas time? Sorry I haven't jumped in here for a while. I have been completely swamped. I will have the final test samples right at the end of the month. So if all checks out as I believe it will, they should be in production right away. This final sample is also a cosmetic sample so it actually looks like the real deal and when it gets here, I will have Gunner take some pics for you guys. +1 For *bleep*
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