cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,907
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 19, 2022 12:11:23 GMT -5
As to Emotiva and HDMI, it's hard to say whether it's because they are not experts in the field or if it's due to the chosen chip set, or something else that may cause issues. Without hearing directly from them, it's speculation... I'll offer this... Emotiva uses the same Panasonic HDMI switches (MN864788) as Sound United. Sound United has been using this chipset for years (as have other manufacturers). I have had no HDMI problems whatsoever with my Marantz AV8805 and had no problems with the AV7703 that I owned before it. Honestly, I haven't had many problems with my RMC-1L, but that's not to say that it is as fluid, or rock-solid, as my 8805 or 7703. The difference here is that SU has a massive engineering and development team whereas Emotiva does not. I'm not sure who does their coding, but it's obvious that it's not done in-house. Sadly, the software that is running an otherwise fine piece of kit is also the loose brick that always brings the house down. Oddly enough, it's also the same HDMI chipset that is used in the MC-1. If the chipset were a bad choice, that wouldn't bode well for a brand new product. I think you see where I'm going here...  These other companies definitely have larger engineering teams and more resources. I don't know if Emotiva has an in house team, but I can tell you that I attended the last Emofest a few years ago and of course met Lonnie and another engineer (name escapes me now) who had set up some demo equipment. There were techs there also. It's definitely a small operation and if they have a software group, it may be one guy. So....outsourcing? Not sure. I've not had many problems with XMC-2 also....I recall the initial "slowness", which was sped up with a firmware update or two as well as the audio sync issue. For me, the last six to eight months or so has been pretty smooth. Getting back to the point...I'm sure the issues that are out there are software related. Question is what if anything are they doing to solve these problems now and in the future. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 19, 2022 13:13:00 GMT -5
I'll offer this... Emotiva uses the same Panasonic HDMI switches (MN864788) as Sound United. Sound United has been using this chipset for years (as have other manufacturers). I have had no HDMI problems whatsoever with my Marantz AV8805 and had no problems with the AV7703 that I owned before it. Honestly, I haven't had many problems with my RMC-1L, but that's not to say that it is as fluid, or rock-solid, as my 8805 or 7703. The difference here is that SU has a massive engineering and development team whereas Emotiva does not. I'm not sure who does their coding, but it's obvious that it's not done in-house. Sadly, the software that is running an otherwise fine piece of kit is also the loose brick that always brings the house down. Oddly enough, it's also the same HDMI chipset that is used in the MC-1. If the chipset were a bad choice, that wouldn't bode well for a brand new product. I think you see where I'm going here... These other companies definitely have larger engineering teams and more resources. I don't know if Emotiva has an in house team, but I can tell you that I attended the last Emofest a few years ago and of course met Lonnie and another engineer (name escapes me now) who had set up some demo equipment. There were techs there also. It's definitely a small operation and if they have a software group, it may be one guy. So....outsourcing? Not sure. I've not had many problems with XMC-2 also....I recall the initial "slowness", which was sped up with a firmware update or two as well as the audio sync issue. For me, the last six to eight months or so has been pretty smooth. Getting back to the point...I'm sure the issues that are out there are software related. Question is what if anything are they doing to solve these problems now and in the future. I agree... Right now, there are only three remaining issues (or absences) that are holding me back from putting my RMC-1L back in service. First, and foremost, the long overdue removal of Dolby's cross-mixing restriction. Second, the updated DSU code. And, third, the addition of DTS:X "Pro". My 8805 has all of this and I'll be sticking with it until my RMC does too. Hopefully, that won't be too much longer... |
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Post by thezone on Jan 19, 2022 18:28:21 GMT -5
The Vroom (or Vertex2) connects just like any outboard HDMI switch. Your sources (up to 4) connect directly to the device (you can add an external switch if more are need or connect them directly to the display and use ARC or eARC to send the audio back). The Vroom would connect directly to your display and use a dedicated "HDMI Audio Out" to pass the audio to your AVP or AVR. That would be the same concept as having split A/V HDMI outputs on most current 4K UHD Blu-ray players. For $549, you're 8K (HDMI2.1) compatible straight out of the box without having to do a thing to your processor or worry about what "new" headaches a new board might bring. Best of all, HDFury's support seems to be stellar and their products are top of the line. I'm fairly confident LCSeminole uses a Vertex2 (which is the 4K sibling to the Vroom) and can chime in with actual user experience...  EDIT: I should add, however, that gaining access to all of the "wonders" that these devices can do will require some education. Specifically if you want to get into EDID manipulation. Without gaining that knowledge first, you can just as easily make a bad situation even worse. Just like with anything else, that knowledge is gained through experience and/or through seeking advice from the knowledgeable who've been there before you. These devices can be intimidating, but can make your HDMI troubles go away if you want to dedicate the time to really learn the product. But that's also not to say that the product can't help you straight out of the box... You have a good point but this is one of the reasons I upgraded from a XMC-1 to a XMC-2 in the first place only to be disappointed that it works no better despite multiple firmware! doc1963 Avatar Jan 19, 2022 22:16:32 GMT 10.5 doc1963 said I’ll take it a step further… the 8K Vroom is $549 (not $800). How much do we think Emotiva’s HDMI 2.1 board will be…? My bet is that it will be about the same out of pocket cost. I live in Australia and with shipping and conversion its more than $800 in my Crocodile Dundee bux : ) |
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Post by msimanyi on Jan 28, 2022 15:22:16 GMT -5
I own both :-) ... What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!! I see you have an AppleTV 4k. Is that the newest version, released around March of 2021? Many of us have that latest generation and it's presenting clicks or ticks when the audio mode switches. If you have a gen 2, I'm curious if the HD Fury helps eliminate the audio mode switching issues. Edit: I meant to say also, I love that last "wishlist" idea. Vrroom for Emotiva would be fantastic... and a pretty cool marketing phrase! |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 28, 2022 17:52:59 GMT -5
I own both :-) ... What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!! I see you have an AppleTV 4k. Is that the newest version, released around March of 2021? Many of us have that latest generation and it's presenting clicks or ticks when the audio mode switches. If you have a gen 2, I'm curious if the HD Fury helps eliminate the audio mode switching issues. Edit: I meant to say also, I love that last "wishlist" idea. Vrroom for Emotiva would be fantastic... and a pretty cool marketing phrase! I see you've PM'ed me about this very subject. I've been on the road traveling for work this past week and have had very little time on the Lounge, so I thought I'd respond here. Initially when I first got the Vertex2, I had bought it on a whim and was just wanting to experiment and play around with it to see if would improve anything about my HDMI experience. I wasn't having any significant problems but was mainly wanting to see if I could improve switching speed, which I can say there is no speed difference. While I don't use ARC or CEC, I was able to consistently get these to work, though admittedly I am not a big fan of either since, IMO, since all manufacturers seem to program their own rendition or flavor of ARC/CEC. This causes incompatibility issues when mixing equipment and this wouldn't happen if there were strict universal code protocols that all home theater manufacturers had to abide by, so I stick to what has reliably worked for me, ie: Harmony. I've had some light sounding ticks/pops in the past using my ATV4K's(2017 & 2021) when scrolling through their UI's, especially when entering/exiting certain apps. I don't recall when I stopped getting these ticks/pops, but it could very well be when I added the Vertex2. I'll do some experimenting this weekend and connect the ATV4K straight to the RMC-1(without the Vertex2) in between and see if that brings them back, and I'll report back. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Jan 28, 2022 18:42:51 GMT -5
I own both :-) ... What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!! I see you have an AppleTV 4k. Is that the newest version, released around March of 2021? Many of us have that latest generation and it's presenting clicks or ticks when the audio mode switches. If you have a gen 2, I'm curious if the HD Fury helps eliminate the audio mode switching issues. Edit: I meant to say also, I love that last "wishlist" idea. Vrroom for Emotiva would be fantastic... and a pretty cool marketing phrase! Mine is not the Latest ATV. I do get a low click/pop when the movie starts, but it's a one and done thing. It's the same click/pop that I frequently get when I start any Digital Media. - Update - There is a click on the format change. I did a quick test and when just using the Sonos ARC, there is no Clicking even with the format changes. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Feb 2, 2022 7:22:52 GMT -5
I got the Vroom too and just run the audio out to the Emotiva. Not sure if I have things setup well or not as I used to get Atmos indicated on the XMC-2 but now just get PCM-2.0 kanuine care to share their EDID screen? and any other tabs where you changed things might be of interest. Im running a Plasma 1080P Panasonic non smart panel on the TX1 and BENQ W5700 4K PJ on TX0 Plasma is off at the time of these screen shots   |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Feb 2, 2022 16:32:35 GMT -5
I got the Vroom too and just run the audio out to the Emotiva. Not sure if I have things setup well or not as I used to get Atmos indicated on the XMC-2 but now just get PCM-2.0 kanuine care to share their EDID screen? and any other tabs where you changed things might be of interest. Im running a Plasma 1080P Panasonic non smart panel on the TX1 and BENQ W5700 4K PJ on TX0 Plasma is off at the time of these screen shots View AttachmentView AttachmentI don't have my Vrroom setup yet....I'm waiting on the Sony CEC fix. I recommend going over to the HDfury Discord channel and asking there. They reply very quickly. Usually you don't have to change many things unless your specific environment needs it. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 4, 2022 21:09:30 GMT -5
I own both :-) ... What I would absolutely love to see is them partner with someone like HDfury and have them design the board... Vrroom for Emotiva! That would be sweet!!!! I see you have an AppleTV 4k. Is that the newest version, released around March of 2021? Many of us have that latest generation and it's presenting clicks or ticks when the audio mode switches. If you have a gen 2, I'm curious if the HD Fury helps eliminate the audio mode switching issues. Edit: I meant to say also, I love that last "wishlist" idea. Vrroom for Emotiva would be fantastic... and a pretty cool marketing phrase! I have both the ATV4K(2017) and ATV4K(2021), and now that I've tried using them through the Vertex2 as well as directly into my RMC-1, I get the slight pops when the audio mode switches with both ATV4K's whether through the Vertex2 or directly into the RMC-1. I must admit I've grown used to the slight pops, that I just don't hear them anymore. So for me the Vertex2 really provides nothing, which is why I've now sold it and shipping it to it's new owner this weekend. |
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Post by msimanyi on Feb 5, 2022 23:10:30 GMT -5
Thanks for checking and reporting for us.
That’s the info I was expecting, though I thought there was a small chance it might help with the clicks.
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Post by texasninja956 on Nov 6, 2022 15:42:57 GMT -5
So has an hd fury product solved your all’s hdmi switching problems? Do you experience any of the other burps and bloops others complain about?
At this price point, the xmc-2 is really tempting. Heard two systems recently wirh dirac and I was just blown away. I already use an hd fury vertex for Lldv, so I might give this a try!
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Post by bitzerjdb on Nov 6, 2022 15:57:02 GMT -5
So has an hd fury product solved your all’s hdmi switching problems? Do you experience any of the other burps and bloops others complain about? At this price point, the xmc-2 is really tempting. Heard two systems recently wirh dirac and I was just blown away. I already use an hd fury vertex for Lldv, so I might give this a try! I use the Audio Output (HDMI) from my Vrroom to my RMC-1L and my HDMI switching issues are a thing of the past. I still get pops and clicks from format shifts, but in general it makes living with the RMC much easier. My biggest issue was that the HDMI board would not sync to some of my devices no matter what cable was used or what settings were changed. The HDFury stuff fixed those issues. |
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Post by texasninja956 on Nov 6, 2022 16:03:21 GMT -5
I might have to give it a shot! That’s really good to hear. I tried an mc1 and the bleeps or whatever were a little annoying but I was far more bothered by the hdmi syncing issues.
I have four sources (zidoo, atv4k, and a Sony and Panasonic bluray player). So I would basically plug the hdmi audio output of the hdfury to the input of an xmc-2 and the other hdmi out from the vroom to my projector? I don’t have a 4k120 or 8k source, so would I be better off getting the vertex 2?
I currently have my vertex synced with my harmony so it switches inputs nicely between sources with the activities I setup. I imagine I could do the same with a newer hdfury unit.
Do you hear bleeps when you fast forward content or only when you switch sound modes? I used to get it with both on the mc1.
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Post by bitzerjdb on Nov 6, 2022 18:49:17 GMT -5
I don't send Video to the RMC-1L. I don't have OSD but actually like it because I can change the volume without having it popup in a Movie. In my setup, the Inputs go to the Vrroom, the TX0 output goes to my Arcana, and that goes to the TV. The Arcana is in place because there is a compatibility issue with the Vrroom and my Sony TV (with CEC commands). The Vrroom has an HDMI Audio Out port, that goes to one of the Inputs on the RMC-1L. I only get pops and clicks when scrolling through previews or starting a movie (when the format changes). Once playing, it's fine. Starting and stopping the source is fine.
Again, my issue was that my two Tivo Bolts would not sync with the RMC-1L. I would get no picture or a green picture. It worked fine direct to the TV, but with the RMC in the middle, it refused to work. The HDFury Vertex2/Vrroom have been great. My HDMI sync issues are a thing of the past.
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 6, 2022 19:51:09 GMT -5
Ok a few bits to add
I got my Vertex2 here in Oz second hand (around aus$300)
As an experiment - 4 sources to it in order to help- rmc1 (HDMI switching); Epson projector (Dolby vision) mainly.
Setup was found at avsforum and confirmed at HDfury Discord channel. Audio only to rmc1.
Result is now I switch on a HDfury mobile app on my android phone via the Vertex2 with osd of the video signal on both the projector and zone 2 4k tv. Simple and easy.
Lldv (Dolby vision is a big upgrade with the right settings on some projectors including mine).
I'm not completely certain - but I think video not going the rmc1 and only through the Vertex2 is also a very slight improvement as well as the lldv effect.
The osd of the Vertex2 gives me all the info I need. I find OSD of the rmc1 telling me volume is not needed.
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Post by wizardofoz on Nov 7, 2022 8:25:58 GMT -5
I set the xmc2 to show input format like surround/atmos and it swaps to volume when I change that. I don’t miss the osd
Using VRROOM with ATV4k, firetv4k, a set top box 1080p and a chromecast ultra 4K too. 1080p out to plasma tv, 4K out to projector and audio only out to xmc2
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Post by webmst007 on Nov 7, 2022 15:01:30 GMT -5
I use a shield pro an oppo 203 a Fetch box ( Australian service streamer box ) and a Foxtel streamer (satellite streamer) with the Vertex2. I wanted to try this out with the cheaper model second hand- so it works well for me - very good switching and excellent video reproduction. Will consider a vrroom in the future but probably hold off on that until after the g4p upgrade.
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Post by thezone on Nov 7, 2022 16:57:47 GMT -5
I don't send Video to the RMC-1L. I don't have OSD but actually like it because I can change the volume without having it popup in a Movie. In my setup, the Inputs go to the Vrroom, the TX0 output goes to my Arcana, and that goes to the TV. The Arcana is in place because there is a compatibility issue with the Vrroom and my Sony TV (with CEC commands). The Vrroom has an HDMI Audio Out port, that goes to one of the Inputs on the RMC-1L. I only get pops and clicks when scrolling through previews or starting a movie (when the format changes). Once playing, it's fine. Starting and stopping the source is fine. Again, my issue was that my two Tivo Bolts would not sync with the RMC-1L. I would get no picture or a green picture. It worked fine direct to the TV, but with the RMC in the middle, it refused to work. The HDFury Vertex2/Vrroom have been great. My HDMI sync issues are a thing of the past. Are you saying that because you have a Sony TV you need 2 HDFury products to make it all work? |
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Post by millst on Nov 8, 2022 10:08:11 GMT -5
What's the switch time like on these products? Do any of them speed up the process of switching inputs? I remember researching switchers years ago that promised seamless/instantaneous switching, e.g. avoid EDID renegotiation, but they were cost prohibitive.
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Post by doc1963 on Nov 8, 2022 12:30:22 GMT -5
What's the switch time like on these products? Do any of them speed up the process of switching inputs? I remember researching switchers years ago that promised seamless/instantaneous switching, e.g. avoid EDID renegotiation, but they were cost prohibitive. Using two devices that actually like each other, I can't say that my Vertex 2 switched any faster than my RMC-1L or AV8805 did. If it does, it wasn't clearly noticeable. |
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