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Post by widespreadpanic on May 30, 2023 20:57:15 GMT -5
Howdy. I used to have the Maggie 1.7i pair of speakers. Had been listening to Klipsch 4.2's for decades and realized I had been missing out on something better. A few years ago I upgraded to the 3.7i's. Listened for a brief time and then moved stuff around and my system sat stacked on other unused stuff for several years. I just put it back into operation about a month ago. I've been listening intently and have been thinking the 1.7i's played louder. I sold those about 6 years ago but still recall the clarity and the volume level. My neighbors even commented they could hear me jamming out. I was reading a long thread on how the diaphragms need to be broken in and loosened. I thought maybe that was the issue. It also,seemed that one speaker plays louder than the other. I have noticed this when I am working and am listening to my MP3 with wired earbuds as well. I am 51 and assumed I have loss more hearing in one ear than the other. Today I started listening and I believed I wasn't hearing what I should be hearing out of these speakers. So I start inspecting the 3.7i's and what the heck?! The tweeter ribbon in one was not producing sound. Widespread Panic ensued! First thing that popped into my inadequate brain is how much it would cost to get it fixed. How much would the shipping be? Probably more than the fix, if I was lucky. But I would have to do it no matter. Luckily I still have the boxes. I started to inspect the speakers further and what are those attenuator thingies? What do they do? Why are they there? Is there some upgrade that would make the speakers sound different and/or better? There is also a fuse for the tweeter and one for the midrange. The midrange one is squiggly and seems thicker than the one for the tweeter, which is straight. Yep, they look intact, no type of burnt soot on the inside of a blown fuse. Then I start thinking system failure. I disconnect the speakers and slide them to opposite sides of the system and hook them up to the neighboring amp. Same problem, same speaker, same ribbon tweeter not playing a note. As I mentioned before I am getting old. I have finally come to accept this as my ears are not as discerning and my eyes are not as sharp. So I went to my PC desk upon which were sitting me readers that I purchased for less than $10 bucks at CVS. Again I looked at the fuses but this time with a small flashlight and I pried it out. Holding it up to the light while wearing my glasses I could see a break in the middle of the wire that seemed to create the smallest of gap in the middle of the fuse's wire. Okay! Instant relief but let's swap fuses from the other speaker to make sure. Wahoo! No messed up ribbon tweeter just a blown, or broken, fuse wire. Like I said it didn't look like it had blown but whatever, it was severed. I cut a short piece of coaxial, stripped it and bent it so it presses outward and connects securely where the fuse goes. Voila! Is this okay or a safe thing to do? Is there a better quality replacement set of fuses I could replace the factory ones with? Thank you kindly for your consideration. Adios
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Post by fbczar on May 30, 2023 22:51:31 GMT -5
Howdy. I used to have the Maggie 1.7i pair of speakers. Had been listening to Klipsch 4.2's for decades and realized I had been missing out on something better. A few years ago I upgraded to the 3.7i's. Listened for a brief time and then moved stuff around and my system sat stacked on other unused stuff for several years. I just put it back into operation about a month ago. I've been listening intently and have been thinking the 1.7i's played louder. I sold those about 6 years ago but still recall the clarity and the volume level. My neighbors even commented they could hear me jamming out. I was reading a long thread on how the diaphragms need to be broken in and loosened. I thought maybe that was the issue. It also,seemed that one speaker plays louder than the other. I have noticed this when I am working and am listening to my MP3 with wired earbuds as well. I am 51 and assumed I have loss more hearing in one ear than the other. Today I started listening and I believed I wasn't hearing what I should be hearing out of these speakers. So I start inspecting the 3.7i's and what the heck?! The tweeter ribbon in one was not producing sound. Widespread Panic ensued! First thing that popped into my inadequate brain is how much it would cost to get it fixed. How much would the shipping be? Probably more than the fix, if I was lucky. But I would have to do it no matter. Luckily I still have the boxes. I started to inspect the speakers further and what are those attenuator thingies? What do they do? Why are they there? Is there some upgrade that would make the speakers sound different and/or better? There is also a fuse for the tweeter and one for the midrange. The midrange one is squiggly and seems thicker than the one for the tweeter, which is straight. Yep, they look intact, no type of burnt soot on the inside of a blown fuse. Then I start thinking system failure. I disconnect the speakers and slide them to opposite sides of the system and hook them up to the neighboring amp. Same problem, same speaker, same ribbon tweeter not playing a note. As I mentioned before I am getting old. I have finally come to accept this as my ears are not as discerning and my eyes are not as sharp. So I went to my PC desk upon which were sitting me readers that I purchased for less than $10 bucks at CVS. Again I looked at the fuses but this time with a small flashlight and I pried it out. Holding it up to the light while wearing my glasses I could see a break in the middle of the wire that seemed to create the smallest of gap in the middle of the fuse's wire. Okay! Instant relief but let's swap fuses from the other speaker to make sure. Wahoo! No messed up ribbon tweeter just a blown, or broken, fuse wire. Like I said it didn't look like it had blown but whatever, it was severed. I cut a short piece of coaxial, stripped it and bent it so it presses outward and connects securely where the fuse goes. Voila! Is this okay or a safe thing to do? Is there a better quality replacement set of fuses I could replace the factory ones with? Thank you kindly for your consideration. Adios The terminal plate states a maximum fuse value of 5 amps Type 3AG ("normal" or "fast blow") for the midrange and 2 1/2 amps for the tweeter. The bass section does not require fusing protection. This fuse value should never be increased or bypassed. Do not use slow-blow fuses. BURNED OUT MIDRANGE OR TWEETERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. And there are fuse bypass kits from 11Stereo, if you are a risk taker, that likely improve the sound. |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on May 31, 2023 10:35:54 GMT -5
I too own the 3.7is. Going without the fuse is not a problem so long as you never have an unexpected surge of power. If you do, that cheap little fuse will cost you about $300 if I remember correctly. I had a strange situation in which my remote stuck and it turned the volume up and my wife could not get it to stop increasing. She did kill the power but not before the distortion hit the speakers. Luckily, that fuse blew and saved the tweeter. No other damage occurred. Phew.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 31, 2023 13:19:39 GMT -5
I once bought a pair of “broken” Maggies - turned out to be a simple fuse replacement.
Since the OP likes to “jam out,” fuses are mandatory.
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Post by leonski on May 31, 2023 22:21:11 GMT -5
In the 'world of Magnepan lore' the Ribbon is considered a fuse protector.
You are lucky to have the fuse work as intended.....
You might be expecting too much from your panels.....
Magnepan will sell you 'exchange' ribbon tweeters OR if you are ambitious, a Rebuild Kit which is good for 3 ribbons.....
CALL them since they are still working a 1970s business model in which 'The InterWeb' had not yet been invented.
Wendel may answer himself. It's that kind of place. While you're on the phone? You might arrange a time for the
'factory tour'......
Seems the fuse if 5 amps, AGC3, right?
IMO? You might try installing the 1ohm resistor to 'pad' the tweeter. this will lower its output a little and may act to save the fuse
You also may note a SLIGHT reduction in HF output.......
If you try that? either PM me or Marci or post back HERE......
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Post by leonski on Jun 1, 2023 13:56:39 GMT -5
Fuses:
There are 3 main types, IIRC, of cartridge fuse.
Fast Blow.....is VERY fast indeed and used for some kinds of very sensitive electronics.
I don't know that I've ever even seen one.
'Normal' is what most equipement has. A certain current overage is allowed for and a certain duration of that overage.
But should not pop at 100% of rating.....But duration drops as current rises above rating....
AGC means 'Automotive Glass Fuse' which is kind of funny today, since nobody uses 'em any more, having gone to the
smaller style with 'spades' that plug into a board.....
If these fail in your speaker? You are drawing more than fuse rating for several minutes. Or longer at levels just OVER
the rating.
I'm sort of surprised you haven't had problems with your ribbons.....I'd suspect but DO NOT EXPERIMENT that a lower
value would provide more headroom than the AGC type? But start with a 20% current derate....In NO case install
a slowblo in place of an AGC of the Same Current Rating.
Because vibration may play a role in this? I'd buy a set of Ceramic fuses (filled) of the correct rating.....They are less
prone to vibration failure.
Slo-Blo will sustain quite a surge without popping. Some power supplies may use these to get past startup.....
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 1, 2023 15:02:19 GMT -5
That pretty well sums it up... although I don't think I've ever seen a "super fast" fuse. These days most small equipment fuses are either considered to be "regular" or "slow". As you said, regular fuses should hold at their rated current, or blow pretty quickly if you go above it. (There are some other considerations - like the fact that they can eventually sort of fatigue if run right at their limit for a long time.) Most electronic gear does draw a turn-on surge... So most gear, including ours, uses what you would call "slow blow" fuses (usually stamped with "T" for "time delay"). Time delay fuses should tolerate considerably above their rated limit for a short time. Note, however, that a voice coil is a relatively thin piece of metal... Therefore I would ALWAYS use a regular or fast blow fuse in a speaker... And, if the speaker came with a fuse holder, always stick with the rating they specify... Remember that the power going to the speaker rises as the SQUARE of the current... (So a slow fuse that passes 200% of its rated current for several seconds is passing FOUR TIMES its rated POWER.) Fuses: There are 3 main types, IIRC, of cartridge fuse. Fast Blow.....is VERY fast indeed and used for some kinds of very sensitive electronics. I don't know that I've ever even seen one. 'Normal' is what most equipement has. A certain current overage is allowed for and a certain duration of that overage. But should not pop at 100% of rating.....But duration drops as current rises above rating.... AGC means 'Automotive Glass Fuse' which is kind of funny today, since nobody uses 'em any more, having gone to the smaller style with 'spades' that plug into a board..... If these fail in your speaker? You are drawing more than fuse rating for several minutes. Or longer at levels just OVER the rating. I'm sort of surprised you haven't had problems with your ribbons.....I'd suspect but DO NOT EXPERIMENT that a lower value would provide more headroom than the AGC type? But start with a 20% current derate....In NO case install a slowblo in place of an AGC of the Same Current Rating. Because vibration may play a role in this? I'd buy a set of Ceramic fuses (filled) of the correct rating.....They are less prone to vibration failure. Slo-Blo will sustain quite a surge without popping. Some power supplies may use these to get past startup..... |
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Post by leonski on Jun 1, 2023 16:50:04 GMT -5
That pretty well sums it up... although I don't think I've ever seen a "super fast" fuse. These days most small equipment fuses are either considered to be "regular" or "slow". As you said, regular fuses should hold at their rated current, or blow pretty quickly if you go above it. (There are some other considerations - like the fact that they can eventually sort of fatigue if run right at their limit for a long time.) Most electronic gear does draw a turn-on surge... So most gear, including ours, uses what you would call "slow blow" fuses (usually stamped with "T" for "time delay"). Time delay fuses should tolerate considerably above their rated limit for a short time. Note, however, that a voice coil is a relatively thin piece of metal... Therefore I would ALWAYS use a regular or fast blow fuse in a speaker... And, if the speaker came with a fuse holder, always stick with the rating they specify... Remember that the power going to the speaker rises as the SQUARE of the current... (So a slow fuse that passes 200% of its rated current for several seconds is passing FOUR TIMES its rated POWER.) Fuses: There are 3 main types, IIRC, of cartridge fuse. Fast Blow.....is VERY fast indeed and used for some kinds of very sensitive electronics. I don't know that I've ever even seen one. 'Normal' is what most equipement has. A certain current overage is allowed for and a certain duration of that overage. But should not pop at 100% of rating.....But duration drops as current rises above rating.... AGC means 'Automotive Glass Fuse' which is kind of funny today, since nobody uses 'em any more, having gone to the smaller style with 'spades' that plug into a board..... If these fail in your speaker? You are drawing more than fuse rating for several minutes. Or longer at levels just OVER the rating. I'm sort of surprised you haven't had problems with your ribbons.....I'd suspect but DO NOT EXPERIMENT that a lower value would provide more headroom than the AGC type? But start with a 20% current derate....In NO case install a slowblo in place of an AGC of the Same Current Rating. Because vibration may play a role in this? I'd buy a set of Ceramic fuses (filled) of the correct rating.....They are less prone to vibration failure. Slo-Blo will sustain quite a surge without popping. Some power supplies may use these to get past startup..... I seem to remember the Ultra Fast blo fuses in certain sensitive electronics.....Mission critial stuff..... Littlefuse publishes time/ current curves for all their fuses..... Link to GBB fuse series data.....Fast enough to save a magnepan Ribbon? Good Question! www.farnell.com/datasheets/2550095.pdf |
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Post by KeithL on Jun 1, 2023 17:03:06 GMT -5
250% overload for 1 second... that's 6x rated power through that fuse for one second. I would kind of expect Magneplanars to be more tolerant than regular drivers... because they have a lot of coil area... especially in the "tweeter". However I would still be VERY conservative in my choice. It's also going to matter exactly what frequency range the overload falls into... That pretty well sums it up... although I don't think I've ever seen a "super fast" fuse. These days most small equipment fuses are either considered to be "regular" or "slow". As you said, regular fuses should hold at their rated current, or blow pretty quickly if you go above it. (There are some other considerations - like the fact that they can eventually sort of fatigue if run right at their limit for a long time.) Most electronic gear does draw a turn-on surge... So most gear, including ours, uses what you would call "slow blow" fuses (usually stamped with "T" for "time delay"). Time delay fuses should tolerate considerably above their rated limit for a short time. Note, however, that a voice coil is a relatively thin piece of metal... Therefore I would ALWAYS use a regular or fast blow fuse in a speaker... And, if the speaker came with a fuse holder, always stick with the rating they specify... Remember that the power going to the speaker rises as the SQUARE of the current... (So a slow fuse that passes 200% of its rated current for several seconds is passing FOUR TIMES its rated POWER.) I seem to remember the Ultra Fast blo fuses in certain sensitive electronics.....Mission critial stuff..... Littlefuse publishes time/ current curves for all their fuses..... Link to GBB fuse series data.....Fast enough to save a magnepan Ribbon? Good Question! www.farnell.com/datasheets/2550095.pdf |
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Post by widespreadpanic on Jun 1, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -5
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 2, 2023 14:22:39 GMT -5
For some reason I didn't get a direct hit on that link (it went to the fuse page but said it didn't find an exact match). Just make sure you get "fast blow" or "fast acting" and NOT "slow blow" or (T) "time delay" and you should be fine. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 2, 2023 14:29:25 GMT -5
The one thing I would disagree with is the part about "bypassing the fuse likely improving the sound". While that MAY be true in SOME situations it probably isn't with Magneplanars. Fuses have a small amount of resistance... so they add a small resistor in series with the driver they are inline with... This can reduce the damping... and so reduce the ability of the amplifier to tightly control the driver... And this can be the case if you add fuses to protect a speaker that does not include built-in fuses. However this will only be the case if adding the fuse is "a modification" or "not part of the design"... In many speakers there are actually resistors in line with various drivers in the crossover... And the inductor usually included on the woofer also has some resistance... But, in these situations, the resistance of the fuse should have been "calculated in" and so is "part of the intended circuit design"... (There may be a few situations where the designers "sacrificed sound quality in return for safety"... but probably not many... ) Howdy. I used to have the Maggie 1.7i pair of speakers. Had been listening to Klipsch 4.2's for decades and realized I had been missing out on something better. A few years ago I upgraded to the 3.7i's. Listened for a brief time and then moved stuff around and my system sat stacked on other unused stuff for several years. I just put it back into operation about a month ago. I've been listening intently and have been thinking the 1.7i's played louder. I sold those about 6 years ago but still recall the clarity and the volume level. My neighbors even commented they could hear me jamming out. I was reading a long thread on how the diaphragms need to be broken in and loosened. I thought maybe that was the issue. It also,seemed that one speaker plays louder than the other. I have noticed this when I am working and am listening to my MP3 with wired earbuds as well. I am 51 and assumed I have loss more hearing in one ear than the other. Today I started listening and I believed I wasn't hearing what I should be hearing out of these speakers. So I start inspecting the 3.7i's and what the heck?! The tweeter ribbon in one was not producing sound. Widespread Panic ensued! First thing that popped into my inadequate brain is how much it would cost to get it fixed. How much would the shipping be? Probably more than the fix, if I was lucky. But I would have to do it no matter. Luckily I still have the boxes. I started to inspect the speakers further and what are those attenuator thingies? What do they do? Why are they there? Is there some upgrade that would make the speakers sound different and/or better? There is also a fuse for the tweeter and one for the midrange. The midrange one is squiggly and seems thicker than the one for the tweeter, which is straight. Yep, they look intact, no type of burnt soot on the inside of a blown fuse. Then I start thinking system failure. I disconnect the speakers and slide them to opposite sides of the system and hook them up to the neighboring amp. Same problem, same speaker, same ribbon tweeter not playing a note. As I mentioned before I am getting old. I have finally come to accept this as my ears are not as discerning and my eyes are not as sharp. So I went to my PC desk upon which were sitting me readers that I purchased for less than $10 bucks at CVS. Again I looked at the fuses but this time with a small flashlight and I pried it out. Holding it up to the light while wearing my glasses I could see a break in the middle of the wire that seemed to create the smallest of gap in the middle of the fuse's wire. Okay! Instant relief but let's swap fuses from the other speaker to make sure. Wahoo! No messed up ribbon tweeter just a blown, or broken, fuse wire. Like I said it didn't look like it had blown but whatever, it was severed. I cut a short piece of coaxial, stripped it and bent it so it presses outward and connects securely where the fuse goes. Voila! Is this okay or a safe thing to do? Is there a better quality replacement set of fuses I could replace the factory ones with? Thank you kindly for your consideration. Adios The terminal plate states a maximum fuse value of 5 amps Type 3AG ("normal" or "fast blow") for the midrange and 2 1/2 amps for the tweeter. The bass section does not require fusing protection. This fuse value should never be increased or bypassed. Do not use slow-blow fuses. BURNED OUT MIDRANGE OR TWEETERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. And there are fuse bypass kits from 11Stereo, if you are a risk taker, that likely improve the sound. |
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Post by leonski on Jun 2, 2023 23:08:23 GMT -5
The one thing I would disagree with is the part about "bypassing the fuse likely improving the sound". While that MAY be true in SOME situations it probably isn't with Magneplanars. Fuses have a small amount of resistance... so they add a small resistor in series with the driver they are inline with... This can reduce the damping... and so reduce the ability of the amplifier to tightly control the driver... And this can be the case if you add fuses to protect a speaker that does not include built-in fuses. However this will only be the case if adding the fuse is "a modification" or "not part of the design"... In many speakers there are actually resistors in line with various drivers in the crossover... And the inductor usually included on the woofer also has some resistance... But, in these situations, the resistance of the fuse should have been "calculated in" and so is "part of the intended circuit design"... (There may be a few situations where the designers "sacrificed sound quality in return for safety"... but probably not many... ) The terminal plate states a maximum fuse value of 5 amps Type 3AG ("normal" or "fast blow") for the midrange and 2 1/2 amps for the tweeter. The bass section does not require fusing protection. This fuse value should never be increased or bypassed. Do not use slow-blow fuses. BURNED OUT MIDRANGE OR TWEETERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. And there are fuse bypass kits from 11Stereo, if you are a risk taker, that likely improve the sound. Damping a Manepan driver is almost a non-issue. Just look at measured reactance data for the 1.6 or 3.6 both of which were covered in Stereophile. I don't know who else does such measures and publishes. Maggies generally work well with SS (high damping, mostly) and Tubes, which seldom have a DF greater than 5 or so..... I simplly can't imagine how much energy the ribbon stores! It has minimal mass and excursion. I also suspect the magnetic 'motor' is pretty brisk. That being said? 'LORE' says that removing all those connections helps. I don't have an exact number, but removing just the fuse and doing the rewire will save half a dozen or more connections....This for the 1.6 Getting rid of a bunch of little ring or spade connectors is a PLUS... I'd also add that WideSpread is NOT a candidate for this change since he has a known history of popping fuses. Me? I've never popped a fuse in my 1.6 so any proposed abbreviation of internal wiring should be fine. My original MG1 panels Did pop a few (1 1/2amp AGC) but that was clearly ME driving them beyond any rational limits.... That's the test, IMO. If you pop fuses, leave it alone. If you never pop a fuse in first year(s) of ownership? No problemo... For better bass and all-around performance? I think the MYE Stand would be worth investigating. |
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Post by leonski on Jun 2, 2023 23:25:35 GMT -5
I have the MG3.6 Crossover Schematic on aother page.
A few clarification?
First? MIDRANGE gets the 5amp fuse....
Tweeter gets the 2.5amp fuse.
The Mid / High portion of the crossover is INTERNAL to the panel while the low-pass is in the external box.
Mid / high is jumpered over.....
Bass driver is 3.9ohms +-0.1
Mid driver is 3.5ohms +-0.1
Tweeter is 3.0ohms +- 0.2
The tweeter circuit has jumpers for the 'tweeter attenuator' which I'd use IF I was popping tweeter fuses.
That is typically a 1 ohm ceramic resistor (not wire wound....)
If curious? go to Magnepan Users Group and go to Tweaks than Reference Schematics....
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Post by fbczar on Jun 6, 2023 15:43:39 GMT -5
The one thing I would disagree with is the part about "bypassing the fuse likely improving the sound". While that MAY be true in SOME situations it probably isn't with Magneplanars. Fuses have a small amount of resistance... so they add a small resistor in series with the driver they are inline with... This can reduce the damping... and so reduce the ability of the amplifier to tightly control the driver... And this can be the case if you add fuses to protect a speaker that does not include built-in fuses. However this will only be the case if adding the fuse is "a modification" or "not part of the design"... In many speakers there are actually resistors in line with various drivers in the crossover... And the inductor usually included on the woofer also has some resistance... But, in these situations, the resistance of the fuse should have been "calculated in" and so is "part of the intended circuit design"... (There may be a few situations where the designers "sacrificed sound quality in return for safety"... but probably not many... ) The terminal plate states a maximum fuse value of 5 amps Type 3AG ("normal" or "fast blow") for the midrange and 2 1/2 amps for the tweeter. The bass section does not require fusing protection. This fuse value should never be increased or bypassed. Do not use slow-blow fuses. BURNED OUT MIDRANGE OR TWEETERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. And there are fuse bypass kits from 11Stereo, if you are a risk taker, that likely improve the sound. One can theorize all they wish about what will or will not improve or degrade the sound of a speaker, but in the case of Magnepan fuses all you have to do is drop in a copper or silver bar and listen. And, with that in mind, many seemingly rational Magnepan owners who have listened after bypassing the fuses report that the sound is improved. Imagine, listening instead of theorizing! The risk and the expense of experimenting is minimal. By the way, Magnepan 3.7i"s also have steel jumpers that can easily, and cheaply be replaced. Given the esoteric nature of Magnepan speakers and the clientele Magnepan sells to, the real mystery is why Magnepan uses such cheap ferrous metal connectors, jumpers, etc. when almost all their customers would gladly pay for the very best. |
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Post by marcl on Jun 6, 2023 15:49:17 GMT -5
The one thing I would disagree with is the part about "bypassing the fuse likely improving the sound". While that MAY be true in SOME situations it probably isn't with Magneplanars. Fuses have a small amount of resistance... so they add a small resistor in series with the driver they are inline with... This can reduce the damping... and so reduce the ability of the amplifier to tightly control the driver... And this can be the case if you add fuses to protect a speaker that does not include built-in fuses. However this will only be the case if adding the fuse is "a modification" or "not part of the design"... In many speakers there are actually resistors in line with various drivers in the crossover... And the inductor usually included on the woofer also has some resistance... But, in these situations, the resistance of the fuse should have been "calculated in" and so is "part of the intended circuit design"... (There may be a few situations where the designers "sacrificed sound quality in return for safety"... but probably not many... ) One can theorize all they wish about what will or will not improve or degrade the sound of a speaker, but in the case of Magnepan fuses all you have to do is drop in a copper or silver bar and listen. And, with that in mind, many seemingly rational Magnepan owners who have listened after bypassing the fuses report that the sound is improved. Imagine, listening instead of theorizing! The risk and the expense of experimenting is minimal. By the way, Magnepan 3.7i"s also have steel jumpers that can easily, and cheaply be replaced. Given the esoteric nature of Magnepan speakers and the clientele Magnepan sells to, the real mystery is why Magnepan uses such cheap ferrous metal connectors, jumpers, etc. when almost all their customers would gladly pay for the very best. So here's the simple challenge ... have someone pull the bar out and put the fuse back in and see if the sound changes. I bet it won't. One time I just spun my fuses, making sure no oxidation was affecting the connection, and I was sure the sound improved. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't ... but the fuse was still there. |
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Post by leonski on Jun 7, 2023 14:11:08 GMT -5
You don't just 'replace' the fuse with a pure copper or whatever 'bar'......
You alter the internals and simplify the wiring. Doing away with a bunch of connections is the key......
If you just want a better fuse? No need to spend big bucks. Try one of the ceramic / filled type.
They are vibration resistent.
I don't know that Magnepan uses anything better than #16 hook up wire as the internal wiring.....
A real cost cutting move, IMO, which doesn't belong in anyspeakers selling for 2000$ on UP.....
The Jumpers that came with my panel are (were) Chrome Plated Steel. Magnetic!
I replaced them with lenghts of I think....#6 solid copper. This is a tick larger in diameter than the Manepan jumper and
I had to reduce the diameter with SiC sandpaper......by 'spinning'.
I will pull jumpers periodically and redo....since copper oxidizes and that can't be good......
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 7, 2023 15:06:24 GMT -5
Imagine.... a sighted test... where you make an intentional effort to change something that you expect will result in an improvement... and then you hear exactly what you expect to hear...  I'm not saying that it definitely won't make any difference... but, unless a double blind test was done afterwards, I don't think I would trust something so obviously susceptible to expectation bias either. I would also say that I am somewhat surprised that Magnepan would use steel jumpers... Not because I would expect it to sound any different... the resistance is negligible and we're not worried about the magnetic properties of a tiny little jumper... But because steel rusts... and is often annoyingly springy... and copper is at least a bit nicer in principle... and a jumper only costs a few cents either way. However I would note that the "cost" here is the cost of losing the protection the fuse offers. (A jumper is actually a few cents cheaper than a fuse... so clearly Magnepan considered those fuses to have a purpose.) I could also be really pedantic and suggest that, if the design was carefully calculated to include the resistance of the fuse, then you are ALTERING the design if you remove the fuse. To be quite honest I personally consider the whole question of "audiophile fuses" to be quite silly... And, just for the record, silver is about 5% better at conducting electricity than copper... But, from what I've read, the traces on the panels themselves are aluminum... which is much worse than copper... (They use aluminum because it weighs much less than copper.) So I guess that's why they weren't worried about the resistance in that tiny little fuse... .......................... One can theorize all they wish about what will or will not improve or degrade the sound of a speaker, but in the case of Magnepan fuses all you have to do is drop in a copper or silver bar and listen. And, with that in mind, many seemingly rational Magnepan owners who have listened after bypassing the fuses report that the sound is improved. Imagine, listening instead of theorizing! The risk and the expense of experimenting is minimal. By the way, Magnepan 3.7i"s also have steel jumpers that can easily, and cheaply be replaced. Given the esoteric nature of Magnepan speakers and the clientele Magnepan sells to, the real mystery is why Magnepan uses such cheap ferrous metal connectors, jumpers, etc. when almost all their customers would gladly pay for the very best. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,958
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Post by KeithL on Jun 7, 2023 15:10:20 GMT -5
Getting rid of connections makes more sense... Especially since most people do rebuilds on old speakers... and connections tend to get worse with age. And, yes, making sure the copper is shiny, or cleaning or replacing it periodically, is another thing that actually makes sense. You don't just 'replace' the fuse with a pure copper or whatever 'bar'...... You alter the internals and simplify the wiring. Doing away with a bunch of connections is the key...... If you just want a better fuse? No need to spend big bucks. Try one of the ceramic / filled type. They are vibration resistent. I don't know that Magnepan uses anything better than #16 hook up wire as the internal wiring..... A real cost cutting move, IMO, which doesn't belong in anyspeakers selling for 2000$ on UP..... The Jumpers that came with my panel are (were) Chrome Plated Steel. Magnetic! I replaced them with lenghts of I think....#6 solid copper. This is a tick larger in diameter than the Manepan jumper and I had to reduce the diameter with SiC sandpaper......by 'spinning'. I will pull jumpers periodically and redo....since copper oxidizes and that can't be good...... |
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Post by fbczar on Jun 7, 2023 20:38:25 GMT -5
One can theorize all they wish about what will or will not improve or degrade the sound of a speaker, but in the case of Magnepan fuses all you have to do is drop in a copper or silver bar and listen. And, with that in mind, many seemingly rational Magnepan owners who have listened after bypassing the fuses report that the sound is improved. Imagine, listening instead of theorizing! The risk and the expense of experimenting is minimal. By the way, Magnepan 3.7i"s also have steel jumpers that can easily, and cheaply be replaced. Given the esoteric nature of Magnepan speakers and the clientele Magnepan sells to, the real mystery is why Magnepan uses such cheap ferrous metal connectors, jumpers, etc. when almost all their customers would gladly pay for the very best. So here's the simple challenge ... have someone pull the bar out and put the fuse back in and see if the sound changes. I bet it won't. One time I just spun my fuses, making sure no oxidation was affecting the connection, and I was sure the sound improved. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't ... but the fuse was still there. Seems reasonable to me. Listening is always better than assuming. |
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