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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 12, 2023 12:09:51 GMT -5
Hi Lounge,
I just started having an issue with my SA-250 amp. I had it on for more than normal a couple of days ago and and it went into protection mode, flashing the indicator lights red. I checked everything and it didn’t seem hot, warm yes. I checked the connections, didn’t find anything and turned it back on. It has only lasted a minute or so each time before going into protection over and over. In that time, I’ve seen both lights flash and also the right channel on its own.
I unplugged everything, took it out of the shelf and let it cool overnight. I then turned it on with no connections and it stayed on. So I wired it up again and the problem came back.
Is there anything that I can do about this before looking into a repair?
Thank you all.
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Nov 12, 2023 13:51:14 GMT -5
Does it happen when the speakers are disconnected at the amp but inputs still connected? If you get a right channel indicator blinking you might try swapping the speakers connections at the amp and see if the blinking light switched to the left side or stays at the right.
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 12, 2023 16:05:10 GMT -5
That certainly sounds as if the amp. will need to go in for repair.
I would also say you are a braver soul than I…… Ever since I’ve been at this game I have NEVER Powered up an amplifier for any reason without making all the connections to everything speakers and components first. I believe that is begging for trouble, nor does it serve any useful purpose.
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 12, 2023 19:32:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I need to experiment a little more and I’ll get back. Just to clarify I’m only turning things on when various connections have been made or not made, no “hot” on the fly ones. I’m not sure it’s going to make a difference with respect to which channel might be the problem as mostly it quits on both. Maybe one is triggering the other and it happens almost instantaneously.
I’m wondering if having a look inside might reveal something. Possibly a fuse? Wishful thinking there. It’s going to cost a ton to get it to Emotiva, if they’ll even look at it. It’s a shame but I worry about these aging amps. I have a pair of XPA-1Ls and I did have to send one of those back a number of years ago. I hope they keep working!
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 12, 2023 20:52:54 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I need to experiment a little more and I’ll get back. Just to clarify I’m only turning things on when various connections have been made or not made, no “hot” on the fly ones. I’m not sure it’s going to make a difference with respect to which channel might be the problem as mostly it quits on both. Maybe one is triggering the other and it happens almost instantaneously. I’m wondering if having a look inside might reveal something. Possibly a fuse? Wishful thinking there. It’s going to cost a ton to get it to Emotiva, if they’ll even look at it. It’s a shame but I worry about these aging amps. I have a pair of XPA-1Ls and I did have to send one of those back a number of years ago. I hope they keep working! Wish I had something better to add but unfortunately I’ve never seen an amplifier exhibit what yours is doing and not need to go in for repair. Regarding my own, I need to keep my mouth shut and not brag…… Working like a charm but it’s old older than yours maybe tomorrow it will blow up. |
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Post by leonski on Nov 13, 2023 22:49:53 GMT -5
Worked....or at least stayed ON with nothing but power connected?
Connect stuff one at a time.....Say.....Speakers first. If it goes off? Swap L / R or just connect ONE (either)
If good with one......disconnect than connect the OTHER...
Take a meter to the speakers. Should 'ohm out' pretty close to one-another.
Check just the speaker.....and check with wire ....but not connected to amp.
BOTH dropping out sounds like a power supply issue of some sort......Though I think an amp module (when the right only...flashed)
a single channel problem could seem the same....
Any SMELLS coming from amp? Possible to unplug and a couple hours than pop the lid on the case looking for obvious stuff, like bulging caps
or burned anything?
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 14, 2023 1:34:38 GMT -5
Out of left field here. I don't remember if the SA-250 had the standard RCA connections like the Gen 1 XPA amplifiers did. If so, with heavy RCA cable connections it could break one or both of them. If it has the solid Tiff like connectors on the back. Then they are not the cause.
My XPA-2 had the upgrade done it years ago. My Brother uses the XPA-2 without issues today.
Why does any amplifier go into protection?
Typically due to an internal short assuming you have followed above posts and nothing is connected to the power amplifier except power, and it still goes into protection. DC offset being too high is another reason.
Either way yes, it requires attention from Emotiva to rectify of a qualified technician with the correct needed documentation to troubleshoot the amplifier to find the issue.
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Nov 14, 2023 11:23:20 GMT -5
Out of left field here. I don't remember if the SA-250 had the standard RCA connections like the Gen 1 XPA amplifiers did. If so, with heavy RCA cable connections it could break one or both of them. If it has the solid Tiff like connectors on the back. Then they are not the cause. My XPA-2 had the upgrade done it years ago. My Brother uses the XPA-2 without issues today. Why does any amplifier go into protection? Typically due to an internal short assuming you have followed above posts and nothing is connected to the power amplifier except power, and it still goes into protection. DC offset being too high is another reason. Either way yes, it requires attention from Emotiva to rectify of a qualified technician with the correct needed documentation to troubleshoot the amplifier to find the issue. It does have Tiffany style RCA inputs. |
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Post by leonski on Nov 14, 2023 13:52:52 GMT -5
geebo brings up an issue which is KEY. First? Will EMO still service? Few if ANY proprietary parts in this amp..... Second? Can you or your service guy get a proper schematic? And for vac? Sure.....a short. But if it happens in the power supply? You potentially have access to wall current which can be substantial for a very short time....This even typically lets the smoke out and CAN result in 'other bad things'...... A short in output devices? Pop a fuse in the PS which may NOT take other stuff along for the ride. A low current short? I don't know....but maybe won't even trip the protection. Input short? If these amps have 'a hsitory'? Check it out......I don't know typical, but are such connectors soldered directly TO a board or are they nutted to a panel and have short wires TO a board? LINK FROM HEADFI concerning TIFFANY style connectors......Wasn't what I thought it would be! www.head-fi.org/threads/tiffany-style-female-rca-jacks.96971/ |
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 14, 2023 14:59:47 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the extra help. I hadn’t checked back and was surprised to see this still going while I was making calls! Anyway, I spoke with Emotiva, and they do not service this amp anymore. They had a suggestion to go with an outfit in Austin I believe, Pyramid Repair.
In considering my options, I decided to pop the top of the amp and have a look. I was also going to take pictures to demonstrate the condition of the caps. I saw a fine layer of dust, so I got some compressed air and gave things a solid blast. I did see quite a bit of dust behind the amp when pulling it out of my shelf. Then I decided to test the rca connection, thinking that could be a worthwhile check. It worked! I left it on for 20 minutes and no problem. So I put it back into the XLR mode, and that worked for two hours before I sh** things off. I haven’t checked today but I’m thinking it will work.
I wanted to thank you guys for the help, report the good news, and possibly come to an explanation of what fixed it for others to try. Maybe the selection switches for rca or xlr need an occasional refresh? Maybe the bit of dust in there was doing something? I couldn’t see down the “blades” when I did that, so I don’t know if I dislodged something chunky, what I saw was typical fine dust. Interesting to speculate.
Let’s hear some thoughts. Thx
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 14, 2023 15:01:21 GMT -5
I missed the spell correction and I missed “shutting” which became **ing!
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 14, 2023 15:33:39 GMT -5
It's possible that it is still an intermiitent problem that will come back with time. However, maybe the layer of dust caused a heating issue? Or maybe just switching from RCA to XLR and back....? Is that a physical switch?
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 14, 2023 16:35:44 GMT -5
Switch, yes. Very small, metal slider. Seen on quite a few Emotiva amps.
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 14, 2023 17:06:27 GMT -5
I’m not sure it is heat because before I sprayed things off, the amp would go into protection in less than a minute, so really no chance to get properly hot there.
Incidentally, as a result of this, I’m moving the amp out of the main tv room and into another location which is more for dedicated listening. I’m going to switch it with a pair of PA-1s, which I’m thinking will be less susceptible to issues like going on and off a number of times a day and sometimes relatively frequently in a short period of time. I am suspicious that big class AB amps get “worn down” by this. The PA-1s are really great amps and the detail they provide is nice in an AV setting. Also my center is already a PA-1 so it’s probably best to have the front three the same.
Now that I’m thinking about it, maybe I should leave the PA-1s on all the time as they probably don’t consume much electricity even while on. I could also use auto sense but I have sometimes had them be a little reluctant to come on with a low but reasonable input. I just hate it when things break, especially when a little caution can prevent it.
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Post by leonski on Nov 14, 2023 22:25:38 GMT -5
In the location where the amp shut off? How much space above and ot the sides / back?
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 14, 2023 22:52:43 GMT -5
Switch, yes. Very small, metal slider. Seen on quite a few Emotiva amps. I’m wondering if maybe the switch didn’t fully engage? Moving it back and forth may have “fixed” it…..just thinking out loud… |
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Post by leonski on Nov 14, 2023 23:59:54 GMT -5
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Post by quattroll2 on Nov 15, 2023 0:27:01 GMT -5
Leonski, thanks for your input on this. The original location was on a shelf close to one side (maybe 1/2 inch), nothing on top of the amp with about 2.5 inches to the next (upper) shelf and 2.5 inches in back. The front and right sides are completely open. I’ve never felt more than just a hint of warmth coming from the amp, but I can’t reach the most recessed back side to be sure.
On the idea of the rca/xlr switches being the culprit, I do want to note that any degradation happened entirely on its own, I didn’t do anything that could have moved a switch even the slightest. Therefore I would also recommend the occasional movement of the switches to keep them making a good connection.
I’m just glad I figured this out before selling as is/ fixing it. I never did get to see if rca could work and not xlr. Maybe by having both you have a greater chance of one working? I’m not knowledgeable enough to know that.
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Post by leonski on Nov 15, 2023 2:10:30 GMT -5
That's how it works........a switch may OXIDIZE and not conduct electricity as well......problems!
They are self cleaning, maybe?
Also? such parts are rated in MTBF......Mean Time Between Failures.....But I don't know about a switch which
is essentially NOT used....
I recommend to all, an ANNUAL PM of the system where all plugs are exercised. Dusting is done.
Wood is oiled....where appropriate. Unplug from power....than plug back in. INSPECT for cracked
insulation on power lines and for frayed / exposed wires on Speakers. I let some go for a LONG time
and the copper oxidized (Awful Green Color) and the cables essentially FAILED in service. May have caused
an amplifier problem, but I don't know.....
Blue Jeans Cable make VERY good connections which exclude ALL air in the process. That's my next step,
if I get new speakers.......
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 15, 2023 8:09:18 GMT -5
Leonski is 100% correct on the possiblity of oxidation...I know on older equipment, cleaning and lubing the switches using Deoxit every once in awhile was/is a must.
But just moving them back and forth can clean them so they work correctly.
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