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Post by Nemesis.ie on Nov 24, 2009 10:43:44 GMT -5
Thinking about this, you would want to run all 5 channels as mentioned, but only have the output of 2 of them in-room for the measurement of how loud to go in 2-channel I think. (Yes, I probably think too much!).
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Post by 2infinity on Nov 24, 2009 11:02:50 GMT -5
Dann & Lonnie,
Thanks for taking the time to educate all of us on this issue, once again you guys show the reason so many of us will remain loyal customers: Unparalleled customer service! Seriously, where else do you get prompt and educated responses from a consumer electronics company?
Unfortunately, I feel like a geezer if I go to the mall and it is overcast here in good ol' central illinois today, so I think I will just pop in mallrats and eternal sunshine of the spotless minds as an alternative to Dr. Dann's prescription ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.
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Post by sergeantynot on Nov 24, 2009 12:24:09 GMT -5
I have never heard of any problem like this, nor have I experienced one. There were plenty of product posts from Emo explaining that due to the amp's A/B design, you would actually be gaining additional power from the unused channels. That's one of the reasons I use the UPA-7 to power all my rear speakers. When only using 4 channels, the channel power goes from 125wpc to 150 (give or take).
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Post by slbenz on Nov 24, 2009 13:02:24 GMT -5
an XPA-3 or XPA-5 or UPA-7 plays two channel music just fine. No problem. But the point Nick was trying to make on the phone yesterday was this: If you want an amp to run for just two channel music, GET A TWO CHANNEL AMP. That's what it's designed for. Why would you buy an XPA-3 or 5 for strictly two channel use? They have large power supplies, and multiple, smaller power modules. If all you're gonna do is run two channel music, and push it as hard as possible, eventually you'll roast the power modules. Again, if you've got a setup that is used partly for theater, and partly for music, that's fine. It will work fine. But if you're going to dirve the bejeezus out of your amp in two channel mode for hours and hours and hours on end, that's not the best case scenario. Get a dedicated two channel amp, with larger power modules. Dann, Thanks for the explaination and having Nick on the same page. It is very refreshing to see a company quickly and professionally address any concerns customers may have with any of their products. As a former owner of a military and medical grade power supply manufacturing company, I can attest to the problems one can encounter when power modules are overdriven beyond their design specifications. This unfortunately happened many times for my company during field use because the customer's power need requirements were grossly inadequate for their actual needs in the field. As you said, if you are a 2 channel user, then you should purchase a 2 channel amp or monoblocks to fulfill the need. But if you are a multi-channel user, then a multi-channel amp is the way to go. Let me just say that Nick was very helpful to me and my purchase with the XPA-5 over the XPA-2. I primarily listen to 2 channel with the occasional multi-channel needs. But because I wanted a multi-channel amp for active biamping purposes while using the extra channel for my center channel, Nick suggested I go with the XPA-5. In the two and a half months that I have owned the XPA-5, it never once was hotter than my Pioneer Elite AVR that is being used as a pre/pro. The XPA-5 in my opinion is worth every penny for it's price to hi-end sound admission and to put it in perspective, just one of my military grade power supply modules that put out 1K that I sold to the military cost more than 2 XPA-5 power amps combined. So I can't imagine it would cost that much to replace a power module in the XPA-5 if it did go out. For your information, when one of my power modules went out in my Parasound multi-channel amp earlier this year after almost ten years of use, it cost about $200 to replace the failing module. Same price for the Class D amp in my Velodyne HGS-12 subwoofer which failed five years ago. Thanks again for the clarification. Now it is time for me to go back to my XPA-5 and enjoy the sound it produces with my Magnepan IIIas. Cheers!
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 24, 2009 13:42:15 GMT -5
an XPA-3 or XPA-5 or UPA-7 plays two channel music just fine. No problem. But the point Nick was trying to make on the phone yesterday was this: If you want an amp to run for just two channel music, GET A TWO CHANNEL AMP. That's what it's designed for. Why would you buy an XPA-3 or 5 for strictly two channel use? They have large power supplies, and multiple, smaller power modules. If all you're gonna do is run two channel music, and push it as hard as possible, eventually you'll roast the power modules. Again, if you've got a setup that is used partly for theater, and partly for music, that's fine. It will work fine. But if you're going to dirve the bejeezus out of your amp in two channel mode for hours and hours and hours on end, that's not the best case scenario. Get a dedicated two channel amp, with larger power modules. Dann, Thanks for the explaination and having Nick on the same page. It is very refreshing to see a company quickly and professionally address any concerns customers may have with any of their products. As a former owner of a military and medical grade power supply manufacturing company, I can attest to the problems one can encounter when power modules are overdriven beyond their design specifications. This unfortunately happened many times for my company during field use because the customer's power need requirements were grossly inadequate for their actual needs in the field. As you said, if you are a 2 channel user, then you should purchase a 2 channel amp or monoblocks to fulfill the need. But if you are a multi-channel user, then a multi-channel amp is the way to go. Let me just say that Nick was very helpful to me and my purchase with the XPA-5 over the XPA-2. I primarily listen to 2 channel with the occasional multi-channel needs. But because I wanted a multi-channel amp for active biamping purposes while using the extra channel for my center channel, Nick suggested I go with the XPA-5. In the two and a half months that I have owned the XPA-5, it never once was hotter than my Pioneer Elite AVR that is being used as a pre/pro. The XPA-5 in my opinion is worth every penny for it's price to hi-end sound admission and to put it in perspective, just one of my military grade power supply modules that put out 1K that I sold to the military cost more than 2 XPA-5 power amps combined. So I can't imagine it would cost that much to replace a power module in the XPA-5 if it did go out. For your information, when one of my power modules went out in my Parasound multi-channel amp earlier this year after almost ten years of use, it cost about $200 to replace the failing module. Same price for the Class D amp in my Velodyne HGS-12 subwoofer which failed five years ago. Thanks again for the clarification. Now it is time for me to go back to my XPA-5 and enjoy the sound it produces with my Magnepan IIIas. Cheers! Yeah, the amps run really cool, overall, and work fine as you described. But Nick, more than anyone has seen some amp modules that are just being abused, when they come in for repair. Guys driving the amps to the limits, nonstop. That's why he said get the right amp for the job.
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Post by escape on Nov 24, 2009 17:29:21 GMT -5
(I am the original poster) I am glad to get all the clarification from eMotiva experts- Thank you! As stated in the beginning and as i explained well to Nick, I listen to music a lot but watch movies and TV also but primarily music which is why I wanted better amplification from an XPA-2 for L/R & XPA 5 for C/SL/SR for it. Buying XPA-5 instead of XPA-3 will allow me for my future expanasion to a dedicated Pre/Pro with 7 channels. I don't have the resources to keep changing AMPs more frequently.
But I never play music too loud - how do I explain this? i don't have a SPL meter. I will say in my Yamaha RX-V2300 receiver, i never go beyond -30DB (approximately 10 pm position on volume knob i suppose ). I wanted to upgrade straight to an XPA-2 because I believe, judging from what others are saying - the sound can be more richer with more low end without playing louder. Currently i have to play Rx-v2300 to above -40 range to hear good low end from my Paradigm Studio 100s. Plus I don't play music more than an hour or so in one sitting. So I don't see any reason to worry with my use of XPA-2 + XPA-5
The only problem i see with this approach is that when I play movie, the center channel will be drowned in front channel sound. Which is not good.. I need to figure out a good solution for this..
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Post by strindl on Nov 24, 2009 20:51:11 GMT -5
That's not a problem at all. As long as your center channel speaker is capable of keeping up with the front left and right, the XPA-5 will do fine with that center.
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Post by 2infinity on Nov 24, 2009 21:25:19 GMT -5
Strindl is right here,
you are only talking about 50wpc difference btwn xpa2&5 so your center channel wont be drowned out. Not to mention you have level adjustments for individual speakers to compensate, plus if you are worried about bass in surround, you SW will take care of that in most cases, not the L/R
Chris
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Post by glock3540 on Nov 24, 2009 21:54:48 GMT -5
Hi Guys, If anyone is interested, I just posted pics of my system in: Processors/Preamps :: what does your room look like with your emo gear? Blessings, Brian
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Post by escape on Nov 24, 2009 21:57:51 GMT -5
that settles all my questions then. Thanks to everyone who helped with answers. I got my first eMotiva product today. A pair of X-series Toslink cables!
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Post by nickwin on Nov 24, 2009 22:15:18 GMT -5
I still think it would be nice if this was explained in the item description, in the FAQ or at least in the manual. I can think of a number of circumstances where this info could be useful to a buyer deciding between different amp configurations, and not every potential buyer is going to stubble across this tread on the forum. A warning in the manual would also be nice, something like "this amplifier is more prone to damage when less channels are in use, use common sense when driving one or two channels at high levels"
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lonnie
Administrator
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OZ- 'Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'
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Post by lonnie on Nov 24, 2009 23:24:03 GMT -5
I still think it would be nice if this was explained in the item description, in the FAQ or at least in the manual. I can think of a number of circumstances where this info could be useful to a buyer deciding between different amp configurations, and not every potential buyer is going to stubble across this tread on the forum. A warning in the manual would also be nice, something like "this amplifier is more prone to damage when less channels are in use, use common sense when driving one or two channels at high levels" I don't see the need for a warning since our amps are no more prone to damage than any other amp on the market from any other company at any price. In fact our amps have proven themselves to be quite rhobust as our failure rates are less than 1% where industry standard is 10%. What we have been discussing here is basic amplifier operation for any amp from any company. The only reason we have been discussing it here is because we actually come on and discuss things. No other company will discuss this but it is true for all amps. We build the gear to be extremely tough. But if we were to build it so it could hold up even when abused, you couldn't afford it. Which is why no one else will build an amp that way either. All people have to do is use a little common since and their gear will last vitually forever. So relax, your good.
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Post by monkumonku on Nov 25, 2009 0:04:52 GMT -5
I still think it would be nice if this was explained in the item description, in the FAQ or at least in the manual. I can think of a number of circumstances where this info could be useful to a buyer deciding between different amp configurations, and not every potential buyer is going to stubble across this tread on the forum. A warning in the manual would also be nice, something like "this amplifier is more prone to damage when less channels are in use, use common sense when driving one or two channels at high levels" I don't see the need for a warning since our amps are no more prone to damage than any other amp on the market from any other company at any price. In fact our amps have proven themselves to be quite rhobust as our failure rates are less than 1% where industry standard is 10%. What we have been discussing here is basic amplifier operation for any amp from any company. The only reason we have been discussing it here is because we actually come on and discuss things. No other company will discuss this but it is true for all amps. We build the gear to be extremely tough. But if we were to build it so it could hold up even when abused, you couldn't afford it. Which is why no one else will build an amp that way either. All people have to do is use a little common since and their gear will last vitually forever. So relax, your good. That is true, Emo amps are no different than any other when it comes to the potential for damage that has been discussed in these threads. That is like in California before smoking was banned inside of buildings, places were required to post signs saying "warning, these premises may contain cigarette smoke." Duh, if there is no prohibition on smoking, then why have to post a sign like that?
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Post by strindl on Nov 25, 2009 0:14:15 GMT -5
The enemy of any electronic item is heat. Keep it cool and it's happy. I've been building my own computers for years and I always use a big case with lots of fans. I have never had a hardware failure in any of the computers I've built. They become obsolete first.
I take care to make sure all of my audio gear is well ventilated as well. I have fans installed in the enclosed shelving I use in my living room system to make sure cool air circulates. I use some Antec AV cooling platforms on top of any heat producing component that I want to stack another component on top of.
My XPA-1's and the 5 get warm on the top after they've been working for an evening, but they have never been hot..not even when driven hard.
The XPA-2 I just got a week ago is amazing temperature wise. I can have it powering my bedroom tower speakers for hours and the top is still cool.
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Post by slbenz on Nov 25, 2009 0:25:40 GMT -5
That's not a problem at all. As long as your center channel speaker is capable of keeping up with the front left and right, the XPA-5 will do fine with that center. Agreed. I have my Magnepan IIIa fronts biamped while my Eminent Technology LFT-XII powered by the remaining channel of my XPA-5 and do not have one problem hearing dialog.
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dbfan
Minor Hero
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Post by dbfan on Nov 25, 2009 2:24:39 GMT -5
As an owner of a XPA-3 I can attest to the abuse this multi-channel amp in 2ch can take. I play my music very loud and have never once thought to myself will this amp not handle the job. The best thing about the amp is its rated power in 2ch 250w pch (atleast it was stated on the XPA-3 page at one time) Speaking of heat output I doubt you could put a hearty steak on it to defrost at noon and be ready at dinner time ;D
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Post by 2infinity on Nov 25, 2009 8:43:35 GMT -5
As an owner of a XPA-3 I can attest to the abuse this multi-channel amp in 2ch can take. I play my music very loud and have never once thought to myself will this amp not handle the job. The best thing about the amp is its rated power in 2ch 250w pch (atleast it was stated on the XPA-3 page at one time) Speaking of heat output I doubt you could put a hearty steak on it to defrost at noon and be ready at dinner time ;D True that! Emo amps are the coolest running piece of equipment in my rack! My Marantz sr5002 gets easily 3 times as hot during playback. Even my BDP gets warmer than my XPA-5. And this is after really putting them through their paces in 2 & 5 ch listening. Granted I have never brought mine up to ear deafening levels (Thats not how I roll), but it was pretty darn loud! I agree with Lonnie totally! Sit back, relax and enjoy your gear, it is the most solid equipment I have ever owned at any price. Even if you listen to your gear really loudly, it is more likely that your ears will fail before your emo amp.
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Post by flamingeye on Nov 25, 2009 9:40:48 GMT -5
I still think it would be nice if this was explained in the item description, in the FAQ or at least in the manual. I can think of a number of circumstances where this info could be useful to a buyer deciding between different amp configurations, and not every potential buyer is going to stubble across this tread on the forum. A warning in the manual would also be nice, something like "this amplifier is more prone to damage when less channels are in use, use common sense when driving one or two channels at high levels" That`s just common sens don`t you think? I`m sorry and I do not me this in a offensive way , but I have some brain damage do to an accident and I no not to over drive an amp or use it in a way that it was not designed , It would take 20 pages or more for them to try to explain all the ways on how one could abuse an amp or miss use it , you truly can`t expect Emotiva to take responsibility to teach every prospective buyer on how to use an amp the buyer has to take some responsibility on knowing what there buying and how to use it that`s why they have support and contact us on there web site .
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Post by tchaik on Nov 25, 2009 9:53:15 GMT -5
thanks lonnie and dann g,
for your input. that gives me peace of mind that my temporary setup (with the xpa-2 running l/r and the xpa-5 running the 3 other channels until i get the umc/xmc this spring/summer) will be just fine.
i personally do not listen to music or movies at "uncomfortable" listening levels so i know that i will not be putting inordinate stress on the amps.
again thanks for the clarification.
tchaik..............
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elvis
Emo VIPs
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Post by elvis on Nov 25, 2009 10:08:37 GMT -5
Very interesting thread. I just hooked up my new XPA-3. Wow...what a difference a top-class amp makes. I am currently running 5.1, (XPA-2, XPA-3), but I thought long and hard about the XPA-5 just to have the 2 extra channels for 7.1 someday. In the end, I did not want to run a 5 channel amp in 3 channel mode for a year or more until I went to 7.1. After reading this thread, maybe I should have splashed out for the XPA5. Oh well...
If I ever go to 7.1, I will have to add another XPA-2. 3 amps sitting on the bottom shelf of my rack would look pretty impressive...
My next upgrade is a pre/processor, but my HT funds are depleated for the moment...
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