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Post by dcibel on May 3, 2010 3:49:12 GMT -5
Hello,
The UMC-1 is obviously the first unit I've used with this feature. I would like to open a discussion on Dolby Volume. Myself I think this feature is great and just awful both at the same time. Allow me to explain.
The fact that Dolby Volume normalizes everything, and I mean everything, to a relatively normalized level is just great. However, that's pretty much where it ends.
After the volume is normalized, it dose all this extra "processing" EQ stuff that you can't turn off even if you wanted to. The idea is good in theory, a modern take on the "loudness" button if you will, in a basic sense it automatically applies EQ based on the volume setting.
So what's wrong with that? Well, it is applying EQ based on the volume setting, but in reality it has no idea how loud the sound is at your ear. How could it? For this to work in the real world, the "processing" needs three inputs, gain of your amp, sensitivity of your speakers, and distance from speaker to ear. Only with that information can you determine how loud it is and make a real decision on how to change the sound to suit.
So here's what I am finding with Dolby Volume:
1. For the most part it sounds like my music is playing through a muffler a bit. Bass is bloated to say the least.
2. I can't honestly say I can tell the difference between the "low, med, and high" settings. Does anyone know what this is supposed to change?
All I want is everything to be the same volume without all the extra BS. Is that too much to ask?
Please add to this thread your thoughts and feeling of your Dolby Volume experience.
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Post by Topend on May 3, 2010 3:55:27 GMT -5
I'll leave it off.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on May 3, 2010 5:23:52 GMT -5
I use it for TV and it's nice not having to grab the remote to hit mute every time a commercial comes on. I turn it off for movies and music.
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 7:26:12 GMT -5
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Post by dcibel on May 3, 2010 11:36:19 GMT -5
Thanks for that, Markus. I hadn't found that post when using the search function.
My normal listening level is with the volume control at about 30, which seems to add about a 10dB boost below 200Hz. I find myself having to use the EQ to tone down the bass to a reasonable level. 10dB of boost is a lot. This of course only works at a specific given volume.
The fact remains, that there should be some user adjustment of what Dolby Volume does, as it has no idea how loud the sound is at your ear, and is just making arbitrary adjustments based on the volume knob setting.
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 12:42:12 GMT -5
The fact remains, that there should be some user adjustment of what Dolby Volume does, as it has no idea how loud the sound is at your ear, and is just making arbitrary adjustments based on the volume knob setting. That's what the level calibration menu is for. That way the UMC gets to "know" about the absolute level at your listening position. The problems I see are - UMC-1 level calibration is wrong (see emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=11134 ) - Dolby Volume EQ curves are wrong - Reference level only applicable to movie sound reproduction (there's no reference level for any other audio production process) Best, Markus |
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Post by dcibel on May 3, 2010 13:53:32 GMT -5
That's what the level calibration menu is for. That way the UMC gets to "know" about the absolute level at your listening position. It gets to know relative level between speakers at the listening position, not absolute. Like I said in the first post, absolute level can be mostly calculated with the following: -gain of the amp -sensitivity of the speakers -distance from speaker to ear With the info that you do input to the UMC-1, assuming the level calibration is accurate, it can assume relative sensitivity between speakers, since you can input the distance from speaker to ear. It still does not know the absolute sound level at your ear, which makes the contours that Dolby Volume applies arbitrary. Your link above does not work for me. Says "thread does not exist". |
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 16:33:24 GMT -5
It gets to know relative level between speakers at the listening position, not absolute. Of course. The idea is to set the UMC volume to a value that you want to be your reference level. Then go to the calibration menu and play back the calibration signal. Adjust the gain of your amps so a SPL meter (set to C-weighting, slow) at the listening position shows 75dBSPL. Best, Markus |
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Post by dcibel on May 3, 2010 18:19:28 GMT -5
That's a solid plan, except I don't have an SPL meter, nor does my amp have gain control. Just on/off switch.
Oh well, maybe I'll play with it some more tonight and see if I can make it sound decent. I'd really rather not give up the "everything is the same volume" feature, which both myself and my g/f think is pretty slick.
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 18:34:55 GMT -5
That's a solid plan, except I don't have an SPL meter, nor does my amp have gain control. Just on/off switch. Get a SPL meter at Radio Shack. If your amp doesn't have an adjustable gain then use the level controls in the calibration menu. |
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Post by m3adjuster on May 3, 2010 18:39:12 GMT -5
I just set up mine and pulled out my handy dandy SPL meter last night. I got mine years ago for about $29.95.
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Post by dcibel on May 3, 2010 19:55:37 GMT -5
No Rat Shack in Canada, it's called "The Source" now, and they don't sell an SPL meter. Looks like the cheapest one available now is a $30 unit from Parts Express, shipping extra. Will have to contemplate that one.
The other question that I have about this Dolby Volume, is does anyone know what the difference is between low, med, and high settings. Should I be able to tell the difference, because I'm not sure that I can...
FYI, I'm using the original v6 firmware at the moment, had to go to the store and get a USB cable to apply the beta code. Maybe tonight I'll try an upgrade, but it doesn't appear like any changes have been made to the way that Dolby Volume works or is implemented.
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Post by peppy on May 3, 2010 20:02:17 GMT -5
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Post by johnnyg on May 3, 2010 20:32:23 GMT -5
Of course. The idea is to set the UMC volume to a value that you want to be your reference level. Then go to the calibration menu and play back the calibration signal. Adjust the gain of your amps so a SPL meter (set to C-weighting, slow) at the listening position shows 75dBSPL. Best, Markus Given that the volume control affects the volume of the speaker calibration signals, where would one set the volume for the UMC-1 to output those signals at "reference" level? |
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 20:34:57 GMT -5
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 20:38:17 GMT -5
Given that the volume control affects the volume of the speaker calibration signals, where would one set the volume for the UMC-1 to output those signals at "reference" level? If your amp has no gain then you have to experiment with different level settings. Best, Markus |
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Post by johnnyg on May 3, 2010 20:53:37 GMT -5
Given that the volume control affects the volume of the speaker calibration signals, where would one set the volume for the UMC-1 to output those signals at "reference" level? If your amp has no gain then you have to experiment with different level settings. Best, Markus Maybe I didn't explain the problem very well. When you go into the UMC-1 speaker calibration menu and have it output the test tones, changing the volume on the UMC-1 changes the volume of the tones. But there is some point on the UMC-1 volume scale that Dolby Volume thinks is "reference". Where do we set the UMC-1 volume before adjusting the SPL meter reading to 75db? Whether we use amp gain or UMC-1 speaker trims is irrelevant, we have to know what at volume setting the UMC-1 considers its out to be at "reference level'. |
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Post by markus on May 3, 2010 21:36:31 GMT -5
Set the UMC's volume to 10. Then go to the calibration menu. Does your SPL meter read anything near 75dB? If yes, then use the level settings in the calibration menu to adjust each speaker exactly to 75dBSPL. If the SPL meter shows less than 75dBSPL then increase the UMC's level to 20 and repeat all steps. If it's still too low increase to 30, 40, 50, etc. - you get the idea.
When finished the level your UMC was set to when doing calibration is your reference level.
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Post by johnnyg on May 4, 2010 0:29:04 GMT -5
Set the UMC's volume to 10. Then go to the calibration menu. Does your SPL meter read anything near 75dB? If yes, then use the level settings in the calibration menu to adjust each speaker exactly to 75dBSPL. If the SPL meter shows less than 75dBSPL then increase the UMC's level to 20 and repeat all steps. If it's still too low increase to 30, 40, 50, etc. - you get the idea. When finished the level your UMC was set to when doing calibration is your reference level. But I don't want to calibrate to some arbitrary "my" reference level, I want the "UMC-1" reference level. Your technique will balance the speakers with respect to each other but does nothing for calibrating Dolby Volume. Let me demonstrate with an extreme example... Assume I have very efficient speakers and a high gain amp - maybe one with a volume control set to the max. After running through your method I calibrate to 75db at a volume of 10. Now assume that you, on the other hand, calibrate your inefficient speakers/low gain amp system to 75db at a volume of 70. Enter Dolby Volume... Listening to my system at 75db and DV on, it will likely boost the snot out of the bass and treble because it thinks we are listening at whisper quiet levels (10 on the dial). The result is poor sound. Listening to yoursystem at 75db and DV on, it will likely cut the snot out of the bass and treble because it thinks we are listening at ultra loud levels (70 on the dial). The result again is poor sound, but very different from my "calibrated" system. Therefore, there must be a volume setting on the dial that the UMC tells Dolby Volume is reference level, and calibrating at that setting is the only way to get proper Dolby Volume performance. |
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Post by markus on May 4, 2010 6:20:15 GMT -5
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