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Post by jasonb on Jun 14, 2010 4:55:50 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I am a newbie (from The Netherlands) on this forum. I do not own any Emotiva components, but I already have the EMO-virus. I am thinking of a two speakerset (B&W CM1) combined with Emotiva gear. Once a week a dvd, but every day I listen to CD or music DVD (stereo). The XDA-1 DAC will imo improve SQ out of my cable TV-receiver and for now I want to keep my NAD DVD player (connecting to XDA-1). Maybe later I will purchase a mediaplayer. There are a few combi I am thinking of: 1) XDA-1 + UPA-1 (2x) 2) XDA-1 + UPA-2 + USP-1 What will be the best choice (SQ) with B&W CM1's Thank you in advance for your answers! Ja(so)n
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Jun 14, 2010 9:48:14 GMT -5
The UPA-1's are going to be a bit better amp since they have the X module in them and are monoblocks.
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Post by CrazyBlue on Jun 14, 2010 13:15:45 GMT -5
I've never heard either, but I plan on going the digital source>XDA-1>UPA-1 route, based on reviews and SQ from my LPA-1.
The UPA-1's are said by those who own them and have done the comparisons to be second in 2-channel SQ only to the big boys, the XPA-1's.
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Post by jasonb on Jun 15, 2010 1:12:21 GMT -5
I've never heard either, but I plan on going the digital source>XDA-1>UPA-1 route, based on reviews and SQ from my LPA-1. The UPA-1's are said by those who own them and have done the comparisons to be second in SQ only to the big boys, the XPA-1's. So you are planning to use the XDA-1 as pre/pro as well. I wonder if more forum members have the same plan I also wonder if Lonnie (or beta testers) did test the XDA-1 as pre/pro in the test- and implementation period and what is their opinion Anyway; it will leave the option open to purchase a USP/XSP or even UMC/XMC later on.... (for now I am on a EURO budget. )
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Post by CrazyBlue on Jun 15, 2010 1:23:39 GMT -5
Earlier in this thread, Lonnie stated that they got the best sound going straight from the XDA-1 to the amps. The easiest way to discribe this is to start with the UMC and work our way up to the XDA. The UMC uses a similiar design principle that is used in Pro recording gear. The DAC is run wide open to get the best performace out of it. From the DAC it goes to some very high quality OPAMPs which are used as a gain stage. From there it goes to a digitally controlled, but still analog volume control. From the volume control it goes to another set of opamps which are used as buffers and then to the outputs. In the ERC the DAC is run wide open as well. The signal then goes to Burr Browns which are set up at buffers. From the buffers it goes to the discrete output stage. The discrete output stage is a beautifully simple design that uses a single dif input to a traditional VAS and output stage. Basically in terms of sound quality and performace it is a whole order of magnitude beyond that of an opamp. The XDA is our most advanced design to date. Although it uses the same DAC as in the ERC practically everthing else is all new. From the DAC the signal goes to set of Burr Browns which are used as buffers. From there is goes to the discrete output stages but these are completely different from the ERC. These are like a miniature version of an X series amplifier. They use dual differential inputs stages with cross-linked current sources which then goes to a Darlington VAS stage and then to a Darlinton output stage. So in terms of performace and sound quality, this is a whole order magnitude greater than the ERC. Hope this helps. P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting.
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Post by jasonb on Jun 15, 2010 2:26:28 GMT -5
The XDA is our most advanced design to date. ... So in terms of performance and sound quality, this is a whole order magnitude greater than the ERC. ... P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting. That sounds promising !!! I do not understand why there is a difference in connecting the XDA-1 direct to amp or connecting it to the analog input of the USP-1..... (what's happening in the USP-1). There's probably (for me) a too technical explanation Any concrete news about date of launch of the XDA-1 ?? Or Pre-order listing ?
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Jun 15, 2010 5:20:53 GMT -5
The XDA is our most advanced design to date. ... So in terms of performance and sound quality, this is a whole order magnitude greater than the ERC. ... P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting. That sounds promising !!! I do not understand why there is a difference in connecting the XDA-1 direct to amp or connecting it to the analog input of the USP-1..... (what's happening in the USP-1). There's probably (for me) a too technical explanation Any concrete news about date of launch of the XDA-1 ?? Or Pre-order listing ? From 6/11/10 VIP Forum post: "We hope to have them in your hands in about 45 days." Mike
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Post by jasonb on Jun 15, 2010 5:39:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the answers !!! 1,5 months to go.....
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Post by rockguitar on Jun 15, 2010 8:03:10 GMT -5
"I do not understand why there is a difference in connecting the XDA-1 direct to amp or connecting it to the analog input of the USP-1..... (what's happening in the USP-1). There's probably (for me) a too technical explanation " The simpler the path for the signal, the better. The less the chance of screwing up the signal. The output stage of the good DAC is similar to a preamp. Hence, adding a separate preamp isn't necessary and generally makes things worse in some ways if the direct connection from the DAC to the amp is sufficient. I've found that in terms of purity of sound and transparency and details, the direct connection from DAC to amp is the way to go, if the DAC is designed for it. You do get more drive and punch with using a preamp but you also lose out. ""Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
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Post by rockguitar on Jun 15, 2010 8:08:43 GMT -5
When I used to read the high end stereo magazines, one recommendation that stands out in my memory is to get a CD player or DAC from a company that makes good line stages (pre amps). That's because the proper design of the analog amplification section of the Cd player or DAC --- including the output stage of the DAC which Lonnie has referred to as being a mini X series amp, is just as important as the digital section.
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Post by jasonb on Jun 15, 2010 8:38:24 GMT -5
When I used to read the high end stereo magazines, one recommendation that stands out in my memory is to get a CD player or DAC from a company that makes good line stages (pre amps). That's because the proper design of the analog amplification section of the Cd player or DAC --- including the output stage of the DAC which Lonnie has referred to as being a mini X series amp, is just as important as the digital section. Thank you for your simple explanation, Albert..uhh....I mean Rockguitar !! I will keep my NAD DVD player; so I will be able to compare both DAC's. I really hope that the XDA-1 is much more better than the NAD-DAC !!!!
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jun 15, 2010 10:14:42 GMT -5
Beste Jan,
The UPA-1 is a superior solution vs the UPA-2. It's a little "X" model in reality, despite the "U" (Ultra series) in the name. The XDA-1 is also a "X" model.
So, XDA-1 & 2 UPA-1 is a no brainer. Use the balanced connections for optimal result.
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Post by CrazyBlue on Jun 15, 2010 10:40:02 GMT -5
The XDA is our most advanced design to date. ... So in terms of performance and sound quality, this is a whole order magnitude greater than the ERC. ... P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting. That sounds promising !!! I do not understand why there is a difference in connecting the XDA-1 direct to amp or connecting it to the analog input of the USP-1..... (what's happening in the USP-1). There's probably (for me) a too technical explanation Any concrete news about date of launch of the XDA-1 ?? Or Pre-order listing ? ...but as good as the (output) line stage is in the USP, the XDA by itself is way better. According to Lonnie, the difference lies in the output stage. The analog output section of the XDA-1 is better than the USP-1. I assume this means it will drive your amps cleaner and with more dynamics and seperation. This sounds logical to me; if a quality amp only amplifies an incoming signal, the better, clearer, and stronger that incoming signal is, the better the amp output will be.
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Post by jasonb on Jun 15, 2010 17:53:41 GMT -5
...but as good as the (output) line stage is in the USP, the XDA by itself is way better. According to Lonnie, the difference lies in the output stage. The analog output section of the XDA-1 is better than the USP-1. I assume this means it will drive your amps cleaner and with more dynamics and seperation. This sounds logical to me; if a quality amp only amplifies an incoming signal, the better, clearer, and stronger that incoming signal is, the better the amp output will be. [/quote] I wonder how many forum members are planning to purchase the XDA-1 ?! And how many of them will use it as a pre/pro ??
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Post by dsnyder0cnn on Jun 15, 2010 23:59:10 GMT -5
Hello, ...I wonder how many forum members are planning to purchase the XDA-1 ?! And how many of them will use it as a pre/pro ?? I plan to purchase an XDA-1 once it's available, and I'd kind-of like to use it as a Stereo pre/pro, but it will be part of the system that is currently controlled by the UMC-1, and since the XDA-1 looks like it will not include an analog "HT passthrough" like the USP-1 does, integration with the UMC-1 will be messy (involving moving cables to put the system into "Stereo only mode"). I'll probably hold out for an X-series preamp that hopefully has as robust an analog output stage as the XDA-1. Or, perhaps there will be an XDA-2 that provides for analog passthrough... But for folks who have a dedicated two channel system, the XDA-1 straight into USP-1's or XPA-1's via balanced cables sounds like the way to go! -- David
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Post by jasonb on Jun 16, 2010 1:12:52 GMT -5
I plan to purchase an XDA-1 once it's available, and I'd kind-of like to use it as a Stereo pre/pro, but it will be part of the system that is currently controlled by the UMC-1, and since the XDA-1 looks like it will not include an analog "HT pass-through" like the USP-1 does, integration with the UMC-1 will be messy (involving moving cables to put the system into "Stereo only mode"). I'll probably hold out for an X-series preamp that hopefully has as robust an analog output stage as the XDA-1. Or, perhaps there will be an XDA-2 that provides for analog passthrough... But for folks who have a dedicated two channel system, the XDA-1 straight into USP-1's or XPA-1's via balanced cables sounds like the way to go! -- David Hi David, maybe a bit off topic, but do you think that the balanced output (is it fully balanced??) will increase sound quality even if one (XDA-1) of both (XDA-1 + UPA-1) is not fully balanced Ja(so)n PS: Aside the "HT pass through" option the USP-1 has the option to have a 2.1 setup and a headphone output. For me those two options could be a reason to hook up a USP-1/XSP-1 in the future. Another possibility is to hook up a UMC-1/XMC-1 later on with the advantage to enjoy HD-SQ from bluray or SACD if you add a BR-player as well.
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Post by khonfused on Jun 16, 2010 4:34:51 GMT -5
Are you guys sure you can use a xpa-1 as a pre/pro connected directly into an amp? How will you controll the volume/gain?
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Post by jasonb on Jun 16, 2010 5:01:45 GMT -5
Are you guys sure you can use a xpa-1 as a pre/pro connected directly into an amp? How will you controll the volume/gain? From emonatics.com/XDA-1.shtml:Emotiva XDA-1 - High Performance External DAC Update: 2010-06-10Specs, per Lonnie: Frequency response: 5-50Khz S/N: in excess of 110db THD+N: 0.02% Ground floor noise: 10uV Output voltage: 1V nominal, 12V peak Lonnie has also reiterated that the XDA-1 connected directly to an amplifier provides the highest quality of sonic reproduction, if that configuration works in your system. Lonnie has given a time frame of 45 days. This would give us a delivery time frame of late July to early August, 2010. Estimated price of $299. Has full output attenuator (volume control) - preamp could be bypassed - a remote control is to be included for this purposeIt is 1RU (1 Rack Unit = 1.75 inches) in height Cosmetics are currently being updated from early test models Smaller black trim accessories are in the works for an all-black look Inputs (both) 1) AES/EBU 2) Coax Digital 2) Optical Digital 1) USB (Should be PC & Mac Compatible) Outputs 1) L/R Unbalanced RCAs 1) L/R Balanced XLRs (all outputs are hgh voltage) Triggers (automatic on/off for amplifiers and XDA-1 itself) 1) 12v output trigger 1) 12v input trigger Analog Devices AD1955 DAC, with 384k oversampling, and 1V rms (7V peak for extended dynamics), 24-bit, 192 kHz Sample Rate PCM Audio Data, 120 dB SNR/DNR (not muted) at 48KHz Sample Rate (A-Weighted Stereo), -110 dB THD+N (0.0003162%) Burr Brown buffers coming out of the DAC 6 fully discrete output stages Selectable inputs Segmented power supply The XDA uses a Dual dif input stage with crosslinked current sources, Darlington VAS stage and Darlington output stages, so the speed and current it can deliver is like night and day different from the ERC. So as good as the ERC sounded (and to be honest I thought it was amazing), the XDA is in a league all its own.
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Jun 16, 2010 5:41:54 GMT -5
If the XDA-1 DAC is also used to replace the USP-1 pre-amp (as is in my setup) I would connect my computer via USB.
What would be the best way to connect the Emotiva ERC-1 CD player to the XDA-1?
Computer source - USB input to DAC ERC-1 CD - ?? input to DAC
Mike
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Post by jasonb on Jun 16, 2010 6:33:35 GMT -5
If the XDA-1 DAC is also used to replace the USP-1 pre-amp (as is in my setup) I would connect my computer via USB. What would be the best way to connect the Emotiva ERC-1 CD player to the XDA-1?Computer source - USB input to DAC ERC-1 CD - ?? input to DAC Mike I believe that Coax is better than Optical, but know nothing about XLR or what so ever..... Any other thoughts by the more technical forum members / experts ?
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