DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 13, 2010 17:01:35 GMT -5
Isn't the USB standard still limited to 16/48 with standard drivers? Or was that just with USB 1.1? I know USB 2.0 can achieve much greater raw data throughput rates, but I'm not sure what the audio encoding is supported by the protocols these days...
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Oct 13, 2010 17:05:06 GMT -5
Just for clarification here the XDA will accept 24/192 via USB with no issues provided your computer will send that out. Eric had to download some third party software to get his computer to port out 24/192 but once he did the XDA picked right up on it and ran with no issues.  Interesting. Can I/we ask, what 3rd party software? Mike |
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Oct 13, 2010 17:10:12 GMT -5
...also for laptop streaming music: Pandora One v2.0 outputs at 192kbps*, so how would that work via USB to XDA-1? eg, would it work natively or need another app? Thanks, Mike * - per this FAQ blog.pandora.com/faq/contents/64.html |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Oct 13, 2010 17:53:23 GMT -5
Just for clarification here the XDA will accept 24/192 via USB with no issues provided your computer will send that out. Eric had to download some third party software to get his computer to port out 24/192 but once he did the XDA picked right up on it and ran with no issues. Interesting. Can I/we ask, what 3rd party software? Mike I'm leaving town early tomorrow morning for Denver, but I will send an email to Eric and have him post what he did.  |
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Post by mmeysarosh on Oct 15, 2010 10:40:28 GMT -5
Going back to the original post, The XDA-1 is a balanced device from the DAC chip on to the output stages. While you can use the HOSA cable, it won't provide the additional noise rejection that a balanced circuit could provide. It should lead to a device with reduced noise and better dynamic range with fully discrete output stages being able to exceed the required voltage and current requirements. If you have any reference recordings that are 24bit in word depth and 96Khz or more in sampling rate, the XDA-1 should be able to render them without limitation. The HRT might also be a capable device nearing this performance, but it usually required a well done balanced setup to do so. I do have doubts of the HRT being fully differential.
One thing to remember is that a balanced differential preamp/amp will also be desired for the XDA-1 to realize the output performance. In the Emotiva line, the XPA-1 is the only amplifier that meets that criteria. They currently do not have a balanced preamp and is part of the reason why the best sound quality would be achieved using XDA-1 to XPA-1 (or whatever balanced amp you prefer).
As for the Pandora One 192kbps. That has to do with the stream bandwidth. In sampling rate, it would be stated as 192Khz recording along with its bit depth (16-24 bits with todays modern tech). The recording are likely cd rates (16/44.1) using compression to stream at 192kbps. Not bad for streaming, but test have shown significant roll off above 16Khz and some harmonic loss at lower frequencies. The XDA-1 should render it as well as can be expected, but you don't realize its full performance with this kind of source.
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on Oct 15, 2010 10:51:56 GMT -5
Going back to the original post, The XDA-1 is a balanced device from the DAC chip on to the output stages. While you can use the HOSA cable, it won't provide the additional noise rejection that a balanced circuit could provide. It should lead to a device with reduced noise and better dynamic range with fully discrete output stages being able to exceed the required voltage and current requirements. If you have any reference recordings that are 24bit in word depth and 96Khz or more in sampling rate, the XDA-1 should be able to render them without limitation. The HRT might also be a capable device nearing this performance, but it usually required a well done balanced setup to do so. I do have doubts of the HRT being fully differential. One thing to remember is that a balanced differential preamp/amp will also be desired for the XDA-1 to realize the output performance. In the Emotiva line, the XPA-1 is the only amplifier that meets that criteria. They currently do not have a balanced preamp and is part of the reason why the best sound quality would be achieved using XDA-1 to XPA-1 (or whatever balanced amp you prefer). As for the Pandora One 192kbps. That has to do with the stream bandwidth. In sampling rate, it would be stated as 192Khz recording along with its bit depth (16-24 bits with todays modern tech). The recording are likely cd rates (16/44.1) using compression to stream at 192kbps. Not bad for streaming, but test have shown significant roll off above 16Khz and some harmonic loss at lower frequencies. The XDA-1 should render it as well as can be expected, but you don't realize its full performance with this kind of source. Thanks! Mike |
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Post by rixtergonzo on Oct 26, 2010 9:54:04 GMT -5
Just for clarification here the XDA will accept 24/192 via USB with no issues provided your computer will send that out. Eric had to download some third party software to get his computer to port out 24/192 but once he did the XDA picked right up on it and ran with no issues. Still waiting on an answer for what third party software was used. |
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Post by oscartheclimber on Nov 22, 2010 16:07:31 GMT -5
... and still waiting for the software answer ....
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 22, 2010 16:44:43 GMT -5
... and still waiting for the software answer .... Have you contacted Eric via e-mail or phone to ask him which software he needed to use with his PC to output a 24/192 signal? |
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Post by oscartheclimber on Nov 23, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
Have you contacted Eric via e-mail or phone to ask him which software he needed to use with his PC to output a 24/192 signal? Eric stated that on an internet connected machine, when the DAC is connected it will automatically find and install the necessary (24/192) driver. Then just use Foobar etc. Of course I can't help but wonder - is this a Mac vs PC thing? |
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Post by BTDT on Dec 1, 2010 19:34:52 GMT -5
foobar doesn't do 24-192 or even 24-96 natively it down or re-samples via SOX plug in (or another older plug in)
I'm near certain of this as I always use MediaMonkey to play hi-res in it's native format. It can be confirmed by looking at the DAC display if you have one.
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Post by MurphMan on Dec 10, 2010 11:16:06 GMT -5
Thought that I would share my impressions (mini review) in comparing these two DACs. I have had the HRT Music Streamer II for about 6 months, and have connected it to an old Mac Cube to drive my 2.1 channel system. The Streamer was a clear improvement over the low end Denon CD player & DAC from the Cube. The vocals and guitars were much more natural and well defined. The bass was fairly good, but a little loose. My biggest issue, that really stood out when listening at higher volumes, was that the high frequencies where not smooth. The high frequencies were an improvement and smoother than the prior sources, but sibilance was still annoying to me. The music that I play most is all ripped in Apple Lossless format.
The XDA-1 made an improvement. Not just in one area but several. None the less, the improvements were more subtle than the big WOW factor of adding the Streamer II for the first time. I set up both to feed inputs to a Revox B-286 preamp, and receive USB 1.1 outputs from the Cube. The sensitivity on the preamp was adjusted to match volume between the two by ear. Then I switched between the two to get instant impressions of the differences in the sound. What I heard first was the smooth high frequency response that I wanted from the XDA. Also, it was clear that the Streamer had a more forward and flatter sound stage, but both my wife and I noticed that the XDA was more laid back and had more depth to the music. (And she didn't tell me to turn it down, big plus +++!) That added depth from the XDA may be related to the improved separation that it provides to the instruments. Finally, being the bass aficionado in the family, I felt that the XDA bass response was both stronger and tighter than the Streamer could reproduce.
So the XDA is a clear winner in my set up. Since the wow factor was lower than I hoped, I'll be hesitant to upgrade the DAC further though.
Some other observations. The Streamer is recognized by the default Apple drivers in "Audio MIDI Setup" as capable of 24 bit/ 96KHz. I have to operate it at 24 bit/ 44KHz for smooth playing, probably because the 1.1 USB is a little too slow to play the 96KHz rate well. None the less, the Streamer sounds smoother when "Audio MIDI Setup" is set to 24 bit rather than 16 bit. The XDA-1 on the other hand is only capable of 16 bit output with the default drivers and 44 or 48KHz.
Lonnie and Eric, Any word on alternative drivers for OSX? I would love to try 24 bit output to see if it makes a difference.
Also, I did try connecting the XDA-1 direct to my XPA-3 amp for some 2.0 testing. Going back and forth between the 2.0 set up:
XDA-1 > RCA > XPA-3, or
XDA-1 > RCA > B-286 > XPA-3
seemed to make little difference. So I'll leave the preamp in the system for the analog inputs and occasional FM use.
Best Regards,
Murph
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Post by bobbyt on Feb 18, 2011 4:04:31 GMT -5
Just got my XDA home last night and haven't had a ton of time to play with it, but I did get kernel streaming to work in Foobar via USB.
I was not able to get 24 bit depth to work though--I'd love to know which 3rd party drivers work.
Also, Murph, as far as "leaving the preamp in the system", you already have a preamp in the system, since that's half of the XDA. If you turn it to 80 to drive another preamp, you're still running it through 2 preamps.
Unless you're using a very high dollar preamp, you're almost certainly making yourself worse off (and even if you are using a very nice preamp, I doubt you'll see much improvement since you're still going through the XDA's).
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Post by mohaukachi on Feb 18, 2011 17:23:38 GMT -5
i'm having the same issue with USB on my iMac. it caps out at 48.1. this wouldn't be an issue if the optical connection would send 192, but it stops at 96. i don't have much music at this bit rate, but i really want this to work on principle.
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Post by mohaukachi on Feb 18, 2011 17:26:40 GMT -5
Just got my XDA home last night and haven't had a ton of time to play with it, but I did get kernel streaming to work in Foobar via USB. I was not able to get 24 bit depth to work though--I'd love to know which 3rd party drivers work. Also, Murph, as far as "leaving the preamp in the system", you already have a preamp in the system, since that's half of the XDA. If you turn it to 80 to drive another preamp, you're still running it through 2 preamps. Unless you're using a very high dollar preamp, you're almost certainly making yourself worse off (and even if you are using a very nice preamp, I doubt you'll see much improvement since you're still going through the XDA's). keep in mind, however, if your running a 2.1 setup (like me) the preamp becomes a convenient way to split out the sub signal. |
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Post by MurphMan on Feb 19, 2011 21:57:01 GMT -5
Just got my XDA home last night and haven't had a ton of time to play with it, but I did get kernel streaming to work in Foobar via USB. I was not able to get 24 bit depth to work though--I'd love to know which 3rd party drivers work. Also, Murph, as far as "leaving the preamp in the system", you already have a preamp in the system, since that's half of the XDA. If you turn it to 80 to drive another preamp, you're still running it through 2 preamps. Unless you're using a very high dollar preamp, you're almost certainly making yourself worse off (and even if you are using a very nice preamp, I doubt you'll see much improvement since you're still going through the XDA's). keep in mind, however, if your running a 2.1 setup (like me) the preamp becomes a convenient way to split out the sub signal. bobbyt, In its day, the Revox was a high dollar preamp. Now at the tender age of 25 years, the dollar value has started to sag as age tends to do. None the less it went out for some R&R at the factory authorized spa about a year and a half ago and came back looking and sounding more like its old self. In my view the old girl still has a lot of charm, for a 2 channel guy like myself. So yes, since I already own it and I have need for analog inputs and an occasional need for FM (showing my age), and it does not appear to degrade the sound of the XDA-1, she can stay nestled in her deserved place in my stereo cabinet. As a plus, she offers bass and treble controls so when the need to shake the house arrises, she can get up and dance! She is more than willing to try new things, like Apple Lossless streamed wirelessly from our NAS. Try though I may, she refuses to vacuum or do windows. Best Regards, Murph |
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Post by paintedklown on Feb 19, 2011 22:08:59 GMT -5
Thought that I would share my impressions (mini review) in comparing these two DACs. I have had the HRT Music Streamer II for about 6 months, and have connected it to an old Mac Cube to drive my 2.1 channel system. The Streamer was a clear improvement over the low end Denon CD player & DAC from the Cube. The vocals and guitars were much more natural and well defined. The bass was fairly good, but a little loose. My biggest issue, that really stood out when listening at higher volumes, was that the high frequencies where not smooth. The high frequencies were an improvement and smoother than the prior sources, but sibilance was still annoying to me. The music that I play most is all ripped in Apple Lossless format. The XDA-1 made an improvement. Not just in one area but several. None the less, the improvements were more subtle than the big WOW factor of adding the Streamer II for the first time. I set up both to feed inputs to a Revox B-286 preamp, and receive USB 1.1 outputs from the Cube. The sensitivity on the preamp was adjusted to match volume between the two by ear. Then I switched between the two to get instant impressions of the differences in the sound. What I heard first was the smooth high frequency response that I wanted from the XDA. Also, it was clear that the Streamer had a more forward and flatter sound stage, but both my wife and I noticed that the XDA was more laid back and had more depth to the music. (And she didn't tell me to turn it down, big plus +++!) That added depth from the XDA may be related to the improved separation that it provides to the instruments. Finally, being the bass aficionado in the family, I felt that the XDA bass response was both stronger and tighter than the Streamer could reproduce. So the XDA is a clear winner in my set up. Since the wow factor was lower than I hoped, I'll be hesitant to upgrade the DAC further though. Some other observations. The Streamer is recognized by the default Apple drivers in "Audio MIDI Setup" as capable of 24 bit/ 96KHz. I have to operate it at 24 bit/ 44KHz for smooth playing, probably because the 1.1 USB is a little too slow to play the 96KHz rate well. None the less, the Streamer sounds smoother when "Audio MIDI Setup" is set to 24 bit rather than 16 bit. The XDA-1 on the other hand is only capable of 16 bit output with the default drivers and 44 or 48KHz. Lonnie and Eric, Any word on alternative drivers for OSX? I would love to try 24 bit output to see if it makes a difference. Also, I did try connecting the XDA-1 direct to my XPA-3 amp for some 2.0 testing. Going back and forth between the 2.0 set up: XDA-1 > RCA > XPA-3, or XDA-1 > RCA > B-286 > XPA-3 seemed to make little difference. So I'll leave the preamp in the system for the analog inputs and occasional FM use. Best Regards, Murph Great review Murph. Thanks for your input. I really like it when the reviewer is able to compare the XDA-1 to another DAC that they are familiar with...always a plus! It's also nice to see more XDA-1 reviews coming in, I wanna know...how does this thing sound and how does it compare to the competition...  |
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