XDA-1 vs Eastern Electric Minimax DAC

[morgain]

Hello I 've been looking for some time for a way for improved sound coming from a pc or mediastreamer. As a result I ended up looking for a good affordable DAC.

After some research I ended up with 2 DACs: the Emotiva XDA-1 and the Eastern Electric Minimax DAC.

Emotiva XDA-1:
- Price $299
- Sigma-Delta AD1955 DAC
- Digital Volume Control
- Remote Control
- Inputs: AES/EBU, Coax Digital (2), Optical (2), USB
- Outputs: L/R Unbalanced RCAs, L/R Balanced XLRs
- Jitter reduction

24-bit, 192 kHz Sample Rate PCM Audio Data, 120 dB SNR/DNR (not muted) at 48KHz Sample Rate (A-Weighted Stereo)
Dual Differential input stage with cross linked current sources
Darlington VAS stage and Darlington output stages
Frequency response: 5-50Khz
S/N: in excess of 110db
THD+N: 0.02%
Ground floor noise: 10uV
Output voltage: 1V nominal, 12V peak


Eastern Electric Minimax DAC:
- Price $750
- ES9018 SABRE32 Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC ( www.esstech.com/PDF/Sabre32%20DAC%20PF%20100622.pdf )
- Volume Control
- No Remote Control (that I'm aware off)
- Inputs: AES/EBU, BNC, Coax, Optical, USB
- Output selectable being between Tube and Solid State
- Jitter reduction

Frequency Response : 15Hz – 32KHz
Sampling rates : 32bit 32KHz 44.1KHz 48KHz 192KHz (except USB)
Dynamic Range : 129dB
Digital Input Impedance : 75 ohm
Output Impedance : Tube 22K
Solid State 10K
Output Voltage : Tube 3V +- 0.5dB
Solid State 2.5V +-0.5dB
S/N ratio : Tube 90dB
Solid Sate 95dB
THD : 0.5%(Tube) 0.02%(Solid State)
Dynamic Range : 129dB

As I'm not an audio expert and just looking to get the best sound out of my digital music collection which will consist of mostly apple lossless ripped cd's, I'm only partly aware of the meaning of all the details in the above mentioned specifications.

I'm really doubting between both DACs and not realy sure what would be the best buy. From what I've read the Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC should be the better DAC and the possibility to choose between Tube and Solid State output also appeals to me. But the XDA-1 has more digital inputs and is said to have really good output stages and jitter reduction.

Could anyone maybe give some advice based on the specifications and maybe some live experience at Emofest?

PS: The Amp I wish to combine either DAC with is the Emotiva XPA-2 or the Decware Zen Torii Mk III. Apple Lossless files will be streamed from my NAS through ethernet to a mediastreamer which will connected by optical to the DAC.

[Erwin.BE]

I suppose you have read the 6moons review:
www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

Don't worry about the DAC chip itself. It's the rest that counts.

That noise-floor of 90 tubed or 95 dB solid state is a bit worrying IMO. XDA-1 is far superior here. I think this means the XDA-1 will provide more detail.

Also the XDA-1 has XLR outputs which are more noise rejecting, and more so over longer distances. That's why I don't care that my "army grade" Weiss DAC2 has no remote: I can position the DAC near my listening position, acting as a "wired" remote. Whether the lack of a volume control bothers you is up to you.

Analogue attenuation should be an advantage over the XDA-1, but we cannot judge here since nobody tested the XDA-1

You say most of your collection will be CD's (16/44.1) ripped to ALAC. This is all the EE in it's current state is capable of anyway! You know CD's are slowly being replaced by downloads, not? I just took a subscription to B&W Society of Sound for $59. They give you 30 albums in different sample rates (from 16/44.1 to 24/96) to download. aren't you curious how these sound? You will be stuck to 16/44.1

If I were you, I'd only consider a device that could do at least 24/96. I'm sure EE will provide this not to long from now, but until then, my choice would always be the $299 XDA-1. Buy some sweet 24/96 music with the extra money in the pocket! Or you could buy Pure Music playback software that auto-changes the sample rate output of a Mac (I suppose you have Mac?)

[morgain]

Thanks for responding Eric. Yes I also had a look at the 6moons review indeed. I can say that I'm also always interested in 24/96 downloads if they are available for the music I listen to. The higher the quality the better I would say

You say the EE Minimax DAC can only handle 16/44.1 sample rates, but from what I've read the 16/44.1 restriction should be only for USB and as I'm not intending to use USB but Optical I think 24/96 should be possible, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not aware which plays the biggest part in quality either the internal DAC or the output stage. I guess both should play a role but if you say the output stage is most important I will take notice. I have no idea however about the quality difference between the Emotiva XDA-1 Output stage and the EE Minimax Tube and Solid State output stage? From what I read in some reviews the Tube output stage from the EE Minimax should be very good at least.

About the noise, I read in the following review www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=798 this info:

There are different levels of quality in the Sabre chip line, and the top is the ES9018 – which actually has eight channels of digital-to-analogue conversion. That is very important, since the hottest new design in building consumer component DACs is what Calto termed the “Quad Differential Mode”. That means using four channels of DAC processing 24 bit/96 KHz for each stereo channel. I believe that in time all leading DAC manufacturers will be doing so.

One of the main advantages of using four DACs per channel is a dramatic reduction in noise in the signal. Lower noise means higher, more dramatic sound, and those “blacker backgrounds” we all seek. You can crank on the volume and hear far less noise than with 16 bit or 24 bit processors. Consider what Calto intones, “…When you double the number of DACs you cut the noise in half.” No wonder the Dynamic Noise Reduction (DNR) threshold is at an extreme 135 dB! That means the basis to build really, really, really quiet components.

Calto confirmed that the chip does upsample all incoming signals to 32 bit, but the frequency is not fixed. It can vary from 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, or 192 KHz. According to him, “…each sample in time will have resolution of a minimum of 32 bit number.” In other words, feed it whatever frequency signal you like, it’ll come out 32 bit. I can hardly overstate the importance of this development. This is a technology which, applied by skilled designers, will decimate current standards of good digital sound, including 24 bit/192 KHz processing.

By the way I don't have a Mac, just a Windows 7 notebook with iTunes and also an Apple Airport Express Accesspoint with Optical audio output.

[jlafrenz]

It's all speculation until the XDA-1 gets released and people can listen to it in their own system. It was at Emofest and sounded good, but there was noting to compare it against. Keep in mind that there is a 30 day return policy for a reason.

[Erwin.BE]

Sept 27, 2010 16:11:23 GMT -5 morgain said:

Thanks for responding Eric. Yes I also had a look at the 6moons review indeed. I can say that I'm also always interested in 24/96 downloads if they are available for the music I listen to. The higher the quality the better I would say

You say the EE Minimax DAC can only handle 16/44.1 sample rates, but from what I've read the 16/44.1 restriction should be only for USB and as I'm not intending to use USB but Optical I think 24/96 should be possible, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not aware which plays the biggest part in quality either the internal DAC or the output stage. I guess both should play a role but if you say the output stage is most important I will take notice. I have no idea however about the quality difference between the Emotiva XDA-1 Output stage and the EE Minimax Tube and Solid State output stage? From what I read in some reviews the Tube output stage from the EE Minimax should be very good at least.

About the noise, I read in the following review www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=798 this info:

There are different levels of quality in the Sabre chip line, and the top is the ES9018 – which actually has eight channels of digital-to-analogue conversion. That is very important, since the hottest new design in building consumer component DACs is what Calto termed the “Quad Differential Mode”. That means using four channels of DAC processing 24 bit/96 KHz for each stereo channel. I believe that in time all leading DAC manufacturers will be doing so.

One of the main advantages of using four DACs per channel is a dramatic reduction in noise in the signal. Lower noise means higher, more dramatic sound, and those “blacker backgrounds” we all seek. You can crank on the volume and hear far less noise than with 16 bit or 24 bit processors. Consider what Calto intones, “…When you double the number of DACs you cut the noise in half.” No wonder the Dynamic Noise Reduction (DNR) threshold is at an extreme 135 dB! That means the basis to build really, really, really quiet components.

Calto confirmed that the chip does upsample all incoming signals to 32 bit, but the frequency is not fixed. It can vary from 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, or 192 KHz. According to him, “…each sample in time will have resolution of a minimum of 32 bit number.” In other words, feed it whatever frequency signal you like, it’ll come out 32 bit. I can hardly overstate the importance of this development. This is a technology which, applied by skilled designers, will decimate current standards of good digital sound, including 24 bit/192 KHz processing.

By the way I don't have a Mac, just a Windows 7 notebook with iTunes and also an Apple Airport Express Accesspoint with Optical audio output.

Jean Paul, you are welcome!

Honoustly, I agree with your semi-ventilated opinion about the really good music not being avalable in 24/96. WE WANT MUSIC! No friggin requiems that make us feel more dead than alive... I hereby declare that I want Beth Ditto to cover Janis Joplin's MOVE OVER!

Anyway, I know Apple Airport has its limitations. That and the fact my 1TB iMac was almost bursting with music, made me decide to setup a dedicated Mac mini (+ 2TB hard drive) and get a professional Weiss DAC2. But that's just me being anal.

Thing is with using tubes: I don't trust them. I got a Njoetjoeb CD player (with tube output) that sounds superb. But does it sound correct? Getting tubes to sound right is much more difficult then solid state. Tubes "sooth" you. They seduce you. But in the end, I prefer brutal honousty.

Seriously, take the DAC claims with a grain of salt. What's the point in using a DAC configuration with 135 dB noise floor if the following output stages are resulting in 90/95 dB noise floors?

The XDA-1 is so dead cheap for what it promises (the XLR's - worth $50, the milled remote - worth $60, the discrete output stages - worth $100...) that you might as well give it a try! I will be comparing it to my DacMagic. The best one stays, the other will go!

[edmondwolfman]

Sept 27, 2010 18:08:53 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Jean Paul, you are welcome!

Honoustly, I agree with your semi-ventilated opinion about the really good music not being avalable in 24/96. WE WANT MUSIC! No friggin requiems that make us feel more dead than alive... I hereby declare that I want Beth Ditto to cover Janis Joplin's MOVE OVER!

Anyway, I know Apple Airport has its limitations. That and the fact my 1TB iMac was almost bursting with music, made me decide to setup a dedicated Mac mini (+ 2TB hard drive) and get a professional Weiss DAC2. But that's just me being anal.

Thing is with using tubes: I don't trust them. I got a Njoetjoeb CD player (with tube output) that sounds superb. But does it sound correct? Getting tubes to sound right is much more difficult then solid state. Tubes "sooth" you. They seduce you. But in the end, I prefer brutal honousty.

Seriously, take the DAC claims with a grain of salt. What's the point in using a DAC configuration with 135 dB noise floor if the following output stages are resulting in 90/95 dB noise floors?

The XDA-1 is so dead cheap for what it promises (the XLR's - worth $50, the milled remote - worth $60, the discrete output stages - worth $100...) that you might as well give it a try! I will be comparing it to my DacMagic. The best one stays, the other will go!

Erwin, I too use a DACMagic and look forward to your comparison once you get the XDA-1 and have time to have a "play off" ;D