jimi
Minor Hero
Posts: 35
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Post by jimi on Oct 13, 2010 9:55:42 GMT -5
Heh, my bad- neglected this thread for a bit Good to read that all of you still have a great sense of humour. But there's little in the way of useful comments yet  I was hoping for a little more enthusiasm as there’s a big diy scene the US and its relatively easier to mod something that is already v good as opposed to building from scratch. I appreciate crazyhorse carrying the torch and am sorry if he/ she feels a bit wounded by some people's comments. I'm not "knocking it" just stating fact. My osciloscope is way more sensitive than my heaing will ever be. According to it, the electron path through a fuse or power cord is the same regardless of how it is branded or the price put on it. The only notable difference would be if your power cord is literally getting warm due to resistance. In that case a larger gauge would lower resistance. As far as reversing the polarity, I am running mine at 230v. Emo amps do not use the neutral lead, or ground lead in the 230v instance. If running 230v there is no way to reverse polarity. You use 2 legs at 115 volts each. This is being the case, the amp should not notice any difference at 115v either if the polarity is reversed. Placebo is a powerful thing. Dude, I agree with you. Hifi is a fun hobby but I'm no mug- I'll test until I'm satisfied there's a difference and then decide whether its worth paying for it. I’m in Singapore so 240v here is standard. Its easy to reverse the polarity if just swap between US PC and a UK one. I discovered the reverse polarity blunder by accident. Was ‘running in’ (not really a believer as such in this but doesn’t hurt, right?) some PCs and forgot I had reversed it. Anyway, something was terribly wrong with the system which I noticed after a few sessions- I thought it was some new components that I had added so the whole thing took a bit of (very frustrating) detective work. When I did pinpoint it and it was a ‘Eureka’ moment- make of it what you will. It might be useful to state my system: Cayin tube CDP/ Benchmark DAC Pre + PC as sources (R1 Oyaide plug socket), XPA1s, Focal 1027Be floorstanders- I use Audioquest Sky balanced interconnects (was heavily discounted- don’t ask  ) and Anticable spkr cable. I have the sources and power amps on separate 240v 20A lines. I’m still adding to my system so am waiting to get a more decent preamp and then try out PCs (not tried them so cannot comment on any differences). Not sure if you feel the same way with interconnects as you do with PCs, but my Sky cables do make a big difference and I realise that they should conduct electricity the same as any other piece of silver. I can only ask you to try for yourself with some cheap stuff to make the comparison easier. I’m a believer in measurements too- but then again perhaps your oscilloscope might find it difficult to measure something like tone or soundstaging which are child’s play to detect by hearing. Maybe your ‘scope can detect these things, its just that you have to know WHAT to detect in the first place I’ve set up my room with acoustic panels and Helmholtz based bass traps and had it measured acoustically. Its not perfect by a long way but I’d like to see if anyone else’s room measures as well ;D. Here’s the graph and some pics to liven an otherwise long and dull post:    These traps are 14inches in height (hidden in the false ceiling).  |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Oct 13, 2010 12:58:46 GMT -5
QQ: What smoothing is applied on the graph?
Thanks!
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jimi
Minor Hero
Posts: 35
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Post by jimi on Oct 24, 2010 10:46:29 GMT -5
Sorry, dude. I don't really know.
My acoustic friend sorted it for me. Must be some RoomEQ setting/ translation of a waterfall plot.
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jimi
Minor Hero
Posts: 35
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Post by jimi on Oct 27, 2010 10:08:58 GMT -5
So, no one has tried modifying their amps at all? Bit surprised and a little disappointed at the same time...  |
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Post by bearfan51 on Oct 27, 2010 21:51:42 GMT -5
try it and find out yourself. PC that you can try you can find by Signal cable or the Pangea are a very nice build and fit. Some people hear differences, others don't but try it for yourself. Also upgrading Fuses etc can be an improvment. Once again try it for yourself. PC's are easy to find on the used market and don't lose their value when bought used so can be sold again at the same price bought. Try it before knocking it. Others will argue till the day they die that it doesn't do anything without ever trying it, goes both ways. Amen. I'd also like to see the measurements for comparing image depth between components. I guess if you can't measure it, it can't possibly exist. I know that's not what you guys are saying, but it's also a tidbit that's always avoided by the 'scientists'......Deny and divert. Personally, I'd love to hear a modified Emo amp, upgraded with the finest components, and wires. |
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Post by wbedford on Oct 28, 2010 9:55:50 GMT -5
I have added some fo.Q damping inside my UPA-2. Not a modification, but more a tweak. I added small circles of fo.Q to the capacitors, the transformer, the two circuit boards and on the bottom chassis. I got a nice upgrade in sound with enhanced detail articulation and imaging. Best of all, the tape is easily removed. www.foq.jp/about/about_foq_e.html |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 28, 2010 10:01:28 GMT -5
I have added some fo.Q damping inside my UPA-2. Not a modification, but more a tweak. I added small circles of fo.Q to the capacitors, the transformer, the two circuit boards and on the bottom chassis. I got a nice upgrade in sound with enhanced detail articulation and imaging. Best of all, the tape is easily removed if you need to send back to EMO for warranty. www.foq.jp/about/about_foq_e.htmlWell wouldn't something like that void the warranty? Especially yours, since they know you messed with the insides. ;D By the way, I looked at the web site link and then found a review on Enjoy the Music for some of their products. Their stuff is expensive!!! |
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Post by wbedford on Oct 28, 2010 15:29:12 GMT -5
I have added some fo.Q damping inside my UPA-2. Not a modification, but more a tweak. I added small circles of fo.Q to the capacitors, the transformer, the two circuit boards and on the bottom chassis. I got a nice upgrade in sound with enhanced detail articulation and imaging. Best of all, the tape is easily removed . www.foq.jp/about/about_foq_e.htmlWell wouldn't something like that void the warranty? Especially yours, since they know you messed with the insides. ;D By the way, I looked at the web site link and then found a review on Enjoy the Music for some of their products. Their stuff is expensive!!! Ha ha. Well, my post stipulates that I added fo.Q product, but not to what piece of equipement.  I have fo.Q on speakers, speaker wire, interconnects and power cables. The stuff is amazing. |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 28, 2010 15:46:00 GMT -5
Well wouldn't something like that void the warranty? Especially yours, since they know you messed with the insides. ;D By the way, I looked at the web site link and then found a review on Enjoy the Music for some of their products. Their stuff is expensive!!! Ha ha. Well, my post stipulates that I added fo.Q product, but not to what piece of equipement. I have fo.Q on speakers, speaker wire, interconnects and power cables. The stuff is amazing. Actually you mentioned using it in your UPA-2.. Where do you buy this stuff, out of curiosity? Also, I notice they said the name is pronounced "pho-Q" which might be rather rude sounding. ;D |
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Post by vincedog3 on Oct 28, 2010 16:16:37 GMT -5
Wow now that is a new one. Does the tape offer any dielectric or coupling effects? ;D |
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Post by johndavidson on Oct 28, 2010 18:58:13 GMT -5
Wow now that is a new one. Does the tape offer any dielectric or coupling effects? ;D It eliminates the effects of gravity waves  |
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Post by thepcguy on Oct 28, 2010 19:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by wbedford on Oct 29, 2010 9:01:50 GMT -5
monkumonku,
Got my fo.Q stuff from a dealer in British Columbia.
The picture with the crystals on the interconnects from MD has to be the most circulated pic on this board. Good fodder for those who make an opinion at the keyboard without having tried something beforehand.
The principle of fo.Q is sound and is not in the same ballpark as MD crystal. Heck, I'd even consider sending some fo.Q footers to put under you amp/processor to a "doubter" to try them in his/her system. It would make this thread very interesting.
I have no issues if people run 999$ amplifiers with mono price RCA cables and a two dollar power cable. At least most of us can agree that Emotiva is a great company with great products. Differing opinions make life very interesting ;D
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 29, 2010 10:23:21 GMT -5
monkumonku, Got my fo.Q stuff from a dealer in British Columbia. The picture with the crystals on the interconnects from MD has to be the most circulated pic on this board. Good fodder for those who make an opinion at the keyboard without having tried something beforehand. The principle of fo.Q is sound and is not in the same ballpark as MD crystal. Heck, I'd even consider sending some fo.Q footers to put under you amp/processor to a "doubter" to try them in his/her system. It would make this thread very interesting. I have no issues if people run 999$ amplifiers with mono price RCA cables and a two dollar power cable. At least most of us can agree that Emotiva is a great company with great products. Differing opinions make life very interesting ;D Thanks for the info. When it comes to tweaks, I do see the merit in something that reduces vibrations such at the fo.Q stuff but it sure is expensive. I wonder how much it actually costs them to manufacture it. For example, that board they sell is like $650 - what could cost so much? But then other things like those crystals and the crazy little clock (or whatever they call it) are just plain silly. I wouldn't mind trying the fo.Q stuff but the cost/benefit to me seems way out of whack (at least for what I am willing to spend). And yes, we do agree that Emo makes great stuff! By the way, exactly which product of theirs is it that you use? |
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Post by indyscammer on Oct 29, 2010 10:34:36 GMT -5
So at the risk of being/going off topic here....anyone believe this (the red arrow point)? I have heard a LARGE difference between amplifiers (EMO vs. B&K) in the same room, same speakers, same processor, same recordings, etc. etc. If it wasn't the amps making the difference what was it? |
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Post by wbedford on Oct 29, 2010 11:13:36 GMT -5
[/quote] Thanks for the info. When it comes to tweaks, I do see the merit in something that reduces vibrations such at the fo.Q stuff but it sure is expensive. I wonder how much it actually costs them to manufacture it. For example, that board they sell is like $650 - what could cost so much? But then other things like those crystals and the crazy little clock (or whatever they call it) are just plain silly. I wouldn't mind trying the fo.Q stuff but the cost/benefit to me seems way out of whack (at least for what I am willing to spend). And yes, we do agree that Emo makes great stuff! By the way, exactly which product of theirs is it that you use? [/quote] I use the Ta-102 tuning tape. Half the pack will see you through your entire system easily. Cheap is you have a EMO buddy to split it with. I have only used the TA-102. Like you said, there has to be a balance. Going off the gear you have in your signature, 80$ is not very expensive. |
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jimi
Minor Hero
Posts: 35
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Post by jimi on Oct 29, 2010 11:24:22 GMT -5
That audio critic article actually put me off testing for myself for a while.
Life is busy, why waste time researching something that an article has harshly discredited when the author obviously writes well and with authority and who seems to have at least some truth and sense?
Thankfully I was curious enough to discover for myself.
With cables its easy really. Just show up at a fancy hifi showroom to hear their system with and without your own cheap as chips cable. If you can't hear a difference you are either truely blessed or in denial (yes, I believe even a partially deaf person can easily appreciate the difference).
If you need a hand close your eyes, listen to 1 aspect at a time: e.g. the bass or the detail in the voice, etc. Soundstage depth and width is also easy to appreciate.
While I will probably not change the wiring in my electronics the interconnects and spkr cable are vastly greater in material volume so isn't it 'reasonable' to assume they can affect the sound?
I have a 'high end' cable and one which is 'low end' (about $300 per metre), the difference is remarkable between them and is easily spotted on a blind test.
Amps do sound different. While I might not have been able to find 2 amps of differing price with identical specs (doesn't it strike you as odd that a cheap amp would have the same specs as an expensive one??), amps do sound very different even within the same price range.
And of course a 128kps MP3 sounds very different to a SACD, and a PC speaker sounds different to a floorstander. But to say that everything else approximates to no difference is ridiculous IMHO.
Of course there is snake oil and the law of diminishing returns, but investigate for yourself and you won't go wrong and may discover a very fascinating hobby.
Please DON'T take my word for it ;D ;D
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Post by roflcatdown on Oct 29, 2010 16:39:44 GMT -5
And you guys are not bashing how? So, basic cable physics. The longer the cable run, the higher the resistance within the cable itself. By increasing wire gauge you decrease resistance. In the case of AC power, the reason 12 gauge cable is specified for a 20 Amp circuit is to prevent fires due to resistance (which becomes heat) over significant length of wire runs... The reason for this is because as a conductor heats up, its resistance increases until you get a fire or the conductor melts breaking the circuit. This is especially important since most power cable is not exposed and heat will build up inside walls. A short cable run of under 7 feet will likely not require anything greater than your typical 18 gauge power cable. Using a power cable to your outlet that is of a higher gauge than the wire carrying power from your main is pointless. Using an over-sized power cable to an outlet that is powering your XPA-5 when that same circuit is shared with your TV, Blu-Ray Player, and UMC-1 as well as the lights in the room and your ceiling fan is even more pointless. At this point I don't think even Monster Cable sells upgraded power cords... |
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Post by thepcguy on Oct 29, 2010 18:47:53 GMT -5
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Post by thepcguy on Oct 29, 2010 19:29:34 GMT -5
try it and find out yourself. PC that you can try you can find by Signal cable or the Pangea are a very nice build and fit. Some people hear differences, others don't but try it for yourself. Also upgrading Fuses etc can be an improvment. Once again try it for yourself. PC's are easy to find on the used market and don't lose their value when bought used so can be sold again at the same price bought. Try it before knocking it. Others will argue till the day they die that it doesn't do anything without ever trying it, goes both ways. Did you do a blind test on these? I will do it if you do a blind test with me. |
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I'm not "knocking it" just stating fact. My osciloscope is way more sensitive than my heaing will ever be. According to it, the electron path through a fuse or power cord is the same regardless of how it is branded or the price put on it. The only notable difference would be if your power cord is literally getting warm due to resistance. In that case a larger gauge would lower resistance.
I was hoping for a little more enthusiasm as there’s a big diy scene the US and its relatively easier to mod something that is already v good as opposed to building from scratch.
) and Anticable spkr cable. I have the sources and power amps on separate 240v 20A lines. 
