Tube Preamp

[hawk14]

Is anyone using the UPA-1's with a tube preamp? If so, please share your experiences with this comb. I am in search for a tube pre and am considering some from Rogue and Conrad Johnson.

Thanks in advance

[gcos]

Hawk,
I am using a Mapletree Line 2A SE tube preamp with my UPA1s.The sound is awesome..... smooth, detailed and very warm. I am still using the supplied NOS Sylvania 12SN7 chrome top, but I am awaiting a NOS Sylvania 12 SX7 which quite a few tubephiles claim outperforms any 6SN7 or 12SN7. (the 2A can use either) hollowstate.netfirms.com/

[hawk14]

Thanks for the info. Thats exactly the effect I'm looking for. I've seen Mapletree but never actually looked into it. I may need to check it out.

[sanjaygolf]

I also have the Mapletree Line 2A SE but paired with a MPS-1 and formally a RPA-1. This is my first foray into tubes so I cant comment how it compares to other tube gear but I will say I love it's sound compared to the SS preamps I had before it. I really wish Emotiva would consider tubes.

[kazoo]

Don't have the UPA-1s but do have the XPA-1s. I am running the Bottlehead tube pre right now and love the sound. That will probably be changed to the Decware tube pre in the future. So here are two other companies to check out. Bottlehead is a kit based company so you have to build it. Decware is made for you and their stuff is nice.

John

[hawk14]

Thanks Kazoo. Never heard of Bottlehead but I have heard of Decware. I'll give those a look as well. I'm assuming these pres' output impedance pose no problems for your amps.

[kazoo]

Nope not at all. Actually last time I talked to the Decware guy about some upgrades I wanted to do, he mentioned that his pre was actually made for solid state amps. Most of his amps are integrated. Also one nice thing about his new pre is its also a headphone amp.

[harmonicdistortion]

Received my UPA 1's on 12.02.10. I brought my gently used Dynaco Pas 3 series II tube preamp out of retirement after 15 years - connecting them to B&W 602 S3's. I allowed the tubes to warm for 45 minutes using a modest sony cd / dvd player for background music. After the allotted warm up time, I began listening to Music. Music was three dimensional, with added depth and height, with multiple layering of sound, individualized voices and instruments, and a sonic timbre, that with instruments and voices sounded natural and alive. Thanks Emotiva. Tubes Rock

[maggieuser]

Pacific valve out of chicago offers numerous tube pre amps from ys audio, doge and ming da raging in price from $561 up to $1650. PV even gives advice on tube upgrades to improve the sound. I haven't bought one of the pre amps but have purchased a tube buffer from them and am happy with it. Maybe Christmas will be good to me and I can try on of them with my Upa-1's

[monkumonku]

Dec 20, 2010 11:42:49 GMT -5 maggieuser said:

Pacific valve out of chicago offers numerous tube pre amps from ys audio, doge and ming da raging in price from $561 up to $1650. PV even gives advice on tube upgrades to improve the sound. I haven't bought one of the pre amps but have purchased a tube buffer from them and am happy with it. Maybe Christmas will be good to me and I can try on of them with my Upa-1's

I recently purchased the Yaqin single-tube buffer from Pacific Valve and can vouch for their dependability. It took a while to get it because they had no stock and had to wait for the next shipment from China, but the order status page was kept updated and the package was sent very securely padded.

You can get the same things cheaper on E-Bay direct from China but I decided to go with the "official" American distributor just in case of having any problems (of which there weren't any).

[hawk14]

these responses are great as they let me know guys feel comfortable to mate tube gear with the UPA-1's. As soon as I pick a pre, I will post my thoughts. Any more pre suggestions, keep 'em rollin'.

[USNRet]

I too have the XPA-1 and use a Juicy Music Peach (JM Tercel tube phono stage) by Mark Deneen. He is retired now but occasionally you can find Peach, Blueberry, Blueberry Extreme and rarely Merlins for sale.

The Peach has a HiZ / LoZ selection and I can almost hear a difference so the XPAs match up well in that regard.

[emotivauser102010]

Dec 28, 2010 17:01:57 GMT -5 hawk14 said:

these responses are great as they let me know guys feel comfortable to mate tube gear with the UPA-1's. As soon as I pick a pre, I will post my thoughts. Any more pre suggestions, keep 'em rollin'.

Hi, we have an Audio Research LS-25 feeding a pair of XPA-1's.

We are hypersensitive to hard and edgy sound from solid state equipment. Attempts to find a solid state line stage or preamplifier to replace our valve line stage have been unsuccessful.

The LS-25 offers Audio Research's characteristic large soundscape with neutrality and high resolution. It is detailed, sweet, fast and gives full support to lower notes. For our purpose, it is a perfect match with the XPA's.

I am unfamiliar with the UPA's but good luck and good hunting just the same.

[hawk14]

I think one has to be careful as to which AR piece you select. I've heard a few pieces in the past that were a little analytical for me. I've heard some good things about the SP14, however. in the end, it looks like its going to come down to the Rogue Metis or making the jump in price to Conrad Johnson's ET-3.

I would love to grab an Audible Illusions M3A, but I was disappointed to learn that they no longer refurbish units unless you are upgrading. Now getting a refurbished unit at a great price would be another story.

[emotivauser102010]

The word, "Analytical", when applied to audio equipment, is probably subject to various definitions so forgive me for avoiding it.

What I enjoy is "realism" in terms of what instruments and voices should sound like. Can I suspend reality for a few moments and pretend that there is a concert in the room?

From my limited experience, matching components seem quite important. Before the XPA-1, I was using a set of new, "relatively expensive" well-known solid state monoblocks driving my speakers. While they were "revealing" and seem to exhibit all the qualities that audiophiles prefer, they just were flat and not very involving for my taste. They also could not properly integrate with the LS25 due to strange input-gain mismatch. They could make beautiful music but unable to present a performance. Off they went to Audiogon when the XPA-1's arrived.

With the XPA-1's matched to ARC's LS25, it is a near perfect integration of excellent solid state power with the exquisite sweetness and richness of tubes. The ability of the XPA-1 to control the speakers put the performance right in our room. I wish I had discovered Emotiva much sooner.

Anyway, hope your quest for a wonderful tube preamp works out.

[hawk14]

EmotivaUser, Avoiding my usage of the term "analytical" is quite okay with me. It can mean so many things for many different people. I tend to use it to refrain from calling something flat out bright or harsh. Resolute, fatiguing, and too accurate or revealing, are some terms that I could have just as easily used, but I believe you get what I'm trying to say.

System matching, as I have learned, is very important. Some pieces just don't work well together, no matter how good they are on there own. Wierd.

I believe that a quality tube preamp will solidfy the sound of my system, and give me the smooth, airy presentation that I seek. I will post my findings and a full-on review once I select a preamp and set up my system.

[emotivauser102010]

There are indeed many descriptive terms we can use and without clear definitions, it is easy to mislead or talk right past each other.

Just for grins...

"Hard" to my ears means the sounds from the loudspeakers are smashing into my ear drums causing them to feel "clogged". The sensation is like that of pressure changes causing our ears to clog. This one is more like the ear drums are becoming numb.

"Harsh" to my ears means all upper frequency sounds are tipped further up. The sound becomes piercing and hard on my ears.

"Fatigue" refers to the above two conditions combining to quickly ruin a listening session.

I have learned that poor recordings, poor components (really cheap $20 CD player), poor cables (thin lamp cord or thin manufactured supplied speaker and interconnect cords), poor speakers (poor metal tweeter) and poor amplifiers can cause any and all of the above.

"Accuracy" is another loaded word that I avoid because there are too many variables. The most "accurate" gear cannot help a bad (inaccurate) recording and some poor recordings contain music worth listening.

"Revealing" and "details" are easier to find common grounds. It just means I can hear more of the recording on a CD or LP. The components are capable of retrieving most of the recorded information and reproduce most of them for my ears.

"Analytical" describes a system that is capable of revealing details but lacks "involvement". For me, the opposite of "analytical" is "realism". This is very subjective and totally depends on our individual taste.

Having used systems since the 1960's, my brain can adapt to many forms of sounds, so there is no one preferred "standard". Some old mono recordings of great piano pieces are worth listening and my brain can adapt what I am hearing to how the recording would sound through an old RCA phono-radio. It is amazing how really old recording of jazz music, with the accompanying sparks and hash, can still convey pace, richness and musical feelings.

All interesting stuff but I prefer less "talk" and more listening!

[DYohn]

Jan 4, 2011 17:47:25 GMT -5 @emotivauser102010 said:

There are indeed many descriptive terms we can use and without clear definitions, it is easy to mislead or talk right past each other.

Just for grins...

"Hard" to my ears means the sounds from the loudspeakers are smashing into my ear drums causing them to feel "clogged". The sensation is like that of pressure changes causing our ears to clog. This one is more like the ear drums are becoming numb.

"Harsh" to my ears means all upper frequency sounds are tipped further up. The sound becomes piercing and hard on my ears.

"Fatigue" refers to the above two conditions combining to quickly ruin a listening session.

I have learned that poor recordings, poor components (really cheap $20 CD player), poor cables (thin lamp cord or thin manufactured supplied speaker and interconnect cords), poor speakers (poor metal tweeter) and poor amplifiers can cause any and all of the above.

"Accuracy" is another loaded word that I avoid because there are too many variables. The most "accurate" gear cannot help a bad (inaccurate) recording and some poor recordings contain music worth listening.

"Revealing" and "details" are easier to find common grounds. It just means I can hear more of the recording on a CD or LP. The components are capable of retrieving most of the recorded information and reproduce most of them for my ears.

"Analytical" describes a system that is capable of revealing details but lacks "involvement". For me, the opposite of "analytical" is "realism". This is very subjective and totally depends on our individual taste.

Having used systems since the 1960's, my brain can adapt to many forms of sounds, so there is no one preferred "standard". Some old mono recordings of great piano pieces are worth listening and my brain can adapt what I am hearing to how the recording would sound through an old RCA phono-radio. It is amazing how really old recording of jazz music, with the accompanying sparks and hash, can still convey pace, richness and musical feelings.

All interesting stuff but I prefer less "talk" and more listening!

And thus why many of us more engineering-oriented types dislike those audiophile terms. Far too subjective to use as a basis for comparison. Perfect for expressing one person's opinion, of course, but that's as far as they go. To me, anyway.

[hawk14]

LOL, I remember reading someone's description of a system's midrange. They called it "chocolatey." How does chocolate sound?

Emotivauser and DYohn, you both make great points. In the end, its what sounds good to the individual that matters, regardless of how well we can describe a sound.

[hawk14]

Thanks to all who gave suggestions, but after much searching and losing out on sales and auctions, I landed a really sweet deal on a McIntosh C-15 preamp. Its not a tube pre, but I'm still expect to achieve the warmth and smoothness that I was looking for with the tube pre, but obviously without the "tubey" sound. If it turns out not to be my cup of tea, I know I can get back what I paid for it quite easily, and then just go ahead and get the tube pre. I will post my thoughts once everything gets set up.