XDA-1 Brightness/Forward Issue *fixed*

[rockguitar]

Hi,

you probably want to check your settings on your PS3. See e.g. this thread.

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897133&page=2
Post #60 recommends:
"Make sure your PS3 volume control is set to zero. This can cause distortion. When playing a CD, hit the triangle. It brings up the menu and select Volume. make sure it is at zero.

I had a friend who was freaked out by distortion and was ready to take it back. He checked and his was above zero. He isn't sure if he did it himself or it if somehow did it on its own."

I would also try a different transport, e.g. a DVD player rather than the PS3 to see if that is the issue.

It could also just be your preferences. Bel Canto Dac's have always been reputed to be on the tubelike (listenable) side. While I have not noticed any excessive treble or brightness with my unit, there may be some ultrasonic noise from the system that's bothering you. I had a similar experience with a NAD Cd player that I bought many years ago. I also had listening fatigue every time after 10 mins or so. I replaced it with a Cal Audio Labs CD player and had no more listening fatigue.

[joe]

Yeah, volume is at zero. It's the first thing I checked. I also tried at 48kHz and the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz setting. Brightness happens no matter what I use. I highly doubt is the ps3 as my Pioneer and Bel Canto were not fatiguing at all when paired with the UPA-1's and Vandersteen speakers. The DAC is the only difference. My ps3 is my all in one media server and it literally does everything. I don't wanna part with it just to tame down the bright DAC. I understand and appreciate your suggestion though.

EDIT: The Emo XLR cables could be causing the brightness too. My higher end RCA cables tone down the brightness but at the expense of clarity. I'll buy a pair of generic XLR's from the local music shop and see if it makes a diff.

[bigred7078]

Thats very strange as i've found the particular Analog Devices dac to be pretty laid back lol.

But that being said I just have a hard time seeing how the Emo dac alone is making your speakers unbearable to listen to after only a few minutes. Thats a much bigger difference than you should be getting and really doesn't make much sense. Obviously something is not meshing well, but i'm not quite sure what to tell you. Perhaps its the high gain that is throwing you off? Keep experimenting.

[mrla]

i have not heard bel canto dac3, i'd auditioned dac2...people said dac3 sounds very much like dac2 with pre-amp funcitons. dac2 is very musical, though a bit thin...

that said, i wonder if xda-1 is a zalou dac in nicer chasis...that's what it reminds me when i try to think of similar sounding dac. but with the issue with its attenuator, i'd tried not to mention about its sound...

attenuators have been around ions, every sony es cd player i'd ever have has attenuator....why can't emo get its attenuator right first time around?

[jlafrenz]

It is good that you have taken the room into consideration, but remember that just because you have carpet and a big couch does not mean that your room is properly treated. Sound hits more than just the floor and if some type of acoustic treatment is not correctly placed at reflection points you may still have issues.

I do understand your feelings about it being bright. I experienced this in my 2 channel system, but it was after a period of listening. I think it is because it is very open on the top end. A simple simple solution would be to add a tube buffer. It would warm up the sound and be a more reasonably priced solution than the Bel Canto.

Can you give us a detailed description of how everything is connected? That way we can determine if there are other issues present.

[kazoo]

I was also going to recommend a tube buffer. The buffer should smooth things out. Or you should try out a tube pre-amp to see how things would sound or just a pre-amp. I really think the XDA-1 DAC needs to be used with a pre-amp. Right now I have my system hooked up a little weird. I like my tube pre-amps for sound but missed the switching and remote of the USP-1. So I am actually running the USP-1 into the tube pre and then running it into the XPA-1s. I am using the tube pre as a tube buffer and the pre's volume controls are set at 2/3 volume because I think the USP-1 is a little too hot. I get great sound with this set up. Smooth, detailed, and the sound stage is unreal. This is with playing WAV files off the computer and I listen for hours with no fatigue.

John

[roadrunner]

The one thing that stands out to me is that Kimber cable has long had a reputation of sounding very bright and forward. If you have some decent zip cord type speaker wire around you might do a quick check to see if that is adding to the issue. The other thing I wondered about was touched on by Judd. More important than having a rug is the type of materials used to build your walls and what hang on them, plus the number, size and placement of doors and windows; and what types of coverings for the windows. Do you have any photos of the room you could post?

One other thing. My sons own the PS3 and compared with the sound from my Oppo and the Emotiva ERC-1 the PS3 sounds very stringent. I could not stand listening to the PS3 in my system for very long because of this. Had the PS3 sounded better I was considering buying one to add to my audio system. Have you access to an Oppo 83 or the Emo ERC-1? I find both of these far easier on the ears than the Sony. Good luck in your search.

[Trey]

I'll buy that XDA-1!

[tonys]

I tried the XDA in a very revealing non-emo system and found it to be anything but forward and bright. To my ears it was quite the opposite, the highs were rolled off, the midrange was congested, and the bass was over emphasized and a tab muddy.

In your setup it sounds like the synergy or lack of with the speakers and solid state amps. Many Vandersteen owners pair the speakers with tube amps, such as QuickSilver...

I should mention I did a head to head comparison with a diy Monica2 NOS dac which had better highs, fuller midrange, but no bass in comparison to the XDA. My normal dac is the 24/96 Levinson 360s.

My testing was done with the following components in a treated room with both dac's being feed from the same transport.

Cal Delta (XLR) -> XDA -> Bent Audio NOH (transformer based passive) -> VTL Compact 100 -> Marten Design Dukes
Cal Delta (RCA) -> Monica2 -> Bent Audio NOH (transformer based passive) -> VTL Compact 100 -> Marten Design Dukes

[rixtergonzo]

Dec 14, 2010 9:03:37 GMT -5 tonys said:

I tried the XDA in a very revealing non-emo system and found it to be anything but forward and bright. To my ears it was quite the opposite, the highs were rolled off, the midrange was congested, and the bass was over emphasized and a tab muddy.

I just got the XDA-1 yesterday and tried it out last night. Right off, I also have found the XDA-1 to be something other than bright and forward. In my system, I would describe the sound just as Tonys has described. I am quite disappointed. I was expecting something more...

I tried the XDA-1 with a Rotel CDP via coaxial as a DAC into a Rotel preamp AND then as a Preamp; both cases into a pair of XPA-1s feeding a pair of B&W 802Ns. I also tried J River Media Center 15 on Windows 7 via USB. All sounded the same.

Used as a preamp, I did not experience the high gain that I have been reading about. I was able to go up to 45 at a comfortable loud level with the XPA-1s LEDs peaking at halfway across.

In J River Media Center, I could not get the XDA-1 via USB to play any high res files; only Redbook files would play. We have yet to hear one word from EMO regarding the so called "third party software" needed to play high res files. This last issue is the one that is going to make me return the XDA-1 for a refund.

[kenzo]

Hi,
I have been auditioning numerous combinations of DACS, Preamps, and amps over the last few months.

What I have found surprised me. "System Matching" Dac to preamp to amp to speakers - is a *huge* factor in overall perceived sound quality and accuracy of a system. A dac that sounded too "bright and digital" with one combination sounded just right with another combination, and visa versa. A dac that sounded too laid back in one combination sounded just right with a different combination.

Now what *really* surprised me was how much difference I could here between different combinations of dac-preamp-amp AND that the types of music I listened to seemed to consistently "favor" certain combinations.

I have been comparing $200 non oversampling VALAB vs. Benchmark DAC1 vs. NEKO Audio D100. The preamps are Grounded Grid tube, Emotiva USP-1, the preamp built in to the Benchmark, and a CREEK passive attenuator.

Amps are Musical Fidelity A1-2008 class A integrated, Transcendent Sound T8-LN tube OTL, QUAD 909, Classdaudio SDS-224, and a totally rebuilt Dynaco ST-120.

Speakers are very revealing and fairly efficient Reference3A DeCapo I.

To make a long story short, different combinations of DAC, Preamp, and Amp sounded *very* different.

It just may be that the XDA-1 is not a good match for your particular combination of preamp, amp, cabling, speakers, listening environment, music content, and your personal hearing. This is a normal situation with higher - end equipment. You need a total match...

If one good quality piece of equipment is not a good match for your unique combination of the above, this is not neccessarily a negative reflection on any individual piece.

[muzicianx]

I agree with kenzo - - I just added a PS Audio III into my system, and I'm really not happy after two weeks of listening. It's an $800 DAC, has great reviews, but for my system and musical taste, it's too forward and bright, and too fatiguing to my ears. Music Hall 25.3 comes tomorrow, and I'm hoping the tube output stage will mellow things out, whilst keeping a massive soundstage and better dynamic than the ERC-1... we'll see. If neither sound good to me, than it's something with my combination of equipment, and I'll just have to keep searching. I will say though, the PS Audio DAC is very nice -- well built, works perfectly, pretty blue lights... I would never fault it for being a flawed product.

[briank]

+2, System synergy and personal taste account for a lot

[kenzo]

Dec 13, 2010 21:00:04 GMT -5 Trey said:

I'll buy that XDA-1!

@trey

well, there is a "dreamer" (I originally used a different description) over at audiogon that is trying to sell an XD-1 for $100 OVER the list price.

So there you go

[bobbyt]

Wait, is shipping still included if you've pre-ordered but don't get it until the next shipment?

[Trey]

Thanks...I think. I may wait if my pre-order still includes free shipping.

[pdaddy]

Just to be sure I am clear on the definition, can one or more of you on this thread confirm the defiition of "forward". Do you mean that rather than having more of a 3D depth of the music all the music may be placed well horizontally but no so much front to back.

[tonys]

Yes that is one way to discribe it...

“Forward” sounding has to do with the placement of instruments in the soundstage sounding closer than they were recorded. For example when playing Nora Jones (feels like home) she should be up front compared to the other instruments and it should sound like a small sized jazz club, whereas with the XDA-1 I found her voice placed rather far back, as if she was behind the stage, (with the paino in my lap).

[pdaddy]

Got it. Thanks tonys

[UT-Driven]

Regarding the Playstation 3:

Not sure if you looked at it, but I seem to recall that something like this can be due to the sampling rate. If you change it to 44khz instead of 48khz (not sure what you have it set to), it could help.

Doug