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Post by navman on Dec 15, 2010 19:32:18 GMT -5
With a bit of cable swapping, I did compare the Benchmark DAC1 vs the XDA1. Both of course were with the XLR outputs. I didnt level match.
I played track 7 "Mobasa" from the Inception score.
The Benchmark was a wee bit smoother on top and the bass seemed to go lower. On the other hand the XDA seemed to have better etched out notes and details/defination was a little better.
In a way I suppose the XDA was a bit more analytical in that midbass was easier to define and seperate when the track gets busy while the Benchmark seemed to present the music in that region as a combined whole.
I really dont think one is necessarily better. Mostly a matter of taste. Certainly for the money the Emotiva is the way to go. _Plus the connectivity and ability to connect more to it makes it very worthwhile.
Currently i plan to keep the XDA in my system, but connecting it through the USP1 as I have analogue sources connected (turntable and an SACD player, both of which get very little use nowadays).
The Benchmark is up in a bedroom connected to a computer and headphones............. works well with AIFF files.
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Post by ajani on Dec 15, 2010 19:37:04 GMT -5
Interesting findings... I find my Benchmark sounds better than the XDA-1 in all areas... It is more detailed and not bright (the XDA is really starting to sound bright to me)...
Did you try adjusting the internal attenuators on the Benchmark from -20db to 0db? If not then that might explain why your results were so close....
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Post by bdripper on Dec 15, 2010 19:48:54 GMT -5
That would be a slap in the face for Benchmark to get beat out or be equaled by a $299 DAC. I have heard some fellow Head-Fi members say it don't hold a candle to the Benchmark or PS Audio D Link III
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Post by ripcordaff on Dec 15, 2010 20:05:13 GMT -5
That would be a slap in the face for Benchmark to get beat out or be equaled by a $299 DAC. I have heard some fellow Head-Fi members say it don't hold a candle to the Benchmark or PS Audio D Link III What didn't? The XDA? I have not seen it reviewed over there. And actually I think that it would not be a slap in the face, simply because the benchmark and PS are older designs. In the last year or so i have seen numerous DACs reviewed over there that are significantly less than the DAC1 or DLIII but "embarrass" them. The peachtree DACs and the audio GDs spring to mind. I am actually a little disappointed that the XDA is falling behind the DAC1 or PLIII (in the few reviews here). Given the trend, I was hoping that the XDA would handily beat those DACs.  |
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Post by navman on Dec 15, 2010 20:09:30 GMT -5
I say its a matter of taste which one is better, but if I were to pick which one is better I think the Benchmark is. The XDA can be fatiging comnpared to the DAC1 but I could imagine some would like the more defined edge that the XDA has.
For the price, the XDA1 is excellent, and for the time being is the one I will live with. It is very musical.
I did switch the attenuaters on the Benchmark to 0db.
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Post by navman on Dec 15, 2010 21:40:12 GMT -5
Just a thought. If one is to believe in "burn-in" and I certainly do, I believe some equipment more than others demonstrate its effects, then it would be fair to say that the XDA-1 in my system might not be fully broken in. The Benchmark has had many hours on it and seemed a bit too hard when I had first bought it. Today when listening to it critically, it was way smoother than when new. I would have to imagine the XDA-1 needs a few more hours on it, having about 4-5 so far. I dont know if anyone has played around with power cords to see if than has any bearing on its sound.
So far I am very happy with it. I remember I was very dissapointed with the Beresford I had bought years ago........... flat and lifeless, although people do swear by them. I also have a Chinese NOS DAC that is very pleasant, and musical but its a different sort of niceness to the DAC1 and XDA1.
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Post by ajani on Dec 15, 2010 21:52:41 GMT -5
That would be a slap in the face for Benchmark to get beat out or be equaled by a $299 DAC. I have heard some fellow Head-Fi members say it don't hold a candle to the Benchmark or PS Audio D Link III What didn't? The XDA? I have not seen it reviewed over there. And actually I think that it would not be a slap in the face, simply because the benchmark and PS are older designs. In the last year or so i have seen numerous DACs reviewed over there that are significantly less than the DAC1 or DLIII but "embarrass" them. The peachtree DACs and the audio GDs spring to mind. I am actually a little disappointed that the XDA is falling behind the DAC1 or PLIII (in the few reviews here). Given the trend, I was hoping that the XDA would handily beat those DACs. Every few months persons claim some new DAC obliterates the Benchmark... The PS Audio DLIII, Stello DA100 and the Lavry DA10 have all "worn that crown", yet interestingly enough in this month's HiFi Choice Blind Listening test, the Benchmark beat out all the contenders (including the Lavry, PS Audio and Stello)... So I don't really regard those claims that multiple cheap DACs defeat the Benchmark... Most of that is just down to listening preferences of users... |
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Post by Erwin.BE on Dec 16, 2010 5:00:32 GMT -5
What didn't? The XDA? I have not seen it reviewed over there. And actually I think that it would not be a slap in the face, simply because the benchmark and PS are older designs. In the last year or so i have seen numerous DACs reviewed over there that are significantly less than the DAC1 or DLIII but "embarrass" them. The peachtree DACs and the audio GDs spring to mind. I am actually a little disappointed that the XDA is falling behind the DAC1 or PLIII (in the few reviews here). Given the trend, I was hoping that the XDA would handily beat those DACs. Every few months persons claim some new DAC obliterates the Benchmark... The PS Audio DLIII, Stello DA100 and the Lavry DA10 have all "worn that crown", yet interestingly enough in this month's HiFi Choice Blind Listening test, the Benchmark beat out all the contenders (including the Lavry, PS Audio and Stello)... So I don't really regard those claims that multiple cheap DACs defeat the Benchmark... Most of that is just down to listening preferences of users... I have a subscription to HiFi Choice but didn't get it yet "this" month (Jan 2011...). While I enjoy reading it, I don't completely trust them. The Brit brands get the upper hand a bit to often to be believable. Anyways, just to say that claims for this or claims to that are just that, claims. Be it from professional reviewers or from actual users. Difficult to see the hidden agenda. A user may post a favourable review to please a friend or because he/she is a chauvinist, a pro may also plug the brands that spend on adds. There's one I trust 100% and that's The Audio Critic, Peter Aczel. He likes the Benchmark very much. Therefore, I was determined to get the DAC1 HDR a year ago. But decided to wait for the XDA-1 when it was anounced. But this Summer, a Weiss DAC2 for DAC1 HDR money had my name on it... I am very happy with my investment, but that's just my claim! |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 8:30:23 GMT -5
Every few months persons claim some new DAC obliterates the Benchmark... The PS Audio DLIII, Stello DA100 and the Lavry DA10 have all "worn that crown", yet interestingly enough in this month's HiFi Choice Blind Listening test, the Benchmark beat out all the contenders (including the Lavry, PS Audio and Stello)... So I don't really regard those claims that multiple cheap DACs defeat the Benchmark... Most of that is just down to listening preferences of users... I have a subscription to HiFi Choice but didn't get it yet "this" month (Jan 2011...). While I enjoy reading it, I don't completely trust them. The Brit brands get the upper hand a bit to often to be believable. Anyways, just to say that claims for this or claims to that are just that, claims. Be it from professional reviewers or from actual users. Difficult to see the hidden agenda. A user may post a favourable review to please a friend or because he/she is a chauvinist, a pro may also plug the brands that spend on adds. There's one I trust 100% and that's The Audio Critic, Peter Aczel. He likes the Benchmark very much. Therefore, I was determined to get the DAC1 HDR a year ago. But decided to wait for the XDA-1 when it was anounced. But this Summer, a Weiss DAC2 for DAC1 HDR money had my name on it... I am very happy with my investment, but that's just my claim! It's ironic that you say HiFi Choice gives the brit brands the upper hand, when in their conclusion for the test they had to admit that the best 3 DACs in the test (all scored 5 stars) were the American ones: Benchmark, PS Audio & Lavry... I don't take the opinion of any reviewer (whether pro or consumer) as gospel... At the end of the day it's really just an opinion... The audio critic is great for measurements, but even that assumes that we are able to measure everything that contributes to sound quality, which I don't believe... |
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Post by hokienation2 on Dec 16, 2010 8:44:24 GMT -5
Great thread. In my experience the difference between dacs at the end of the day seems to be minute. Try level setting in a blind comparison and it's really tough to distinguish well engineered dacs.
I was salivating over the bryston as a benchmark owner. I purchased the bryston and right out of the box it was lift off as the Bryston sounded more alive with better imaging and dare I say "musical".....that is until I pulled out my trusty spl meter. I think the bryston puts out double the voltage if memory serves.
When properly matched, the advantage was almost null. Apart from a slightly more forward presentation with the BM, I could not consistently tell them apart in a blind listening test (thanks to my wife for putting up with that). If emotiva has engineered a solid product at a fraction of the cost of most high end dacs then they should clean up and allow for more budget toward speakers and headphones. That's where I can hear night and day differences sq.
Just my 2 cents as an amateur dac/2-channel enthusiast.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 16, 2010 9:53:01 GMT -5
Great thread. In my experience the difference between dacs at the end of the day seems to be minute. Try level setting in a blind comparison and it's really tough to distinguish well engineered dacs. I was salivating over the bryston as a benchmark owner. I purchased the bryston and right out of the box it was lift off as the Bryston sounded more alive with better imaging and dare I say "musical".....that is until I pulled out my trusty spl meter. I think the bryston puts out double the voltage if memory serves. When properly matched, the advantage was almost null. Apart from a slightly more forward presentation with the BM, I could not consistently tell them apart in a blind listening test (thanks to my wife for putting up with that). If emotiva has engineered a solid product at a fraction of the cost of most high end dacs then they should clean up and allow for more budget toward speakers and headphones. That's where I can hear night and day differences sq. Just my 2 cents as an amateur dac/2-channel enthusiast. I have to agree with you. Just a decibel or two can make a difference when comparing something. The louder one will seem to bring out more details, mainly because you can hear them better. If you are focusing on one particular aspect of the sound character, that slightly louder one will then sound either better or worse depending on your feelings about that particular sound character. For example, the minute difference in levels can result in "better bass response" with equipment #1 or, "a slight exaggeration of the bass" with equipment #1, depending on your point of view. I'm not saying that there aren't differences among various pieces of equipment, but I bet that many of these "differences" are due primarily, if not totally due to unmatched volume levels. |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 10:19:39 GMT -5
Great thread. In my experience the difference between dacs at the end of the day seems to be minute. Try level setting in a blind comparison and it's really tough to distinguish well engineered dacs. I was salivating over the bryston as a benchmark owner. I purchased the bryston and right out of the box it was lift off as the Bryston sounded more alive with better imaging and dare I say "musical".....that is until I pulled out my trusty spl meter. I think the bryston puts out double the voltage if memory serves. When properly matched, the advantage was almost null. Apart from a slightly more forward presentation with the BM, I could not consistently tell them apart in a blind listening test (thanks to my wife for putting up with that). If emotiva has engineered a solid product at a fraction of the cost of most high end dacs then they should clean up and allow for more budget toward speakers and headphones. That's where I can hear night and day differences sq. Just my 2 cents as an amateur dac/2-channel enthusiast. I have to agree with you. Just a decibel or two can make a difference when comparing something. The louder one will seem to bring out more details, mainly because you can hear them better. If you are focusing on one particular aspect of the sound character, that slightly louder one will then sound either better or worse depending on your feelings about that particular sound character. For example, the minute difference in levels can result in "better bass response" with equipment #1 or, "a slight exaggeration of the bass" with equipment #1, depending on your point of view. I'm not saying that there aren't differences among various pieces of equipment, but I bet that many of these "differences" are due primarily, if not totally due to unmatched volume levels. Hmmm... I keep hearing that an old sales trick is to play the more expensive gear at a slightly higher volume than the cheaper gear, as it will sound better... Here's the thing, I find that my use of volume is as follows: When I like a product I am able to enjoy the volume at any setting, so I pretty much set and forget the volume control... When I don't like a product, I find myself constantly adjusting the volume... Products that I find bright and literally give me some hearing discomfort, always force me to keep turning down the volume... Products I find too boring always have me turning up the volume to try and get some excitement out of them... With my DAC 1 I can set and forget the volume... With the XDA1, I keep turning the volume down... |
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Post by airliner on Dec 16, 2010 10:35:34 GMT -5
So, you don't like the sound it produces, have problem/issues with the volume setting...... why don't you just return it?
It will became one of the first Bstock XDA-1, and i'll buy it.
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 10:46:38 GMT -5
So, you don't like the sound it produces, have problem/issues with the volume setting...... why don't you just return it? It will became one of the first Bstock XDA-1, and i'll buy it. Because I'm an overseas customer, so I'll lose $120 on shipping + have hell to get the duties I paid on it reimbursed from the government... If I was in the US, I'd just send it back and buy something else... |
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Post by airliner on Dec 16, 2010 10:53:49 GMT -5
Where is overseas, I migth help you, Marco
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Post by merlinwerks on Dec 16, 2010 11:01:52 GMT -5
I'm not saying that there aren't differences among various pieces of equipment, but I bet that many of these "differences" are due primarily, if not totally due to unmatched volume levels. Well that and the fact that audio memory is extremely unreliable and very easily massaged. If it takes someone more than a couple milliseconds to switch between the two things being compared then the results are highly suspect and you're really only fooling yourself as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly fooled myself many times ;D I've said before if more people had the means to do level matched/instantly switched A/B comparisons, there would probably be about half the audio companies that we have now. |
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Post by DYohn on Dec 16, 2010 11:04:57 GMT -5
I'm not saying that there aren't differences among various pieces of equipment, but I bet that many of these "differences" are due primarily, if not totally due to unmatched volume levels. Well that and the fact that audio memory is extremely unreliable and very easily massaged. If it takes someone more than a couple milliseconds to switch between the two things being compared then the results are highly suspect and you're really only fooling yourself as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly fooled myself many times ;D I've said before if more people had the means to do level matched/instantly switched A/B comparisons, there would probably be about half the audio companies that we have now. This is very true and why I like to use meters for comparisons. Numbers can be compared far easier than can subjective "this sounds good" impressions.  |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 16, 2010 11:18:41 GMT -5
Well that and the fact that audio memory is extremely unreliable and very easily massaged. If it takes someone more than a couple milliseconds to switch between the two things being compared then the results are highly suspect and you're really only fooling yourself as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly fooled myself many times ;D I've said before if more people had the means to do level matched/instantly switched A/B comparisons, there would probably be about half the audio companies that we have now. This is very true and why I like to use meters for comparisons. Numbers can be compared far easier than can subjective "this sounds good" impressions. Yeah but where's the fun in that? ;D |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 11:24:14 GMT -5
An interesting assumption made here:
That an instantaneous switch is the best way to test for differences... Is it really? If I show you 2 pictures that are almost identical except for one small difference, is the best way to determine that difference to do a quick back and forth between the two pics?
The first time I tried the XDA-1 in a quick back and forth with the DAC1, I thought it was pretty close and was very impressed (as seen in the preliminary reviews I posted on it), however after 2 weeks of having it in my system, I find it bright and somewhat irritating...
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Post by navman on Dec 16, 2010 12:03:45 GMT -5
Ajani, have you tried using different power cables? I know some gear is sensitive to those kind of tweaks. Also, is there a perceptible burn in with time where it does smooth out?
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