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Post by ripcordaff on Jan 13, 2011 0:50:40 GMT -5
I currently have an XDA going straight to two UPA-1s which power a small set of towers. I am thinking about upgrading to nice bookshelves and going with a one or two Emo ultra subs. However, I have been mulling bass management and I must admit that I am stumped.
I am going XLR from the XDA to the UPA so my RCAs are free and I know that it would be possible to feed the subs with the RCA signal from the XDA (and of course utilize the crossover on the subs). However, I think I would need to cross the signal to the bookshelves. I don't want to be pushing the speakers very hard with full range signals going to them.
I know the USP has bass management, but Lonnie himself that the output stages in USP are not quite up to the XDA level. I believe he has said that one would need to the XSP route in order to maximize the sound quality from the XDA (or straight to the amp obviously). However, I cant bring myself to spend 700-800 bucks just for the crossover functionality of the XSP. I only have one digital source and thus nearly every other functionality of the XSP would be wasted.
There has to be another way. Has anyone else devised a novel solution? I have heard about these FMOD in-line passive crossovers, but I fear that they may degrade sound quality.
Thanks in advance!!
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Post by joel on Jan 13, 2011 5:53:58 GMT -5
I have the exact same problem, would love if someone had a solution to this.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 13, 2011 6:37:58 GMT -5
Simple, elegant and can be tweaked: www.minidsp.com/There are a couple of 2.1 modules (software). However, you will need to invest in some test equipment and learn how to at least use an RTA or something like REW (REW has an RTA built in). |
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Post by jackfish on Jan 13, 2011 8:01:49 GMT -5
If you could use the XLR to your sub instead you could then use the RCA with these for your bookshelves: www.hlabs.com/products/crossover/They are a passive device, I doubt their effect on sound quality can be discerned. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 13, 2011 9:36:21 GMT -5
The minidsp with 2.1 plugin looks sweet. I'd be all over that if I didn't already get the BFD DSP1124.
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kazoo
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 359
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Post by kazoo on Jan 13, 2011 10:37:17 GMT -5
Here is another option.
Paradigm X-30 active crossover.
I have one of these and they work good.
I bought it to control DIY subs I made a while back.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 13, 2011 10:57:39 GMT -5
The minidsp with 2.1 plugin looks sweet. I'd be all over that if I didn't already get the BFD DSP1124. I got a BFD too just before getting the first MiniDSP (ordered 2 more today) and plan to sell it now.  |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,366
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Post by DYohn on Jan 13, 2011 11:13:31 GMT -5
The minidsp with 2.1 plugin looks sweet. I'd be all over that if I didn't already get the BFD DSP1124. I got a BFD too just before getting the first MiniDSP (ordered 2 more today) and plan to sell it now. Nemesis, you really like the MiniDSP and I must say it looks intriguing, especially for the price. I assume it comes with the software necessary to control it. It there a screen shot of the software anywhere I can look at? Thanks! |
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Post by eusebio on Jan 13, 2011 13:53:48 GMT -5
i currently run a full range signal from the XDA-1 to my ERM 6.2s. would i notice an improvement in sound quality if i was able to just pass on the frequencies above 80 to my bookshelves? am i harming the speakers by running them full range?
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,366
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Post by DYohn on Jan 13, 2011 14:36:47 GMT -5
i currently run a full range signal from the XDA-1 to my ERM 6.2s. would i notice an improvement in sound quality if i was able to just pass on the frequencies above 80 to my bookshelves? am i harming the speakers by running them full range? You will not harm your speakers unless the power level is too high. If you hear them making mechanical banging noises on loud low bass passages then they could use a high-pass crossover. Otherwise it's no problem. |
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Post by ripcordaff on Jan 13, 2011 15:37:35 GMT -5
i currently run a full range signal from the XDA-1 to my ERM 6.2s. would i notice an improvement in sound quality if i was able to just pass on the frequencies above 80 to my bookshelves? am i harming the speakers by running them full range? You will not harm your speakers unless the power level is too high. If you hear them making mechanical banging noises on loud low bass passages then they could use a high-pass crossover. Otherwise it's no problem. Perhaps not harm them, but I personally can quite clearly hear the sound of my current bookshelves (different system) start to sound congested\bloated\like-crap when the volume requires more bass performance than the little woofers can provide. Though undoubtedly adding a sub would mask that sound somewhat, i'd prefer to eliminate it all together. |
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Post by Trey on Jan 13, 2011 17:49:05 GMT -5
I got a BFD too just before getting the first MiniDSP (ordered 2 more today) and plan to sell it now. Nemesis, you really like the MiniDSP and I must say it looks intriguing, especially for the price. I assume it comes with the software necessary to control it. It there a screen shot of the software anywhere I can look at? Thanks! Here is a setup guide: www.hifizine.com/2010/09/subwoofer-equalization-and-integration-with-the-minidsp-2x4/ |
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Post by kellys on Jan 13, 2011 18:21:31 GMT -5
It should be mentioned that any active, passive or digital crossover on the output of the XDA will change the sound quality, most likely for the worse. Your best bet would be a very high quality passive crossover. If you put the miniDSP in, you are adding another AD and DA conversion, and listening to the miniDSPs DAC.
It appears that the miniDigi and miniDSP combo might work though. You would intercept the SPDIF signal before the XDA with the miniDigi, implement a 2.1 output and output 2.0 to the XDA and .1 to the miniDSP output. I am not sure if this is possible though. It would be an interesting project.
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Post by sanjaygolf on Jan 13, 2011 19:50:25 GMT -5
i currently run a full range signal from the XDA-1 to my ERM 6.2s. would i notice an improvement in sound quality if i was able to just pass on the frequencies above 80 to my bookshelves? am i harming the speakers by running them full range? Do you have a sub as well? You're not gonna damage your speakers by sending them a full signal; they're just not gonna be able to produce those frequencies. Crossing over at 80 will put less strain on your amp and could improve the sound but that's only if your amp was struggling to begin with. |
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Post by eusebio on Jan 13, 2011 20:42:10 GMT -5
I have 2 emo ultra 10s. Xda to 7.1 inputs of my avr, and then outputs to my upa-5 and subs
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jan 13, 2011 20:44:06 GMT -5
i currently run a full range signal from the XDA-1 to my ERM 6.2s. would i notice an improvement in sound quality if i was able to just pass on the frequencies above 80 to my bookshelves? am i harming the speakers by running them full range? Do you have a sub as well? You're not gonna damage your speakers by sending them a full signal; they're just not gonna be able to produce those frequencies. Crossing over at 80 will put less strain on your amp and could improve the sound but that's only if your amp was struggling to begin with. I strongly suggest you read: sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#intermodSpecifically: 1.7 - Intermodulation Distortion Rod Elliott's site is a wealth of information in general! |
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Post by eusebio on Jan 14, 2011 14:30:35 GMT -5
Do you have a sub as well? You're not gonna damage your speakers by sending them a full signal; they're just not gonna be able to produce those frequencies. Crossing over at 80 will put less strain on your amp and could improve the sound but that's only if your amp was struggling to begin with. I strongly suggest you read: sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#intermodSpecifically: 1.7 - Intermodulation Distortion Rod Elliott's site is a wealth of information in general! is he saying that if you aren't actively biamping, your single amp is going to distort the sound because it is blending the high and low frequencies? |
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Post by kellys on Jan 14, 2011 23:04:02 GMT -5
He is saying, if you bi-amp, go active.
I sent an email to the miniDSP people. Apparently the miniDSP/miniDIGI combo can take the spdif input and create a filtered spdif output and an analogue sub output. At $185, it's not the cheapest and limits you to one input.
Edited to clarify the sub output is analogue...
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mrla
Minor Hero
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Post by mrla on Jan 15, 2011 21:04:32 GMT -5
why do you want to complicate your setup with more electronics/xovers if you're just to add subwoofer to the connection?
run your bookshelves full range
run the other pair of output to your powered subwoofer(s)
set the xover on your subwoofer and gain control to your liking...that is all you need to do.
remmeber, when you add a sub to aid your bookshelves in the lower frequency area you're automatically make your system sound louder, audibly.
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Post by Vespid on Jan 16, 2011 9:37:24 GMT -5
I'm using the FMOD's for high pass (70Hz) to my "satellites" and I'm very satisfied with the result. The integration with the sub to my ears is seamless. Fortunately, my sub has a balanced input (XLR) option, so it couldn't be much simpler for the overall connection set up since the FMODS use the unbalanced outputs from the XDA-1. I would rather do it the other way around, balanced to the satellite amps and unbalanced to sub, but I haven't found an acceptable XLR type connector high pass solution that will allow me to do that. I guess you could use an xlr to rca adapter to fmod to rca to xlr adapter, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the effort / benefit ratio of doing that. I'm thinking net zero on that one. One draw back to using in-line passive filters is that unless you pretty much know where you want to high pass your satellites, buying more than a few sets to just play around with a crossover frequency will probably have you spending more than you want for that exercise. That mini-dsp looks awesome, I may get one of those just to play around with it. Thanks for sharing that link nemisis. That looks like a possible solution for a balanced in-line high pass crossover, but I'd be a little hesitant to put another AD-DA converter in the stream. I think most people utilizing an XDA-1 as a preamp are trying to get as many conversion and processing components as possible out of the stream. The mini-dsp may add or subtract nothing sonically from the preamp signal other than filter when using it as a high pass xover, but my first inclination would be that it does. Regarding the benefit of using high pass to bookshelf or satellite speakers, that is a very good thing, if for no other reason than if you like to turn up the volume. Just because those mid-woofer drivers in your satellite speakers don't produce any sound in the lower frequency's, doesn't mean they don't "try" to do something with that low frequency energy when it's fed to them. If it didn't matter, why bother with crossovers at all, just feed everything a full range signal.  |
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