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Post by monkumonku on Mar 12, 2011 19:05:08 GMT -5
DYohn, Nice writeup.. I like Bluejeans. They are right to the point (no bull).. The best part, is all the design criteria can be fufilled without breaking the bank. They have indicated that capacitance does make a difference for high-frequency roll-off. That is that the cable effectively becomes a low pass filter. I would suggest, however, that these effects really don't come into play unless the cable is really long. For a standard 3ft or 6ft cable, even if you choose a very high capacitance per foot (lets say 50 pf/ft) the roll-off frequency would still be way above the audible band. I use Bluejeans. They are well-made and reasonably priced. I like how you can order specific lengths, too.  |
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
Posts: 27
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Post by azsoundman on Mar 12, 2011 19:35:16 GMT -5
Bob,
I could not agree with you more. Now just as a point of reference, I have done some listening with my own system, where I have had the opportunity to audition both regular Audioquest cables and some very high end cables (JPS Labs)
Have their been differences? YES. Are their measurements or
data that completely EXPLAIN what you hear? NO.
The greatest difference I've found is in copper vs. silver and in what ratio the metals are used and in both the construction of the cables and the purity of the metal. Is there a point of diminishing returns? ABSOLUTELY. Where the value ends, is up to each individual and their perception of the final end product. Cost is not always indicative of performance either.
Hearing is No different than our own sense of smell or taste. Is it the same for everybody? WHO KNOWS. Since none of us can put ourselves directly into the body of another person HOW can you
say we ALL experience the same sense of something exactly the same as another individual? YOU CAN'T. Some folks hear a difference in amplifiers, cables, speaker wire and power cords.
Others do not, Does that mean their is NO difference and its ALL in our heads? I DON'T THINK SO.
This discussion will continue till the end of time. Their is NO correct answer, NO Definitive Truth, NO set of statistics or measurements that can either prove or disprove that it does or does not exist. You have a right to believe in what you find is the TRUTH for yourself. But you CANNOT say that it doesn't exist
for someone else...
For an interesting perspective on cables and cable theory, visit
the Audioquest website and read their 28 pages of 'WHY' under
cable theory.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 12, 2011 20:58:52 GMT -5
Amen!
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Post by Glen F on Mar 12, 2011 22:07:01 GMT -5
Is it on a 20amp(12ga) or 15amp(14ga) circuit? Do you have high grade commercial outlets? Just curious.. Common sense seems that plugging a overbuilt 6' cord into a cheap residential outlet and circuit won't make anything better. Unless you have the same quality from the meter to the device.?? But hey if it sounds better then great. IF these people ever saw the conditions their power line goes through for the ten miles before they get to their house, the idea that fixing the last three feet would make a difference, would evaporate. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 12, 2011 22:21:00 GMT -5
I wish that I could spend a lot more time here and discuss things, but I have found it of little purpose to provide a lot of information on the subject because too few people care or understand it anyways. If anybody want to explain what a designer of a good cable is trying to do to improve sound, I would love to discuss these. But there are too many things people believe a good cable does to just break out a discussion. I got you 100% Stu. Some days we are more inclined to elaborate a little more than others. And it's true that often the energy that you can put into one subject won't necessarily be reciprocated by others. You have to let people be their own masters of discussions. Sometimes the 'fishing' is good, and other times it's just too good! ...You know, the very few people that keep coming at it? And they'll ask thousands of questions that are all the same! And no matter all the various ways in your answers, they'll never see their own answer to their question. But these people are very few and between, fortunately. We all have our moments of deep passion.  I'm just enjoying reading it. I have my feelings about it and for now, I'll keep them to myself. That would take away the enjoyment of this thread for me. I love a good debate viewing from the outside, too! |
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Post by thepcguy on Mar 13, 2011 0:08:04 GMT -5
Bob, I could not agree with you more. Now just as a point of reference, I have done some listening with my own system, where I have had the opportunity to audition both regular Audioquest cables and some very high end cables (JPS Labs) Have their been differences? YES. Are their measurements or data that completely EXPLAIN what you hear? NO. The greatest difference I've found is in copper vs. silver and in what ratio the metals are used and in both the construction of the cables and the purity of the metal. Is there a point of diminishing returns? ABSOLUTELY. Where the value ends, is up to each individual and their perception of the final end product. Cost is not always indicative of performance either. Hearing is No different than our own sense of smell or taste. Is it the same for everybody? WHO KNOWS. Since none of us can put ourselves directly into the body of another person HOW can you say we ALL experience the same sense of something exactly the same as another individual? YOU CAN'T. Some folks hear a difference in amplifiers, cables, speaker wire and power cords. Others do not, Does that mean their is NO difference and its ALL in our heads? I DON'T THINK SO. I am 100% sure you have done your listening with your eyes wide open. Meaning, you knew which cable is playing. |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2011 0:29:02 GMT -5
I was waiting for you Pcguy! It is always fun when you post!  |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2011 0:32:49 GMT -5
I got you 100% Stu. Some days we are more inclined to elaborate a little more than others. And it's true that often the energy that you can put into one subject won't necessarily be reciprocated by others. You have to let people be their own masters of discussions. Sometimes the 'fishing' is good, and other times it's just too good! ...You know, the very few people that keep coming at it? And they'll ask thousands of questions that are all the same! And no matter all the various ways in your answers, they'll never see their own answer to their question. But these people are very few and between, fortunately. We all have our moments of deep passion. I'm just enjoying reading it. I have my feelings about it and for now, I'll keep them to myself. That would take away the enjoyment of this thread for me. I love a good debate viewing from the outside, too! George my man you're just too funny, as always, I like you! |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 13, 2011 13:31:29 GMT -5
Bob, I could not agree with you more. Now just as a point of reference, I have done some listening with my own system, where I have had the opportunity to audition both regular Audioquest cables and some very high end cables (JPS Labs) Have their been differences? YES. Are their measurements or data that completely EXPLAIN what you hear? NO. The greatest difference I've found is in copper vs. silver and in what ratio the metals are used and in both the construction of the cables and the purity of the metal. Is there a point of diminishing returns? ABSOLUTELY. Where the value ends, is up to each individual and their perception of the final end product. Cost is not always indicative of performance either. Hearing is No different than our own sense of smell or taste. Is it the same for everybody? WHO KNOWS. Since none of us can put ourselves directly into the body of another person HOW can you say we ALL experience the same sense of something exactly the same as another individual? YOU CAN'T. Some folks hear a difference in amplifiers, cables, speaker wire and power cords. Others do not, Does that mean their is NO difference and its ALL in our heads? I DON'T THINK SO. I am 100% sure you have done your listening with your eyes wide open. Meaning, you knew which cable is playing. Agreed... I have not yet seen someone who can pickout two compentently build cables blind.. |
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Post by briank on Mar 13, 2011 14:48:28 GMT -5
I can. :-). Power cords not included as I haven't played around with them yet.
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Post by thepcguy on Mar 13, 2011 15:57:26 GMT -5
I can. :-). Power cords not included as I haven't played around with them yet. I'd bet you did it ALONE. ;D |
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
Posts: 27
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Post by azsoundman on Mar 13, 2011 19:08:01 GMT -5
To pcguy & stuofsci02;
I love the assumptions both of you make categorically without even asking.
It really shows your emotional maturity level.
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 13, 2011 19:19:35 GMT -5
Maturity level?
Go back and reread your post in this thread and then lets talk maturity level..
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Post by briank on Mar 13, 2011 20:53:55 GMT -5
Actually, PC Guy, I have done blind testing with different ic's and speaker cables and could identify which cable was playing. I also discovered that the ability to distinguish the differences between cables improved with practice. Also, with some cables it's almost impossible to tell apart while others it's quite noticeable. So, forgive me if I trust my own ears over your opinion. :-)
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Post by orangeLollies on Mar 13, 2011 22:30:25 GMT -5
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 13, 2011 22:55:52 GMT -5
Sam, I think to refer about "emotional maturity level" is not really relevant to this thread, or any thread for that matter.
You're a good man, and I know you can do better.
Your true friend,
Bob
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Post by thepcguy on Mar 14, 2011 1:20:03 GMT -5
Actually, PC Guy, I have done blind testing with different ic's and speaker cables and could identify which cable was playing. I also discovered that the ability to distinguish the differences between cables improved with practice. Also, with some cables it's almost impossible to tell apart while others it's quite noticeable. So, forgive me if I trust my own ears over your opinion. :-) It's not opinion. It is EXPERIENCE. I've been in this hobby since 1976 and did blind testing with friends. With family too. It is not blind testing if you do it alone. ;D |
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
Posts: 27
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Post by azsoundman on Mar 14, 2011 1:54:15 GMT -5
I'm sure you have YOUR experience, which leads to YOUR opinion which you belief is Fact for you.
However others ALSO have had their experience, which leads them to a different opinion which they
also believe is Fact for them! You cannot state as FACT that your experience is universal for everyone,
because for many of us its not! It is in fact nothing more than YOUR opinion. Oh, BTW I've been in this
hobby longer than you have, and also have done blind listening tests as well, so don't try to use that as justification for you being right and everyone else is wrong...
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Post by thepcguy on Mar 14, 2011 2:09:00 GMT -5
I'm sure you have YOUR experience, which leads to YOUR opinion which you belief is Fact for you. However others ALSO have had their experience, which leads them to a different opinion which they also believe is Fact for them! You cannot state as FACT that your experience is universal for everyone, because for many of us its not! It is in fact nothing more than YOUR opinion. Oh, BTW I've been in this hobby longer than you have, and also have done blind listening tests as well, so don't try to use that as justification for you being right and everyone else is wrong... The only way to settle this is for me to personally see how you perform your BLIND testing. Let me know if you are willing to do that. |
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iceman66
Emo VIPs 
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" The Great One
Posts: 1,083
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Post by iceman66 on Mar 14, 2011 2:15:48 GMT -5
I'm sure you have YOUR experience, which leads to YOUR opinion which you belief is Fact for you. However others ALSO have had their experience, which leads them to a different opinion which they also believe is Fact for them! You cannot state as FACT that your experience is universal for everyone, because for many of us its not! It is in fact nothing more than YOUR opinion. Oh, BTW I've been in this hobby longer than you have, and also have done blind listening tests as well, so don't try to use that as justification for you being right and everyone else is wrong... The only way to settle this is for me to personally see how you perform your BLIND testing. Let me know if you are willing to do that. While you are at it, could you do a blind test and see if the DBS system on his AQ speaker cables make any difference. TIA |
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