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Post by rclark on Mar 16, 2011 1:25:20 GMT -5
So I've got mine, and I love it, but I'm curious about it. There are no professional reviews.
There are some forum people who have commented on it, but I was kind of hoping to have a better idea of where it sits in the DAC food chain compared to other DAC's.
Emotiva touts it as punching above its weight or competing against DAC's that cost more, but it would be nice to know more about that, to see more comparisons, or any, even just one, professionally.
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Post by alhull on Mar 17, 2011 13:42:53 GMT -5
Yeah - how does this modest $300 DAC stand up against the Weiss 202 that costs $6,700 ?!?
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Mar 17, 2011 14:07:34 GMT -5
Yeah - how does this modest $300 DAC stand up against the Weiss 202 that costs $6,700 ?!? If you have the $$ to consider the Weiss or any other big dollar gear, would you even give a budget option like the XDA a second glance? In most cases I think not. Not that I wouldn't like to see a comparison, but I take all pro reviews with a grain of salt - or 2. |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 17, 2011 14:20:17 GMT -5
I just ordered the Grant Fidelity DAC-09 today (tube DAC from China) for shits and giggles. It was $215 shipped and is supposed to compete with much pricier units. I will compare this to my Oppo-83SE which has been my benchmark so far. The only thing I have heard that I like better then my Oppo was the Chord QBD76 at $6k. Of course I have not compared to too many others (Rotel RCD-1072, Cambridge DAC Magic, Squeezebox Touch Internal DAC, CHord Peach).
I suspect I will use it in my second system..
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Post by rclark on Mar 17, 2011 14:23:27 GMT -5
I also take reviews with a grain of salt, but if you get enough of them, it starts to give you an average idea. And as for the Weiss wisecrack, I'm sure I wasn't holding out hope that the XDA would be compared to a $6000 unit, and I didn't think I needed to specify a price range for said reviews. I kinda thought that would be obvious.  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 17, 2011 14:51:06 GMT -5
The DAC-09 is an excellent headphone amp. It's what I use mine for...
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flyhigh
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Post by flyhigh on Mar 17, 2011 17:15:23 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see John Atkinson (Stereophile) take a whack at some of the more cost-effective DACs out there. JA has a nice battery of tests to measure the DAC resolution, etc, and has tested some of the heavy hitters. Two that stand out are the Logitech Transporter, and Benchmark DAC...both which weigh in at 20bits resolution, and obscenely low noise floors. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall any that have outperformed those two in testing. Hard data, and a standardized methodology is tough to dispute, and in the case of a DAC...is far better than "Wow man....this thing rocks!"
That said, some of these $5-6K units had better do some amazing things to earn that price tag!! I have serious doubts...
The XDA wouldn't have to turn in a award winning, unheard of performance to represent a good value. "Damned good" would suffice.
I think Emo is on the right path with a lot of their products. High performance/High value. It's only a matter of time before the "media" spotlight turns their way.
At the end of the day, what really matters is your satisfaction, and enjoyment. A "bit" this way or that won't change that appreciably, but a multi-thousand dollar hole in your savings will!
Enjoy!
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Post by rclark on Mar 17, 2011 17:16:11 GMT -5
I take it back, no, I would love to know how the XDA stands up to a $6000 dac.
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flyhigh
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Post by flyhigh on Mar 17, 2011 17:31:06 GMT -5
Probably a lot closer than you think!
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 18, 2011 7:20:09 GMT -5
The DAC-09 is an excellent headphone amp. It's what I use mine for... Good to know.. I want interested in trying this too.. Have you used it as a straight DAC? If so, what were your impressions. Thanks, Stuart |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 18, 2011 7:21:01 GMT -5
Probably a lot closer than you think! Close is a relative term.. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 18, 2011 7:30:36 GMT -5
Probably a lot closer than you think! Close is a relative term.. Especially with close relatives. ;D |
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Mar 18, 2011 8:00:34 GMT -5
Probably a lot closer than you think! Close is a relative term.. Especially in atomic bombs and nuclear plant meltdowns........ |
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Post by flyhigh on Mar 18, 2011 8:47:42 GMT -5
Probably a lot closer than you think! Close is a relative term.. I dunno. A DAC either "does"...or "does not". DAC resolution is testable, and there is no subjectivity involved. I certainly can't do the testing, but there are those who can! With a 24bit DAC, 19bits rez is not 20. 20 is not 21. Then again, the audibility of those last few LSBs needs to be considered, if one believes that they can hear signals at -120, -130db....decide then what it's worth to you. What happens to the audio Post-DAC is open for debate, but! If a person is paying mega-bucks for such a DAC ...it better well prove it's superiority. That's why I'd like to see some of the more affordable units tested. It might be really surprising to see how they do. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 18, 2011 9:16:51 GMT -5
Close is a relative term.. I dunno. A DAC either "does"...or "does not". DAC resolution is testable, and there is no subjectivity involved. I certainly can't do the testing, but there are those who can! With a 24bit DAC, 19bits rez is not 20. 20 is not 21. Then again, the audibility of those last few LSBs needs to be considered, if one believes that they can hear signals at -120, -130db....decide then what it's worth to you. What happens to the audio Post-DAC is open for debate, but! If a person is paying mega-bucks for such a DAC ...it better well prove it's superiority. That's why I'd like to see some of the more affordable units tested. It might be really surprising to see how they do. That brings up the issue, while something may be testable and measurable as you said, and two units can be compared with the results, the question is are those differences audible? Like say for example two sports cars are tested and one that costs $300,000 is able to achieve a top speed of 289 mph and the other that costs $200,000 is only able to go 250 mph. Does that really make any practical difference for the majority of people? One might say that the faster car exhibits better engineering, construction, etc. which enables it to be the faster car and thus it is a better product but would that necessarily translate into that "better" aspect being discernable by the user? Or would it mainly be the satisfaction of knowing you owned the faster car even though you never drive over 90 mph and really don't physically experience any benefits of owning the faster car? |
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Post by cgolf on Mar 18, 2011 9:28:16 GMT -5
I dunno. A DAC either "does"...or "does not". DAC resolution is testable, and there is no subjectivity involved. I certainly can't do the testing, but there are those who can! With a 24bit DAC, 19bits rez is not 20. 20 is not 21. Then again, the audibility of those last few LSBs needs to be considered, if one believes that they can hear signals at -120, -130db....decide then what it's worth to you. What happens to the audio Post-DAC is open for debate, but! If a person is paying mega-bucks for such a DAC ...it better well prove it's superiority. That's why I'd like to see some of the more affordable units tested. It might be really surprising to see how they do. That brings up the issue, while something may be testable and measurable as you said, and two units can be compared with the results, the question is are those differences audible? Like say for example two sports cars are tested and one that costs $300,000 is able to achieve a top speed of 289 mph and the other that costs $200,000 is only able to go 250 mph. Does that really make any practical difference for the majority of people? One might say that the faster car exhibits better engineering, construction, etc. which enables it to be the faster car and thus it is a better product but would that necessarily translate into that "better" aspect being discernable by the user? Or would it mainly be the satisfaction of knowing you owned the faster car even though you never drive over 90 mph and really don't physically experience any benefits of owning the faster car? Much of this is the idea of perception is reality, just knowing I have the best or better or whatever (even if it isn't I think it is because that was what I was told ;D). Cables, dacs, speakers, cars, amps, etc. and on and on. It's like the alcoholic who says "I just want one more drink". ;D If I can only afford a $400 dac, it will sound great to me....  We all do it with something whether it truly matters or not.  |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 18, 2011 9:38:28 GMT -5
That brings up the issue, while something may be testable and measurable as you said, and two units can be compared with the results, the question is are those differences audible? Like say for example two sports cars are tested and one that costs $300,000 is able to achieve a top speed of 289 mph and the other that costs $200,000 is only able to go 250 mph. Does that really make any practical difference for the majority of people? One might say that the faster car exhibits better engineering, construction, etc. which enables it to be the faster car and thus it is a better product but would that necessarily translate into that "better" aspect being discernable by the user? Or would it mainly be the satisfaction of knowing you owned the faster car even though you never drive over 90 mph and really don't physically experience any benefits of owning the faster car? Much of this is the idea of perception is reality, just knowing I have the best or better or whatever (even if it isn't I think it is because that was what I was told ;D). Cables, dacs, speakers, cars, amps, etc. and on and on. It's like the alcoholic who says "I just want one more drink". ;D If I can only afford a $400 dac, it will sound great to me.... We all do it with something whether it truly matters or not. Well I can certainly empathize with what I wrote when it comes to audio gear. ;D |
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Post by flyhigh on Mar 18, 2011 9:45:05 GMT -5
As most of the folks here are well aware, this issue has been a part of "high end" (and many other endeavors) since long before any of us were here. There is a point where price increases exponentially, while the benefits of that added expense diminish at an equal, and opposite rate. Everybody remembers the Haflers and Adcoms. Products that delivered the goods in spades, and were technically impressive as well. Even though they typically DID compare well to the most exotic designs of the day...they just couldn't be taken too seriously by the audio elite. They simply didn't cost enough. Anybody could afford one, and that fact alone ruled them out. Exclusivity, and "mine was more expensive" was/is the goal for many, and in a sighted comparison....the $10,000 component will always sound better than the $500 one. Especially if the reviewers are still palpitating over said component. Once the reviews begin to slide, and the "MkII" unit comes out.....the component begins to lose it lustre. It doesn't sound as good. It gets a little veiled..... (you don't suppose there was perhaps a psychological element here do you?) With these DACs? All things being equal...one may offer a more desirable feature set...or more flexibility in connectivity. That would differentiate them to the consumer. Perfectly reasonable. Given the rate of advancement in computer technology (which is all this is), I wouldn't invest HEAVILY in a component that will likely soon be outmoded. On the other hand, taking two identical performing circuits....and sticking one in a machined billet box with a luxury name plate does NOT warrant a price increase of several multiples. That's why I spent my own money on an Emo product. If it performs well....it's good, and I don't need a fancy nametag, or a huge invoice to prove it to myself. I can simply listen.  |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 18, 2011 10:28:58 GMT -5
flyhigh,
I certainly understand what you are saying... BUT... a DAC is not just computer technology. While I agree that the DAC chip itself may perform similarily to another DAC, most of the design of a well implemented DAC is still in the analog circuit. This is why Emo says the XDA-1 sounds better then the ERC-1 despite them both using the DAC chip.
Now, where to draw the line it up to each person.. The $6000 Chord DAC I listened to was clearly better then my Oppo-83SE (that there is no doubt). The 83SE is supposed to be around the same level as the XDA-1. Was the Chord $5600 dollars better? That is for each person to decide for themselves.
I can tell you this. There are tons of people out there with lots of money, who wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $6k for the best DAC. At the end of the day all these 5% improvements start to add up and make a good system a great system.
For a lot of people, 80% of the way there (which I think you can get with good budget components) is enough. For other, they want the absolute best money can buy.
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Post by flyhigh on Mar 18, 2011 11:06:12 GMT -5
We probably are in agreement more than it might seem. Taking a purely objective stance however, I don't want to buy a premium priced DAC that offers nothing more than standard DAC performance....with an analog output that is tailored for a "high end" sound, which is often anything but neutral. That's not why I'd invest in an aftermarket DAC. It's a coloration, and it's not the best regardless of what reviewers tell me. You see this all the time. If it's a little boring as is? Stick a tube in it. Voila! Extra audiophile points. There's a few good references out there, and if somebody wants to charge a LOT more for their product....it needs to outperform those. If the Emo XDA is within striking distance of the best, then it represents an achievement, a good value, and calls into question the sensibility of spending HUGE money. Money that would likely buy a bigger improvement in sound elsewhere in the system. but I have no real opinion on the matter...  |
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