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Post by rclark on May 1, 2011 2:02:52 GMT -5
" recently had the opportunity to do a home audition of the DB Audio Labs Tranquility USB Dac. Boy, what a privilege it was to hear this new dac. It has a really nice build quality and the nice beefy connectors on the back. I set it up next to what I thought was a stellar CD player, especially after modifying it, my Jas Musik 1.2. I bought this player last year as it sonically won out against players like the Rega Apollo and all the Cambridge models. Yet the Tranquility DAC just trounced my player. There was no comparison! It was cleaner, clearer, had a lower noise floor and had sustain and decay much like analog does, the midrange had a more fluid presentation and the bass was deeper and had better pitch definition. It was unlike anything I?ve heard before at this price (or any for that matter) and it?s mind baffling they are selling for under a grand. Hell, even at its list price of $1495 it is a real steal in my opinion. I know I haven't heard everything out there but I believe that this Tranquility Dac must be setting some sort of new standards for digital playback.
I proceeded to compare it to my buddies $9K AMR player at his house and his AMR is VERY well reviewed. This player, as good as it is, sounded more digital - like, where the trailing ends of musical notes ended much more abruptly and the Tranquility had sustain and decay that just kept going right till the next note. Plus the Tranquility?s ability to sound natural and fluid was better too. I remember my quest for a CD player under $2K. It seemed a little disappointing that I had to accept some sort of sonic compromise for anything I heard near that price. Models such as the Cambridge Audio 840c and Rega Apollo sounding a bit glossy and shut in compared to players I couldn?t really afford (and I don't care what the reviewers say about these CD players, that's how they sounded to my ears!). "
taken from just one review
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Post by rclark on May 3, 2011 2:44:34 GMT -5
check out these bad boys, my god! look at that one preamp with the seperate box for power! Like the way Bryston does it. $1400. And the other one is about a grand, and look at how built they are! www.audio-gd.com/Pro/pre/C39/C39MK3EN.htm I've been reading reviews on this company's gear, very highly regarded. |
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Post by sidvicious on May 3, 2011 5:47:24 GMT -5
Have you considered tube amplification? I know what you are talking about and the sound that you are trying to get, regarding the airness around the instruments. The Usp-1 is a good start, but you are looking to take it up a couple of levels. I just bought a used Belles 20A (04-30-11) that I'm going to have retubed and recapped, and although this is an older preamp, it blows the Usp-1 out of the water. I will be posting a review after the modifications, plus it has balanced outputs. Please don't be afraid to try some of the excellent used equipment out there because some of it is better than some of the new equipment(try Audiogon among others and local shops). Also tube equipment allows you to modify the sound to your liking by tube rolling(changing the tubes)
I have done alot of listening and here is a list of preamps that will take you to where you want to go: The Jolida Envoy $800 used to $1100 new(tube) Jolida JD5t (tube) 349.00, Belles 28A (tube) $2000-used-$3100 new, Belles 21A $1200 to $2000(tube) now older product Belles 20A (tube) $800-$1000(older product)and Belles Solists 3 (solid state) older-$350-$600, Audio Research LS17(tube) $2895.00 to $4000, Rogue Audio Metis(tube) $1100,Rogue Audio 99(tube) $1500-$1200 and the Rogue Audio Perseus (tube) $1895.00 I also know some solid state preamps but do research and try to listen to these first. Also I was against tubes due to some maintenance issues that I thought where prevelant, but I was wrong. I will give you solid state suggestions as well.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on May 3, 2011 23:15:42 GMT -5
I heard an Audio Research LS 9 not too long ago, and it was very good. It's also well under $1,000 these days.
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Post by xyz1 on May 4, 2011 11:08:57 GMT -5
Do tube preamps get along with solid state amps? Or are there potential problems?
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Post by roadrunner on May 4, 2011 14:30:48 GMT -5
Do tube preamps get along with solid state amps? Or are there potential problems? Yes, combining tube preamps with solid state power amps can be problematic. You need to make sure there is no impedance mismatches and that the output voltage from the pre is sufficient to properly drive the power amp. Getting a good fit is often somewhat of a crap-shot.  |
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Post by xyz1 on May 4, 2011 14:45:52 GMT -5
Do tube preamps get along with solid state amps? Or are there potential problems? Yes, combining tube preamps with solid state power amps can be problematic. You need to make sure there is no impedance mismatches and that the output voltage from the pre is sufficient to properly drive the power amp. Getting a good fit is often somewhat of a crap-shot. Thank you roadrunner, that's what I heard, I just wanted it confirmed  Now I need to find a tube preamp seller who does 30 day money back deal, so I can try them out to see if they match my xpa-1's. I'm sure that will be a challenge. |
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myryse
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Post by myryse on May 4, 2011 21:21:22 GMT -5
Hey rclark,
sorry it took so lond to respond to your question, I have just been working like a dog and my girlfriend just moved in. So in regards to the XSP...I will probably try one out to A/B it against the W4S pre. I have been making a lot of changes to my system lately and I'm currently awaiting the arrival of the W4S DAC-1 and a Musical Fidelity M-1 DAC/V-link combo I just ordered so I can A/B them and decide on a better DAC. The XDA is great bang for the buck, but after A/Bing it against the Music Hall 25.3, I realized that I was missing a huge amount of what was possible through a better unit. I played around with the idea of buying a new transport and possibly getting into some tube gear, but have since decided to focus a bit more on my mac-mini front end. I got rid of the M2Tech hi-face and am replacing it with the prior mentioned gear. I have listened the Audio G-d stuff as well and the pre that you are talking about (c-39 mkIII) is extremely well built but sounded "thin", with a soundstage that seemed to float back and forth. Low end was not well defined and a bit "fuzzy". They are really nice looking and nicely priced but there are much better PREs for the money IMHO. I noticed that you, like myself, are into heavier music. I listen to a lot of old school punk, and everything in between and down to electronic. (no country and very little classical). If your listening preferences are on the harder side I have to say that you really need to check out the Music Hall 25.3. It's 600 bucks retail, uses the BB1796 DAC chip, and has a EH6922 tube on the output stage. Has selectable upsampling, True balanced outs and just sounds so smooth and detailed. The bass was so smooth,tight, deep and controlled, the mids were warm and detailed. and the highs were incredible. Soundstage was wide and much much deeper than the XDA. I hate to say it but it put the XDA in its place. NO JOKE. This is a great sounding piece for the price and is 1 of the three that I will be deciding between after the M-1 DAC & W4S arrive. The M-1 DAC runs 699.00 and the W4S runs 999.00. Now I'm just gonna throw this out there so you know, I had to buy the M-1 DAC and the W4S DAC-1 in advance, this means that I will be selling one or both of them within the next few weeks. So if you or anyone else for that matter is interested PM me and I will give you first stab at one of them if you wish. Unfortunately this is the only way to really be able to decide what's going to sound best in my system. Now about the W4S pre....I can tell you that it has changed everything for me, I have never heard a wider, deeper, more detailed soundstage that I am hearing now. Over the years I have owned some very nice set-ups that cost 2-3 times what I have spent on my existing rig, and they, from what I can remember, never excited me as much as I am today and that, I swear to you. The bass is so solid and well defined that I hardly use my subs. The mids and highs........Seriously.....I'm having a hard time realizing that I keep hearing so many new things in recordings that I never heard before without a bit of harshness or "ear bleeding" upper mids and highs. The attack of the drums and the decay of cymbals and strings is astounding! I get stuck to my chair for hours and hours!! Hands down, it is the best sounding pre I have owned...period. If you can muster up the cash I think it would be a great match with your class A amps, no question about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 21:23:50 GMT -5
I have a v link coming tomorrow. Got it cheap at Audio Advisor. It was a demo but they called me and said theyll give the discount on a new one since the demo was sold the day before. Can wait to hear 92 on the XDA-1  |
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Post by roadrunner on May 4, 2011 22:26:10 GMT -5
It is amazing the wide range of opinions different Lounge members have for specific DACs. I have not heard the Music Hall 25.3 but had heard some nice things about it. Shortly after the Emotiva XDA-1 shipped a couple of Lounge members compared it to their Music Hall 25.3 DAC and they reported that the XDA-1 smoked it with better imaging and sound-stage. Just able every point Myryse made in his above post was a complete reversal of what previous Lounge members reported. I guess it just goes to show that everyone has there unique feel for how something should sound. The posts about the Music Hall 25.3 couldn't have been more different. I guess I will have to do my own comparisons where the reviews have been polar opposites of each other. It's just like speakers -- one person loves brand A and the next person thinks it is the worst they ever heard. No accounting for taste... Oh well, so much for wanting to take a short cut and going by user reviews. I wonder if this is mainly a "tube" versus "solid state" sound preference coming forth during the reported sound quality. |
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Post by thomasd92 on May 5, 2011 6:08:50 GMT -5
I have a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE and had a conflict with the remote codes in it and my Audio Space cd player. I called Wyred 4 Sound and talked to EJ Sarmento and he told me to send in the cd remote and see what he could do. I sent the remote and he told me he could reflash my STP to clear up the conflict. He gave me his UPS number and I sent it collect and the next day he sent it back to me with the conflict cleared up.UPS is one day service in California .They fixed a problem on their dime for a problem that was not really their problem. There customer service is great as is Emotiva. So anyone thinking about buying any of their products their customer service will take care of you even when they do not have to.
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TJHUB
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Post by TJHUB on May 5, 2011 6:28:04 GMT -5
It is amazing the wide range of opinions different Lounge members have for specific DACs. I have not heard the Music Hall 25.3 but had heard some nice things about it. Shortly after the Emotiva XDA-1 shipped a couple of Lounge members compared it to their Music Hall 25.3 DAC and they reported that the XDA-1 smoked it with better imaging and sound-stage. Just able every point Myryse made in his above post was a complete reversal of what previous Lounge members reported. I guess it just goes to show that everyone has there unique feel for how something should sound. The posts about the Music Hall 25.3 couldn't have been more different. I guess I will have to do my own comparisons where the reviews have been polar opposites of each other. It's just like speakers -- one person loves brand A and the next person thinks it is the worst they ever heard. No accounting for taste... Oh well, so much for wanting to take a short cut and going by user reviews. I wonder if this is mainly a "tube" versus "solid state" sound preference coming forth during the reported sound quality. It amazes me as well how differently people seem to listen or hear. However, a certain component can sound VERY different when played through different gear, speakers, and even room. It's more about the synergy of the entire system than anything else. I run a Music Hall 25.2 which is basically the same as the 25.3. While it is a decent DAC, there are points that myryse made that I wouldn't agree with, and some I would. My 25.2 has been modified (by me) with a few upgrades, but the single greatest upgrade that takes the DAC to a whole new level is swapping out the stock opamps with Burson's. The transformation is amazing and it will live up to everything myryse said about the 25.3 and more. I haven't heard an XDA-1 yet, but I hope to one day. But you are right, you need to listen for yourself, and hopefully with your gear in your room. |
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Post by hobbs on May 5, 2011 11:44:22 GMT -5
If you are using XDA-1 or the DAC in the source (Oppo BD for e.g.,) then the preamp is working like a source selector with volume control. If on the other hand, you want to use the DAC in the preamp, than it may be worth investing in one. I myself use powered speakers (which has a volume control), so I can just buy a Audio Source Selector if I wish to use more than a couple of audio sources (there are some source selectors with volume control) . My turntable is connected to a dedicated/standalone phone preamp which in turn is connected to the powered speakers.
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myryse
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Post by myryse on May 6, 2011 2:23:13 GMT -5
I really appreciate everyone objective opinions on this topic and am now realizing that I am at fault for not being more clear about my own findings. I am comparing the XDA and Music Hall pieces. In my system with the B&Ws, XPA-2s, W4S, and OPPO bdp-95 running coax to DAC then balanced to pre and single ended to amps (being that the XPAs are not differential), the Music Hall was was everything I said it was...to me...in this set-up. That's not to say that it is the "best" it is obviously not.
Roadrunner, I do believe that the tube section played a very important part in the end result. Alot of my source material is of the "heavier" kind and then I will jump into a large amount of "electronic" based stuff. So with this in mind, I like a "smoother" sound to help with taming the, sometimes overbearing, mid range that is characteristic of the genres of music I like. When it came down to comparing the two pieces of gear, the MH 25.3, IMO, smoked the XDA in my set-up. I am not, nor would I ever say that the XDA is junk, because it is far from that!! For the money I believe that there is nothing better out there. I am just trying to step it up a notch and the 25.3 does so, for me, but at twice the price. I feel the XDA lacks in the lower end of the spectrum. The Music Hall was much better in that area but was in no way the best I have heard. IMHO the XDA had a shallower sound stage but was just as wide as the MH. The highs were similar, but decay was better with the MH, as the XDA seemed a bit more compressed and instrument placement was not as defined as with the MH.
Quick shout to kraemerkid...congrats on the V-link! I am very excited about trying it out as well, and it looks like you will be getting yours before me, (my stuff is on order and won't be here til' the beginning of next week) so let me know what you think if you get a chance.
Back @ roadrunner, I have read good and bad things about the MH 25.3 as well as so many pieces of gear. I now have learned to try and listen for myself, in my own system, with my own choice of source material whenever possible. To me this is the only realistic way to find what it is you are looking for. I know this isn't always a realistic option for everyone (as it is not always for me either). This is why I post my OPINIONS on this forum in hopes of helping or getting help from people that may be in similar situations-in the form of suggestions. I have "bought blindly"(without hearing a piece of gear) too many times based on reviews or salesperson "hype" and regretted it many of those times. As I have said many times, and very much believe, we all hear differently, some of us are more sensitive to certain frequencies than others and have different preferences when it comes down to how we like our music to sound. I believe that there is no such thing as perfect as it is all just a matter of personal taste. I am only trying to share what I have experienced and make a conscious effort to keep speculation to a minimum. I love the fact that there are so many variables in this industry. It really keeps things interesting.
One last thing I would like to mention is that I have not gone through a ton of DACs in my life and am in no way an expert on the topic. These are just my findings thus far with the set up I have and really do appreciate the input from all of you.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 2:56:23 GMT -5
myryse, Thanks for the shout out ;D The V Link showed up Thursday morning. I work 3rd shift and get off around 6:30am. It was hard to sleep when i got home, since i was to excited to hook it up and take a listen. Opening box and first impressions: I was surprised they put it in a plastic clam shell but i guess that saves on packaging. At first i thought it was the wrong piece of gear  Picking it up, it seems way to light for what it is. So i got a digital coaxial cable and unplugged my USB from the XDA-1. Changed it so the USB goes to the V Link then coax to the XDA-1. Configuration: I use Pure Music with Itunes and so far i like it a lot. I had to go into MIDI settings on my Macbook Pro to select the V Link as the output device. Then in Pure Music i did the same thing but PM requires you to restart the application. No biggie Also i want to add i have it up for "maximum fidelity" and to up sample any track that is not 92khz. Listening: First off i want to say the blue power light on the V Link looks awesome in the dark. Perfectly matches the rest of my gear. There is a LED for "lock" but sadly it is yellow. Who thinks of these kinds of things lol ;D So the first track i listened to was "Tom Sawyer" by Rush. It's native resolution is 92khz/24 bit. So i thought it would be a great first track. I turned it up to 30 on my Parasound (medium volume) and was shocked at the difference in sound quality. At that moment i didn't know if it was good or bad, just shocked. The sound was so clear cut and transparent. Nothing was in the way. Instruments were set up right in front of me, with pin point accuracy. I wanted to make sure i was hearing 92 so i unplugged the USB on the V Link and plugged it into the XDA-1. It was like night and day. My Macbook will not send out 92 to the XDA-1 but will with V Link Going straight the XDA-1 results in a cloudy sound stage and just doesn't have that crystal clear sound that the V Link gave me. I was thinking and actually looking at getting a different DAC but now with the XDA-1/V Link combo i am happy It makes the XDA-1 sound completley different. Maybe it's just me or i am crazy but the sound changed a lot and in a good way. Highly recommended |
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myryse
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Post by myryse on May 6, 2011 14:15:03 GMT -5
Right on kraemerkid. Now that's what I'm talkin about, 96 kHz is a huge jump up in resolution and it shows! Thanks for the great review and congrats!
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Post by egosbar on May 6, 2011 19:38:56 GMT -5
I wish emo would huury up and get the XSP to us. It just seems so far away!! when is the xsp coming and will the usp be much cheaper then |
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wc
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Post by wc on May 6, 2011 20:41:33 GMT -5
I wish emo would huury up and get the XSP to us. It just seems so far away!! when is the xsp coming and will the usp be much cheaper then Latest word was late summer, but it has missed deadlines before.  I doubt the USP price will change any other than they may put it on sale for $50 off. |
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myryse
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Post by myryse on May 8, 2011 0:15:14 GMT -5
Has anyone else here had a chance to A/B the XDA against other DACs? If so I would really like to hear about there experiences.
Thanks!
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Post by hokienation on May 9, 2011 7:25:00 GMT -5
Myryse, interesting results with your w4s pre. I have the w4s mono blocks and have thought about getting the matching pre. Currently, I run my dac straight into my amps and always thought adding a pre could only hurt the sq.
Anyone know how a pre improves the sound of a dac?
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Now I need to find a tube preamp seller who does 30 day money back deal, so I can try them out to see if they match my xpa-1's. I'm sure that will be a challenge.
Picking it up, it seems way to light for what it is. So i got a digital coaxial cable and unplugged my USB from the XDA-1. Changed it so the USB goes to the V Link then coax to the XDA-1. 
