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Post by ovenboi on Jun 29, 2011 13:11:50 GMT -5
Hi Everyone,
My first post here. I am upgrading to a pair of B&W 802 diamonds if all goes well
Including the matching Htm2 center.
I need advice on what amp combination would be best. I was looking at the XPA-5
and considered bi amping the front channels and driving the center on it own.
Does anyone have these speaker paired with any Emotiva setup?
Other suggestions I had was Parasound Halo A51 or ATI 300 X7
But I must say that everything I read sofar regarding Emotiva has been superb and that is without mentioning the price.
Any suggestions and advice would be highly appreciated.
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,952
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Post by hemster on Jun 29, 2011 13:29:06 GMT -5
Hi ovenboi, Welcome to the forum!
The B&W 802 Diamonds are gorgeous and I wish I could listen to them! I owned the Nautilus and loved those.
The XPA-5 will not leave you wanting in any way. It'll drive the 90db sensitivity diamonds effortlessly. I hope others who actually have the diamonds pipe in.
Good luck with your quest and keep us posted.
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 29, 2011 14:23:42 GMT -5
Don't waste amp channels bi-amping. Get an XPA-2 and a UPA-1 or 3 x UPA-1s. What will you be using for your surrounds?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 14:30:09 GMT -5
Don't waste amp channels bi-amping. Get an XPA-2 and a UPA-1 or 3 x UPA-1s. What will you be using for your surrounds? I agree 100%. You could also save a bit and get a xpa-3 for the L/C/R. |
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Post by ovenboi on Jun 29, 2011 16:22:35 GMT -5
Don't waste amp channels bi-amping. Get an XPA-2 and a UPA-1 or 3 x UPA-1s. What will you be using for your surrounds? I agree 100%. You could also save a bit and get a xpa-3 for the L/C/R. The reason I wanted to do the bi amping was to give more power to the FL and FR speakers. The B&W 802di are apparently very power hungry. The speakers at the back are standard b&w in ceiling mounts that would be fine with 100W per speaker. I have a current amp to drive them. Won't the UPA-1 be under powering the speakers? Would there be such a big difference running 1 x XPA-5 (bi-amped) vs XPA-1 x2 (Mains) and UPA-1 (Center) Do the amps sound the same from XPA to UPA to use them in the same system? Do the Emotiva power amps have a current amperage rating? Thanks for the advice |
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 29, 2011 16:42:12 GMT -5
Amps don't provide power, rather the speaker draws power. Passive bi-amping will do nothing for your SQ. If you're worried about having adequate power I would suggest that you consider 3 x XPA-1s. Are you going to be playing your speakers at reference levels? How big is the room in which they will be kept?
Some people hear a difference between the XPA and the UPA amps although I hear that the XPA-2 is very closely matched to the UPA-1. I've never made this comparison so I have no input in this matter.
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Post by ovenboi on Jun 29, 2011 16:52:32 GMT -5
Amps don't provide power, rather the speaker draws power. Passive bi-amping will do nothing for your SQ. If you're worried about having adequate power I would suggest that you consider 3 x XPA-1s. Are you going to be playing your speakers at reference levels? How big is the room in which they will be kept? The room is 4.2m x 6m so not the biggest. I won't be playing ridiculous levels but Power would be required for certain movie scenes etc.. Or so I think. Are you asking this because if I'm not going full level I can get away with lower levels of power? The other thing is that the speakers use the diamond tweeters that can be bright with the incorrect amplification. Are These amps warm sounding ? |
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 29, 2011 17:06:37 GMT -5
I believe that the XPA-2, UPA-1 combo will be more than adequate. Having said that, and particularly since you're located in South Africa, I would suggest that you purchase the XPA-1s. That way you are sure that you will have enough headroom available for when you might need it. You're not left wondering whether you made the right decision or not. Also, I presume that money is not too much of a factor given the cost of the speakers.
Those diamond tweeters are smooth. I don't think you will have an issue with any of the Emo amps. If the treble sounds harsh I would look at my DAC, sources and the program material rather than the amps as culprits.
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Post by ovenboi on Jun 29, 2011 17:25:32 GMT -5
I believe that the XPA-2, UPA-1 combo will be more than adequate. Having said that, and particularly since you're located in South Africa, I would suggest that you purchase the XPA-1s. That way you are sure that you will have enough headroom available for when you might need it. You're not left wondering whether you made the right decision or not. Also, I presume that money is not too much of a factor given the cost of the speakers. Those diamond tweeters are smooth. I don't think you will have an issue with any of the Emo amps. If the treble sounds harsh I would look at my DAC, sources and the program material rather than the amps as culprits. Thanks for the reply. You have Hit the nail in the coffin. The same reason I'm getting the 802's and not the 803's for instance is because I have always loved the look of them and would never worry have buyers remorse  I'm just afraid of purchasing the XPA1's and then they don't sound right. One thing I see on the EMO amps I the damping factor is only 200. Is this important ? Compared to other high end equipment that has over a 1000? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 17:48:02 GMT -5
These amps are neutral sounding. If the tweeters are harsh then that is what they will be.
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 29, 2011 18:02:19 GMT -5
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Post by roadrunner on Jun 29, 2011 18:46:47 GMT -5
The XPA-1 amps would be an excellent choice for the B&W Diamonds, no matter the room size, but to be perfectly honest with you, you won't need all that power for a room the size you mentioned. The UPA-1 or any of the XPA Series amps have more than enough power, considering your speakers.
Watts SPL
1 91 dB
2 94 dB
4 97 dB
8 100 dB
16 103 dB
32 106 dB
64 109 dB
128 112 dB
256 115 dB
512 118 dB
Basically, for every three dB increase in sound it requires double the power (watts) from your amplifier. Most amplifiers are driven to their rated output between 1.0 and 1.5 volts RMS. Hopefully this will help you. You also need to consider the size, shape and construction materials of your listening room. If you have a huge room with open connections to adjacent room and have high ceilings the power requirements go up -- not to mention how far your seated position is from your speakers.
According to OSHA, the exposure time limits are:
Exposure Time SPL Level
8 Hours 90 dB SPL
6 Hours 92 dB SPL
4 Hours 95 dB SPL
3 Hours 97 dB SPL
2 Hours 100 dB SPL
1.5 Hours 102 dB SPL
1 Hours 105 dB SPL
.5 Hours 110 dB SPL
<.25 Hours 115 dB SPL
As you can see from these tables, a mere 64 watts will drive your speakers to output a SPL of 109 dB, which will cause permanent damage to your hearing in about 30 minutes of listening.
The XPA-1 is Emotiva's flagship amp and is the only dual differential, fully balanced amp in Emotiva's product line. There are advantageous to owning this amp, far beyond its power output; and, with your speakers you won't need but a small percentage of its power output. If your pre-amp or HT processor are dual differential designs you may want to purchase the XPA-1 to ensure you continue to provide a fully balanced circuitry.
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Post by djoel on Jun 29, 2011 19:12:47 GMT -5
I would definitely do as the other members have posted, I own 802N and they sounded their best with a pair of XPA-1.
Good Luck, and Congratulations on your sweet speakers.
Dan
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Post by BillBauman on Jun 29, 2011 21:11:39 GMT -5
Amps don't provide power, rather the speaker draws power. Passive bi-amping will do nothing for your SQ. While I normally tend to overlook semantics, this statement is just incorrect. Amplifiers draw power from electrical that is then used to amplify a low-level audio signal that is pushed TO a speaker. It is not the other way around. If you connect 1 100 Watt amplifier to a speaker and run it to it maximum rated output, the speaker will receive 100 Watts of power. If you connect 2 independent 100 Watt power amplifiers to a speaker and increase the gain on both to their maximum rated output, the speaker will receive 200 Watts of power. Whether or not this affects the audible performance of the speaker is up to the individual listening. |
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 29, 2011 22:12:11 GMT -5
I'm admittedly not knowledgeable in electronics. My understanding is that the load determines the wattage that the amp will deliver. If you have an 8 ohm speaker connected to an amp and it "draws" 100 watts, a 4 ohm load connected to the same amp may "draw" 200 watts. So the speaker (or load) determines the power drawn. This is what I meant.
I maintain that passive bi-amping does nothing and it is a waste of amp channels. You may feed additional watts into a speaker, whether using a single amp or multiple amps, but that won't change the SQ in a passive multi-amping situation.
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Post by BillBauman on Jun 29, 2011 22:34:56 GMT -5
I'm admittedly not knowledgeable in electronics. My understanding is that the load determines the wattage that the amp will deliver. If you have an 8 ohm speaker connected to an amp and it "draws" 100 watts, a 4 ohm load connected to the same amp may "draw" 200 watts. So the speaker (or load) determines the power drawn. This is what I meant. Fair enough and close enough. Ohms are the impedance, in general, the difficulty to drive the speaker (assuming all cables are up to par, etc.). As a speaker may play passages easily or dip lower during playback the impedance will change dynamically. Some amplifiers will do as you described, and simply double down the power delivered. Some will not be able to overcome the lower impedance and simply shut down. Others may deliver 200 Watts into 8 Ohms, and into 4 Ohms only deliver 350 Watts. So, yes, the impedance will determine, to a certain extent, the amount of power the amplifier delivers, but that is a function of the level to which the amplifier is driving the speaker (based on the speaker's overall design). I see what you meant, though, no worries. I maintain that passive bi-amping does nothing and it is a waste of amp channels. You may feed additional watts into a speaker, whether using a single amp or multiple amps, but that won't change the SQ in a passive multi-amping situation. In the event that one has a hard to drive speaker or is driving it to difficult loads, and one does not have a powerful enough amplifier, bi-amping the speaker may indeed provide a sonic increase in sound quality. The likelihood of reaching this point and not just having a better, single amplifier, is not very likely, though. |
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Post by bitsandbytes on Jun 30, 2011 5:32:37 GMT -5
The reason to purchase excellent amplifiers is not for the volume but for the increase in sound quality. The XPA-1's deliver. They far outshine the XPA-5's (depending on the speakers, eg, not as nearly dramatic and probably not worth it driving my Paradigm Studio 20's, but a night and day difference with the B&W 804s's). The B&W 804s owner's manual recommends an excellent current carrying capacity. They define this as outputing twice the watts per channel at 4 ohms as at 8 ohms. The XPA-1's are the only Emotiva amps which do this. My room size is similar to yours. Judging from my light display, I never approach half their average power output. I personally like them better than even more expensive amps from other manufacturers. If price is not an object, listen to the Classe monoblocks. They smoke the XPA-1'a on my 804s's, but at over five times the price, they should!  The only peculiarity of the XPA-1 is its binding posts are 13" apart. This is not reason to write them off though IMO. I would recommend getting three XPA'1 for your system. My HTM3S is driven currently by an XPA-5 channel. It sounds thinner in relation to my 804s's. Something I will rectify ASAP while this sale is going on. Hope my 2 cents worth is helpful. Best of luck. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 6:29:21 GMT -5
If "biamping" for additional power alone, I believe one would be better off with just a single, more powerful, amp. As you probably read, I do "tri-amp" with miniDSPs as crossovers. I think there is some benefit to having the amplifiers "band limited." Have there been any listening tests (preferably double blind) comparing bi-amping to not?
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Post by Wideawake on Jun 30, 2011 7:56:43 GMT -5
If price is not an object, listen to the Classe monoblocks. They smoke the XPA-1'a on my 804s's, but at over five times the price, they should! If you can hear the difference between the XPA-1 and the Classe mono blocks, you have a good chance of winning the $10K Amplifier Challenge by Richard Clark. Nobody has collected the 10K during the years since this challenge has been running. www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/ |
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Post by BillBauman on Jun 30, 2011 8:21:32 GMT -5
If price is not an object, listen to the Classe monoblocks. They smoke the XPA-1'a on my 804s's, but at over five times the price, they should! If you can hear the difference between the XPA-1 and the Classe mono blocks, you have a good chance of winning the $10K Amplifier Challenge by Richard Clark. Nobody has collected the 10K during the years since this challenge has been running. www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/I don't really care about Mr. Clark's ridiculous challenge, nor do I consider it valid. However, if you can sit in a room with any decent speakers/source and consistently identify which amp is blindly chosen in a randomized swap test between the Classe and the XPA-1's, do whatever you want with the volume, then I'll offer up my own cash reward. |
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