XPA-2+UMC-1 VS Classe CAM-200+SSP-65

[paintedklown]

Great review so far.

I am glad too see you are giving your Emo gear a fair evaluation.

One thing I would like to request is that (if possible) you use the same pre-amp when comparing amplifiers.

I think that dedicated analog pre-amps have the advantage when it comes to 2 ch. music listening. Even Emotiva's own USP-1 will best the UMC-1 in 2 ch. analog listening.

Please keep your thoughts coming. I always enjoy reading the opinions of experienced listeners.

[shayned]

Hey paintedklown:

Yes, I am keeping them the same. The Classe SSP I'm using is a full balanced 7.1 home theater processor. I'll only mix up units to troubleshoot. I will say, all the hype about the value of the Emotiva gear is well deserved; the UMC-1 can't really be touched for value at all,
even on the used marked when you consider build quality and features together. I also did give Emo-Q a shot, but couldn't pass the quiet test... the kitchen fridge 50 feet away cycling through was enough to cancel it! Very sensitive, but I'll get it eventually. I also have access to a 1/3 octave RTA, and I did use a laser to level and align my speakers, so Emo-Q isn't much of a concern to me right now, but I'd like to see how it works.

At work now, gotta go!

[Porscheguy]

Great stuff shayned. I would comment that the XPA-2 will benefit from 40-60 hours of burn in as was my experience. Same for the XPA-1's. I hope you hear those some day as they are at another level IMHO.

[Legis]

I concur, I woulkd also like to see a comparison between the amps, using Classe prepro, and would suggest at least 50 huors of burn in.

Also the equipment should be pre-warmed for an hour before listening, by playing some music at low volume. The amp comparison should also be done by just changing the cables without shutting anything off in between. The greater the heatsinks the longer it takes for the amp to reach the normal operating temp. Output stage's/power transistor's temperature affects the amount of bias current.

Regards,

Legis

[shayned]

Hey people:

Yes, I always try to let things warm up when needed, and am doing so with the Emo stuff, but it's still a little early to form final opinions, I agree. Porscheguy, I contemplated the XPA-1, but would have trouble plugging them in; I only have a pair of outlets to run off of, and that damn TV spikes up to 8amps on a full-bright scene. It only averages 3-5amps, but still, the number of plugs is limited here already. On the bright side, I do average a constant 120-125 volts on all lines(I'm in the country). I did briefly try the Classe with the XPA-2, and found it.... mostly the same. The XPA seemed to ever so slightly push the image a bit forward, which isn't bad, just a slight soundstage difference. Both the monos and the emo seemed quite powerful(those monos are 200watts each, doubling down all the way to 2ohms and weigh 50lbs each). The Classe amps never even got warm unless I pushed the crap out of them. The XPA got really warm about the first hour or two it was on, but only seems to get warm now....?break in period? I have the metering turned on, but haven't gotten past one blue light yet. Maybe I'll crank it with some KODO drummer CDs this weekend and see what I can kill....

[shayned]

I'll have another update soon; just trying to get some more pics into Photobucket... slow for me right now.
More info on how things are later tonight or tomorrow morning...

[shayned]

Alrighty, I'll post some pics and update what I've been doing. I'll try to keep it short, as I tend to ramble. Anyways, the old Arcam transport I was using just wasn't cutting it, so I broke out my old TEAC VRDS-10SE transport. This improved things right away, showing that this processor benefits from a better source. I also EmoQ'd the setup; here's the end result:

Most of the aggravating highs that were bothering me so much are gone. I noticed that EMOQ dropped the 9kHz band about 5dB, so this could account for that, for sure... my Classe also had a mic setup, but I had forgotten about it until recently. Setup is on a much more even playing field now. Threw in a pair of Chang speaker cables after trying to cut my thumb off terminating another pair, single-wire, and made my own jumpers. End result is, it's much more pleasing now to listen too, but still not on the level of the Classe equipment. Now that everything is dialed in, there is an overall loss of detail, slight, but evident. Depth also has decreased somewhat, but all that bass detail I talked about is still there, and area where it simply defeats the Classe stuff. There is still a tendency to get somewhat congested on complex works(like Live's Ghost), same as before. Bottom line:

UMC-1: A superb piece for the price. Highs are a bit grainy, bass detail is excellent, but imaging and detail somewhat vague, at least compared to my Classe stuff. Dynamics also somewhat hindered, but I'd say it's about 70% of the way there for about 90% less money-making it a phenomenal deal. My unit is also slow to lock onto HDMI, and I can't get any sound with the higher resolution formats(DTS-HD, DOLBY True HD) on my 2.1 system. Anyone know why? I have to send out PCM to hear a movie. Build quality is beyond what should be expected, and the unit looks much better in person than even the pics indicate. This unit performs so well in it's price range, I'm really excited for the XMC-1 and especially the XSP when they come out. Well done emo!

XPA-2: What can I say, after a rough start, all is great with this amp. Because of my using it mostly solo with the UMC-1, I reserve final thoughts for when I get it going with the XSP. Mine also runs quite warm/hot, which surprises me since everyone seems to talk about how cool they run. My speakers are probably the culprit, dropping to 3.2 ohms in the midbass with a high phase angle(wimpy amps need not apply), so I'll leave it at that for now.

Pics:

Too many wires! This is half my supply, totally dumb:



Excuse the mess. I have a new TV stand coming, but won't be here until the
end of November:

[shayned]

Now that they've had some good run-in time, I'm going to give them another go this weekend. Where's that damn XSP? lol...

[sharkman]

That's what I was asking November 2010! For 2 channel now I just have an Oppo 95 running an Emo amp. I don't even want an XSP now...

[shayned]

I just got wind of the new firmware coming soon... should I wait for that?

[Legis]

Comment the UMC as you wish, but if you still have those Classe's amps, it would be sweet if you had compared them with XPA-2, with the same pre amp. Just the amps, preferably with very high quality pre.

[shayned]

Hey Legis, already did that... with the Classe SSP. I might borrow a Spectral or Chord pre next time I'm out... not sure it matters as the XPA-2 sounded about the same, main difference is it runs MUCH hotter than the Classe Monos. The XPA-2 seems just a bit more forward than the Classe, like the soundstage is moved up a bit. I noted a lack of depth, but that was mostly with the UMC-1 in the chain. Dynamics are a bit trickier to pin down... one minute I think the Classe is better, the next the Emo, which tells me they're about the same probably. The gain structure is obviously different, and both will play far louder than I can tolerate, and do so cleanly. I do level match with my SPL when I test.... overall, pretty even match I'd say. I'd love to try the monos from EMO, but I want to expand to surround some time in the next bit, and I've only got two outlets to run everything...
I'll post more after the UMC update is out.

[House]

Great so far....excellent choice on the sub i might add ;-) Thing is amazing for the money!

From the sounds of it your experiencing alot of the same reaction that many have commented about with the highs and the lows of the amps sound.

[clarkevader]

Ok so do you have an update on this experiment? I was looking at building a new system and I'm looking at both Emo and Classe 250 for power, Obbo for source... Not sure about the speakers. I have to consider what's available locally because of shipping.