stiehl11
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Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 27, 2011 11:55:08 GMT -5
The ERC-2 should be compared to other products of the same price. It is a myth to think that they have uncovered some kind of magic that permits them to build a $1000 product and sell it for $449. The math is simple; they have a few comparative advantages, foreign labor costs, no middle men, limited advertizing expenses, these are more than offset by their build in disadvantages, no economies of scale in purchasing components, no proprietary technology, and faulty inventory controls (for example it is the best selling period of the year and you can't get an ERC-2 until Feb). First year business school analysis tells you that their $450 is what it appears to be, a $450 cd player, no more no less. Man, what business school did you go to? Because I want to make sure my daughter doesn't apply there in a few years.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2011 12:57:18 GMT -5
Apparently 8 years of college doesn't include any English writing courses. Ephling, if you want folks to take you seriously, or even to *read* your posts, you must include some paragraph breaks. Faiure to do so will cause them to simply not read your post(s).
You do make some valid points - yes, I slogged thru it despite the lack of paragraph breaks - and Emo should address your concerns. Good luck with that...
-RW-
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Post by ephling on Dec 27, 2011 17:53:35 GMT -5
par•a•graph (pr-grf)
n.
1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.
It was only one thought regarding one topic, therefore one paragraph. Harvard Business School and I am sure we will be heartbroken if you daughter does not attend. Do you honestly think that companies like Marantz who have proprietary technology and economies of scale would intentionally produce a product like the CD6004 to be inferior to the ERC-2? If so, why would they do so?
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kse
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Hello me, meet the real me.
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Post by kse on Dec 27, 2011 18:46:15 GMT -5
Dude, we get it, Emotiva pissed you off. Your disappointment is legitimate, no argument there. You have made your point. I'm sorry you didn't get your ERC-2, it really is a fine player.
Let it go....
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 27, 2011 22:14:44 GMT -5
Lets make sure we are keeping this thread on track. Lots of tangents and I see it possibly getting too far off the beaten path.
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 27, 2011 23:23:44 GMT -5
Hey ephling, I think that if Harvard Business School doesn't understand the Manufacturing / Distribution chain and how one company could be selling a product for $450 while another could be selling a similar quality product for $1,000 then it probably isn't worth attending. Lets take Rega ( A company I love). They design and build their own product in England. They have a distributor in the US. That distributor sells to AV Dealers, who sell to us. So you have Cost to Manufacture, a markup to the the distributor, a markup to the dealer, then a markup to us. Emotiva, Design In house. Cost to Manufacture. They sell direct to us. So you have cost to Manufacture and one markup to us. So you think that Emotiva $450 could be similar or equivalent to Rega $1000? Often the decision on what to price a product has no bearing on its cost to manufacture. Or, some companies have much higher overhead than others, so while the product itself may not cost much, the resale price reflects the other costs that exist. For example, do you really think Monster or Bose product pricing is that proportional to the cost of the actual hardware that you are buying? You are paying for the huge advertising budgets that they have; the price you pay bears no relation to the quality of the products. And an example I love to point out is the Oppo in a box sold by another company (I always forget their name). The exact same item except placed inside of another case, sells for 7x the cost of the Oppo. So in this case, the one that costs 7x more is a lot better than the Oppo? It's all about product placement and perception. Sure, no one willingly sells their stuff at a loss but in terms of the proportion of quality and manufacturing costs to the retail price, that can vary widely. So as to keep this thread on track, using the ERC-2 as a particular example: Emo's decision with this, as well as all their other products, is to offer good value for the money. They use an internet direct model and you do not pay for a lot of overhead, nor do you pay for a lot of fluff inserted by a marketing department. When professional reviewers write about Emo items (or other items that are not premium priced), they have to be careful with the superlatives when comparing to the premium items because many of the companies who make those premium items also pay premium advertising dollars. |
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 27, 2011 23:42:47 GMT -5
And an example I love to point out is the Oppo in a box sold by another company (I always forget their name). The exact same item except placed inside of another case, sells for 7x the cost of the Oppo. So in this case, the one that costs 7x more is a lot better than the Oppo. That particular company was Lexicon.....  |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 27, 2011 23:54:55 GMT -5
And an example I love to point out is the Oppo in a box sold by another company (I always forget their name). The exact same item except placed inside of another case, sells for 7x the cost of the Oppo. So in this case, the one that costs 7x more is a lot better than the Oppo. That particular company was Lexicon..... Ah yes... I knew it started with an "L." Thanks!  |
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myryse
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Post by myryse on Jan 9, 2012 22:28:03 GMT -5
I got the January issue yesterday and just looked at it today. Page 49 has a followup article on the ERC-2, (1) comparing the sound quality to the Sony Playstation 1, and (2) switching out the power cord. My two cents - this article is ridiculous. Comparing the ERC-2 with the PS1, reviewer Stephen Mejias states that the Emo had the better low end, as well as cleaner, more extended highs but the Sony's midrange sounded better; the PS1 also had an overall smoothness and ease to its sound that the ERC-2 couldn't offer. Okay, fine - that's his opinion and I respect that (he was very positive about the ERC-2). What I thought was silly was this description he used: " ...[the recordings] felt looser and more diffuse through the Sony, but, surprisingly, was no less rhythmically assured." Now what the heck does "rhythmically assured" mean??? That somehow the PS1 runs at a different speed than the ERC-2? This reviewer is by no means the only one that uses nonsensical phrases to describe what he is hearing, and Stereophile certainly has its share of such things among its reviews (though it is prevalent in the audio review industry). I just thought that was one silly phrase to use. Next, he swapped out the stock power cord for an Audio Quest NRG-X3. He reported that the AQ cable uses "strands of long-grain copper." And that AQ's Shane Buettner explained, "With typical bundled conductors, distortion is caused when the signal jumps from strand to strand as the strands weave in and out of position down the length of the cable. Our long-grain copper's greater purity and smoother grain structure, compared with conventional copper conductors, further reduce distortion." What a load of you know what!!!!!!  Oh, so this 6 feet of cord somehow compensates for the miles of other electrical cable from the power station to your house, and also the tainted, dirty, unpure wiring that Emo uses inside of its equipment? Power is power. Unless you are using a defective cord or one that is too thin to handle the current running through it (highly unlikely for something like an ERC-2), a cord is a cord is a cord. Yes, I know there will be those who lambast me and say don't knock it if I haven't tried it. True, I have never heard any difference between cords but then I've never had a truly expensive cord in my house. The most expensive one is the X-Series I bought from Emo but it sounds no different from any other cord. I don't need to try these cords, there is no basis whatsoever for one competently made power cord to sound different from another. Especially when explained by the hooey that this AQ guy tried to foist off with a straight face. BUT... as you might expect, the reviewer was impressed by the improvement in sound made by the AQ cord versus the Emo stock cord. I am not quoting his flowery quackery descriptions because it is too much to type and I've typed enough already. Get the January issue and see for yourself. All I have to say is, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Folks who regularly visit the lounge know I am not one to normally go postal, but this just got me going... I think that's the last straw. How much of this idiotic stuff can I read before going berserk? I guess I found the limit. HAHA...I couldn't agree more, I've never bought into that crap, it's bad enough I have spent too much money in the past on ICs. Granted, a well put together IC that doesn't cost an arm and a leg is something I believe in I also know that I can't hear paint dry or ants fart, so the power cord thing is just plain stupid in my eyes. |
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myryse
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AUDIO JUNKIE
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Post by myryse on Jan 9, 2012 22:40:37 GMT -5
And yes I do own a pair of expensive AQ speaker wires and no, they don't "sound" any "airier","fuller" or "better" in any way than the Emo speaker wires I am using as well. IMO
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Post by rjscheuer on Apr 5, 2012 16:51:30 GMT -5
Sony's Playstation might have a decent mid-range (stranger things have happened), but I for one can testify that their budget Blu-Ray (mine's an N460 from 2010) is no player of CDs, redbook or otherwise. When my Cambridge Audio Azur 640c (a giant killer from 2004) finally crapped out and I tried putting the blu-ray in my stereo rig, it was no-go after 15 seconds. Lifeless. Totally dead. Zero soundstage. That's what brought me to Emotiva, the ERC-2 (which I'm burning in these next few weeks) - and to this site.
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Post by roadster on Apr 9, 2012 15:10:38 GMT -5
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Post by brubacca on Apr 9, 2012 16:29:40 GMT -5
I really lose all respect for the reviewer who raves about the original playstation 1. It has a good midrange, but you give up the highs and lows. Hello isn't that what we say about Bose? I get it, the original PS1 was a great machine and played CDS exceptionally well. Hello it is 2012... Not only has the playstation 2 and 3 been released they are well on their way to Playstation 4 or whatever it will be called. Drop the whole Playstation stuff. I am darn sick and tired of stereophile reviewers talking about PS1.
OK rant over.
Thank you for listening.
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Post by creimes on Jul 16, 2012 23:22:11 GMT -5
While you guys are arguing I'm gonna pull out my old PS1 from it's cob webbed grave cardboard box and be taken back to Digital Heaven..aka rhythmically assuredness....lololol...I'll post my review when complete, might be a few months as I have to find this box first
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Post by rclark on Jul 17, 2012 0:05:34 GMT -5
ERC-2, FANTASTIC player, a modern classic. LOOVE mine, absolutely adore it.
Truly a reference level player.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 17, 2012 11:19:08 GMT -5
Glad stereophile liked it. I wish they gave it more competition than a PS1, no matter how good it's supposed to be. That's a bit of an insult.
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Post by briank on Jul 17, 2012 21:23:13 GMT -5
I got the January issue yesterday and just looked at it today. Page 49 has a followup article on the ERC-2, (1) comparing the sound quality to the Sony Playstation 1, and (2) switching out the power cord. My two cents - this article is ridiculous. Comparing the ERC-2 with the PS1, reviewer Stephen Mejias states that the Emo had the better low end, as well as cleaner, more extended highs but the Sony's midrange sounded better; the PS1 also had an overall smoothness and ease to its sound that the ERC-2 couldn't offer. Okay, fine - that's his opinion and I respect that (he was very positive about the ERC-2). What I thought was silly was this description he used: " ...[the recordings] felt looser and more diffuse through the Sony, but, surprisingly, was no less rhythmically assured." Now what the heck does "rhythmically assured" mean??? That somehow the PS1 runs at a different speed than the ERC-2? This reviewer is by no means the only one that uses nonsensical phrases to describe what he is hearing, and Stereophile certainly has its share of such things among its reviews (though it is prevalent in the audio review industry). I just thought that was one silly phrase to use. Next, he swapped out the stock power cord for an Audio Quest NRG-X3. He reported that the AQ cable uses "strands of long-grain copper." And that AQ's Shane Buettner explained, "With typical bundled conductors, distortion is caused when the signal jumps from strand to strand as the strands weave in and out of position down the length of the cable. Our long-grain copper's greater purity and smoother grain structure, compared with conventional copper conductors, further reduce distortion." What a load of you know what!!!!!! Oh, so this 6 feet of cord somehow compensates for the miles of other electrical cable from the power station to your house, and also the tainted, dirty, unpure wiring that Emo uses inside of its equipment? Power is power. Unless you are using a defective cord or one that is too thin to handle the current running through it (highly unlikely for something like an ERC-2), a cord is a cord is a cord. Yes, I know there will be those who lambast me and say don't knock it if I haven't tried it. True, I have never heard any difference between cords but then I've never had a truly expensive cord in my house. The most expensive one is the X-Series I bought from Emo but it sounds no different from any other cord. I don't need to try these cords, there is no basis whatsoever for one competently made power cord to sound different from another. Especially when explained by the hooey that this AQ guy tried to foist off with a straight face. BUT... as you might expect, the reviewer was impressed by the improvement in sound made by the AQ cord versus the Emo stock cord. I am not quoting his flowery quackery descriptions because it is too much to type and I've typed enough already. Get the January issue and see for yourself. All I have to say is, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Folks who regularly visit the lounge know I am not one to normally go postal, but this just got me going... I think that's the last straw. How much of this idiotic stuff can I read before going berserk? I guess I found the limit. HAHA...I couldn't agree more, I've never bought into that crap, it's bad enough I have spent too much money in the past on ICs. Granted, a well put together IC that doesn't cost an arm and a leg is something I believe in I also know that I can't hear paint dry or ants fart, so the power cord thing is just plain stupid in my eyes. Actually I completely agree with Stereophile regarding the NRG-X3. I'm currently using one on my cd player, one on my PrePro, and testing a third on my amp. It's a damn good powercord that has lowered the noise floor in my system. Highly recommended. |
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