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Post by w27 on Dec 16, 2011 0:07:08 GMT -5
Hey guys, I just received a new Emotiva ERC-2 CD player. It was supposed to replace my Sony DVPS9000ES which is about ten years old and starting to act up. I read some good things about the Emotiva. It arrived the other day. It was well packaged, and seemed to be built very solid.
Upon hooking it up, I hear no difference. First to an Integra DHC 9.9 I tried both the digital and analog outs. The analog output was slightly louder, but if anything I would say that the Sony was ever so slightly smoother.
I also hooked it up to a Rotel system I have comparing to a Rotel CD player. Analog only this time. The levels were matched and I could not tell the difference when switching back and forth (2 of the same CD in each player just changing inputs)
Are most all CD players going to sound the same? If I bought a $100 CD player from Best Buy would it be indistinguishable as well? The Emotiva was not bad in any way. In fact I think it is a very nice player. However, I expected there to be some kind of difference.
The bottom line... I feel that I gained nothing in this purchase. It won't even play the couple of SACD's that I have. I'm wondering if I should return it and go with an Oppo, so it will at least play all the formats and maybe offer me better bluray playback as well. I initially was going to get the 95 but was talked into this from a friend who is a huge Emo fan. After hearing no difference in any of the 3 players, I doubt I could tell the difference between the Oppo 95 or 93. The 93 would be pretty close in cost.
I really appreciate any insight you all may have. Especially those of you who have already made this decision. If it matters, the speakers I used testing were an all Klipsch RF-7 system with the Integra and B&W 804's with the Rotel. Both what I would consider to be pretty revealing setups.
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Post by essheil on Dec 16, 2011 4:18:17 GMT -5
There's a lot of factors involved. your source component whatever it is are only going to sound it's best when MATCHED properly with the RIGHT components. The emotiva erc 2 is best designed for OTHER EMOTIVA gear not necessarily the COMPONENTS you already have. Speakers have a lot to do with it too. Because the EMOTIVA erc 2 IS NOT a universal player like the OPPO which I have both manufacturers, it is best suited with an EMOTIVA PREAMP like the USP-1 but you want to wait until the new preamp comes out. I have many systems and I have experimented so many times in the past 35 yrs and as a former electronic tech, I can tell you, IT TAKES TIME to match something of your liking. The emotiva may not be suited well at all in any of your chosen components but the oppo maybe a better choice in this matter. I do know that my oppo works perfectly with my sunfire gear. If you want some audible differences, you may have to use SOUND PROCESSORS which I'm big advocate of IF people aren't satisfied with BASIC setups. According to a sound engineer I have read, it is also from RECORDING. You can have the best designed player, if the recording is a bad one, A good source will play every detail of that bad recording. There are big differences in any COMPONENT. I owned the kenwood sovereign 5700 player and it was a very good universal player during it's time, but it is garbage in comparison to any of my CDP's especially my grant fidelity cd 427 blue laser tube hdcd player. My nad modified c 542 by R.A.M is another. Both players are amazing but without good amplifiers, preamps and cables, it would be like cooking, having all the wrong ingredients. Simply upgrading a CD player will not make much improvements. The emotiva erc-2 will only be as good as the rest of your component. It has been designed to achieve it's best performance on OTHER emotiva gear or SIMILAR designs. The matching that you have maybe WAY OFF in regards to the various designs of EACH manufacturers intended results. In your case, the emotiva may not be suited for the rest of your components. You might want to get various tweaks such as bybees, dakioms or any device that helps out on vibration or get a better dac. My choice of tweaks are using bbe, behringer maximizers dbx or peavey sound processors and equalizers graphic or parametric and the use of electronic crossovers. You can go to www.123dj.com if you're interested. Pro equipment and change the dynamics of systems for home. In fact emerald physics specifically designed their loudspeakers to use either behringer or dbx electronic crossovers that is used in pro gear. I would highly recommend getting other emotiva gear especially their PREAMP in order to use the full capability of the ERC 2 and ASK some of the senior emotiva members here who are happy with their setup and knowledgeable on audio gear. If you had their amps, preamps and speakers, you can sure bet there will be a great improvement in how your erc 2 will sound. Remember ROTEL is a high end manufacturer, so you're pretty much comparing one high end to another high end? If you want to watch and listen to music the OPPO is always the best choice in this case. The ERC 2 was designed for critical dedicated STEREO music only systems not multi purpose AUDIO/VIDEO using multichannels! The oppo is designed for such purposes! GOOD LUCK!
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Post by SticknStones on Dec 16, 2011 6:37:43 GMT -5
When I bought my ERC it was replacing a decades old Technics. Also, I was not a member of this forum on a regular basis and was more on AVS where I thought they were kind of brutal on perspectives. So............I decided as a consumer to try and research "How to Evaluate a CD player" and spent some 2 months putting the results into a "best I can do" effort to be credible on this very question. Please read; emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=mediareviews&action=display&thread=5776I hope this will give you some insight as to how you might evaluate as well. I must also say that I also spent a lot of time learning more advanced techniques for using forum technologies like building tables so I could present the results in a format that could be read given the length of the document. I hope this helps you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 7:19:24 GMT -5
For many years now I have been on a journey to find the best playback for CD and have been seriously auditioning players in my home (and others). Based on this experience I can say that I have clearly heard differences in CD reproduction by simply changing the player (e.g., same cables, connection, speakers, pre-amp, etc). The pinnacle was the Ayre C-5xe that I had the pleasure of hearing in the home of Brian Ding from Rythmik. We were listening to his various subs but the music that was played was material with which I was very familiar and the difference was almost immediately noticeable. It was actually shocking. Of course, spending $5k on CD playback was not in my future, but this experience spurred me to try as many players as possible. In a very brief period of time I had acquired quite a few CD players from a $20 20-year old, a 18 year old JVC, the ERC-1, plus many others. I did find differences in the music, sometimes these were subtle while other times there were vast differences. Detail resolution, sound staging, bottom end, and engagement were some of the noticeable differences. Just the other day, I was auditioning the same SACDs (two-channel) via analog connections, switching them between my Oppo B83 and my Sony 5400ES. Huge differences. The Sony was warmer, had far more detail resolution, and had a broader sound stage. Of course, this particular Oppo is more built for BRD playback so the comparison may have been a bit unfair but it does service to highlight the differences that can be heard in CD playback. We will see how well the Sony does when it is pitted against a more worthy opponent in the Oppo CD95. Best of luck to you in your quest.
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kse
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Post by kse on Dec 16, 2011 11:58:40 GMT -5
To the OP,
Short answer to a long question: If you do not require, or desire, a stand-alone CD player, then yes, I think you would be better off with an Oppo unit.
Some folks, myself included, like having a deticated CD-player, or some may have a set-up where video media isn't used. In these instances a player like the ERC-1 is great. However a system that is pulling double duty as a theater and a music listening room, then I would agree that an Oppo player makes more sense.
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Post by w27 on Dec 19, 2011 17:22:50 GMT -5
Thank you for all your replies.
essheil: I have to disagree that I'm not hearing the difference because of my other equipment not being up to par. I feel that my current processor and preamps are every bit as good as what's currently being offered by Emotiva. I almost bought a pair of XPA-1's about a year and a half ago, but wasn't impressed with what they had for a preamp. The tech I spoke with at Emotiva told me that the new preamp would be out before the end of the year. That was in 2010... and I'm still waiting.
That being said, I never said anything negative about the ERC-2. I just expected to hear a more obvious difference. Both units I compared it to were pretty good CD players. I'm just looking for the best value, as I feel most people that have Emotiva products are. I have been very busy with work and family visiting that I haven't had much time to compare. The more I use it the more I like it. Even though I'm still not hearing much difference I have noticed some positives. It seems to read scratched CD's better than my other. It hasn't skipped yet:) Also I like the way you can fast forward at different speeds. That's enough right there to make me keep it.
sticknstones: WOW!!! What a write up that was! I'll read through that again when I have more time to really sit down and listen.
rather: The 2 CD players I was initially considering was the Sony 5400 that you have and the Oppo 95. I was then talked into trying out the ERC-2. I think that's the problem, in my head I know I went the cheap way out. I wonder if there would have been much difference in getting the higher end Sony. Also if I would have heard any difference it would have been easy to tell if I thought it was an improvement or not.
kse: I do enjoy having a stand alone CD player. I have multiple systems in my home. In fact I have a separate 2 channel analog set up in this room with my home theater. My number 1 priority is whatever unit is going to give me the best red book CD playback. If the Oppo would sound equally good and improve my video playback, that makes more sense.
In addition.. I ordered an XPA-2 to compare as well. If it worked well I was going to order the XPA-5 as well before the sale ends. It showed up today. I only had a little time to unpack it before work. When I plugged it in and powered it up the LED lights on the right side all lit red. Pushing the power button on the front of the amp didn't turn it off and on, but only made the lights light up in different ways. I had nothing connected to the amp (luckily)
I called Emotiva on the way to work. The tech informed me that the unit may have built up a static charge during shipping. He recommended that I spray compressed air into the vents. He said that should dissipate the built up electricity. This sounds very strange to me. I've never heard of such a thing. I'll try it tomorrow and see what happens. I'm going to post this in the amp section and see if anyone has experienced this.
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 19, 2011 20:18:51 GMT -5
To the OP, Short answer to a long question: If you do not require, or desire, a stand-alone CD player, then yes, I think you would be better off with an Oppo unit. Some folks, myself included, like having a deticated CD-player, or some may have a set-up where video media isn't used. In these instances a player like the ERC-1 is great. However a system that is pulling double duty as a theater and a music listening room, then I would agree that an Oppo player makes more sense. I'm one of those 'Some folks'. I have a vintage Realistic CD-1000. My LG BD player is ok. This older than dirt, first gen, CD player sounds better. It's clearer in the 500+ Hz range. It's a little lacking in bass response but, I can easily adjust. I have not had the opportunity to hear an Emo player. I would sure like to. Some day.
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kse
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Post by kse on Dec 19, 2011 20:34:28 GMT -5
I'm one of those 'Some folks'. I have a vintage Realistic CD-1000. Nice! You need to list that bad boy in your equipment profile. ;D
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Post by xki on Dec 19, 2011 20:49:28 GMT -5
I'm one of those 'Some folks'. I have a vintage Realistic CD-1000. Nice! You need to list that bad boy in your equipment profile. ;D DUH!
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kse
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Post by kse on Dec 19, 2011 21:03:41 GMT -5
Haha, there ya go. I like seeing older gear still being put to use. Cheers.
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xki
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Post by xki on Dec 19, 2011 21:15:18 GMT -5
Haha, there ya go. I like seeing older gear still being put to use. Cheers. That unit was bought in '84. First CD was Howard Jones. LOL
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Post by w27 on Dec 19, 2011 23:08:34 GMT -5
I think you're confused sir, cause that sure looks like your VCR
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Post by audiohead on Dec 20, 2011 7:46:41 GMT -5
That Realistic CD player was my first one back in 1984 too.I paid $399.99 for it. Back in the day Realistic was putting out some nice audio gear.
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Post by House on Dec 20, 2011 9:52:32 GMT -5
I think you're confused sir, cause that sure looks like your VCR I think your confused cuz that sure looks like it says "COMPACT DISC" on it.......
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 10:58:41 GMT -5
W27, I'm not surprised that you didn't much (if any) difference. Once you get to a certain quality level, most CD players will sound about the same. If there are any differences, they will show up via the DACs and the analog output stage. This is why I consider it foolish to spend exorbitant money (> $1,000) on a CD player. Players such as the Oppo 95 are about as good as anyone ever needs for CD playback. And their real benefit lies in being able to playback DVD and BRD music files which support higher bit rates and a much broader fequency response range.
CD is a limited medium. It is limited because it only supports 16 bit, 44.1KHz playback. If you have a player like the Oppo, you can then realize better sound quality by playing back DVDs and BRDs which support up to 24 bits and 192 KHz output. The biggest difference is found in the extra 8 bits (24 vs 16) that DVD/BRD support. It allows for much greater dynamic range and can capture the "sizzle" of a high-hat, the instant attack of a cymbal or triangle being struck, a singer's voice as she inhales prior to singing, the slam of a bass drum or piano key being struck, etc.
Rather, I'm sure the Ayre is a very fine CD player, but your observation of its sound quality is basically flawed. You heard the Ayre in a foreign system, one with which you have no prior experience. Any number of elements of that system could have been responsible for the glorious sound you heard. To ascribe it to the Ayre alone is not accurate.
If you had substituted one of your CD players for the Ayre and then made your observation, it would have more validity. And this doesn't mean physically swapping one player for another. You would have to do a direct, real-time switch from one to the other. Audio memory is *very* fleeting, and even a few seconds time between switching players is too long.
EssHeil, could you *please* insert some paragraph breaks in your posts? They are virtually un-readable without them. And I must admit that your posts look very much like another member's whom I don't believe is with us anymore - GerbilAudio. You don't happen to have a bunch of Dakiom Stabilizers in your systems, do you?
Long story, short: If you want a top-quality CD player that will also allow you to play every shiny disc available today, buy the Oppo 95. But you must use its analog outputs to gain the benefit of its superior DACs and output stage. If you use HDMI as your playback "pipe", go with the Oppo 93, it will sound virtually identical t the 95 via this connection...
Best Wishes,
-RW-
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Post by briank on Dec 20, 2011 13:58:09 GMT -5
Valid points RW, but Wow, someone needs a woman. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 14:04:53 GMT -5
BrianK, you got that right. I am currently "auditioning" several models of women procured from Match.com - results to follow...<g>
-RW-
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Post by House on Dec 20, 2011 14:35:00 GMT -5
Valid points RW, but Wow, someone needs a woman. ;D to do what....tell him what he can or cant do? ...damn did I say that?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 14:40:45 GMT -5
Trust me, House, no woman tells me what to do with my audio or video systems. The display and setup of my AV stuff is done by me, period. I do, however, cede control to them for the setup of the bedroom, bathrooms, living areas, kitchen, etc.
So far, this has never been an issue with any of the ladies I associate with. If it does become an issue, she's gone...
-RW-
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Post by thepcguy on Dec 20, 2011 14:43:48 GMT -5
See the Preamp, CD Player part....
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