Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 3, 2012 1:41:43 GMT -5
I used to have four Outlaw subs, and it was incredible! Now I'm down to just one after selling three of them to make room in a small house, and I kick myself every day lol. Stupid! Now I have a 20x22 HT room, and I'm dying to add more subs.
My point is that once you go with multiple subs, there's just no going back to a single imo. Don't be like me. Buy multiple subs and keep them. You'll be very glad in the end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 1:51:17 GMT -5
.....All of these were optimally placed, calibrated both individually and collectively and EQed collectively using a Velodyne SMS-1......the "tactile" sensation was no where near what you would imagine considering that much firepower.....The other subs where not used as they did nothing but muddy and bloat the sound. I respect SVS for HT, but their earlier offerings were not "musical" IMO...... Doc, I found your post extremely interesting. I have a couple of thoughts which in no way are meant to be argumentative. As I'm sure you know subs and obtaining maximum performance is a real art. I know the usual feeling that sealed subs are superior for music although it seems that many brands have made this a thing of the past. You had five excellent subs for the price and I did notice your reference to calibrating them. I only have two comments about your post. Usually the tactile sensation in movies with state of the art low bass frequencies comes from 20Hz and below, which is the frequency cutoff at which humans can only feel and no longer hear bass. I wonder if you measured and were getting significant bass at and below 20Hz at your seat. I also would be interested if you by any chance reversed the location of the Valors and either the SVS box or cylinder subs for your music evaluation. I know the Valors were considered an excellent sub for music. I just know the perceived boominess and bloated sound is often related to the placement in the room. The SMS-1 should have solved most of this but just curious. ;D
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 3, 2012 2:09:21 GMT -5
From some' I read; best is four subs. ...In the room's (rectangular) four corners, or near the four corners. * Good for overall balance, and realistic effects. Reason for edit: (rectangular).
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 3, 2012 3:39:28 GMT -5
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Post by laserman35 on Jan 3, 2012 11:13:56 GMT -5
I have put 24 12" kicker subs in a Mazda B2200 small pickup truck.
A few years later i put 4 12" Soundstream subs in a Mazda B2200.
The first truck had just a little more bass than truck 2 at 5 x the cost.
The sound quality was better with 4 subs. And made only a little difference in maximum SPL.
Lesson learned fewers good subs is always better than many junky ones.
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xki
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Gwack!
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Post by xki on Jan 3, 2012 11:45:53 GMT -5
.....the look on their faces when they get their Buttkicked is priceless!..........I REALLY want to be one of those! Have you considered playing soccer? LOL - Not for the faint of 'heart'.
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Post by flamingeye on Jan 3, 2012 13:45:10 GMT -5
Buttkickers and all is great but nothing beats a good pair of subs optimally placed and tuned IMHO
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 3, 2012 14:22:57 GMT -5
Buttkickers and all is great but nothing beats a good pair of subs optimally placed and tuned IMHO Hearing and feeling are 2 very different senses. Of course well tuned sub(s) are critical. I have installed transducers at 4 friends homes now. This all was triggered by them experiencing the kickers in my setup. Easy to A/B the effect, as I was able to replay a movie scene with and without the kicker amp switched on.
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Post by Topend on Jan 3, 2012 15:59:32 GMT -5
Buttkickers and all is great but nothing beats a good pair of subs optimally placed and tuned IMHO Hearing and feeling are 2 very different senses. Of course well tuned sub(s) are critical. I have installed transducers at 4 friends homes now. This all was triggered by them experiencing the kickers in my setup. Easy to A/B the effect, as I was able to replay a movie scene with and without the kicker amp switched on. Ok Hemster, Not only did you help me out with my projector decisions, now you have got me thinking about butt kickers. If you asked me a couple of months ago what I think about projectors and butt kickers, I would have said I have no interest in them. How things change. Dave.
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 3, 2012 18:51:35 GMT -5
Hey chuckie, thanks for noticing and for the feedback. I'll gladly answer your questions as best I can... Usually the tactile sensation in movies with state of the art low bass frequencies comes from 20Hz and below, which is the frequency cutoff at which humans can only feel and no longer hear bass. I wonder if you measured and were getting significant bass at and below 20Hz at your seat. Yes, absolutely. It's been awhile, so I don't remember the "exact" measurement, but it was pushing in the vicinity of 105 to 110 db. Anything that wasn't nailed down definitely shook. I also would be interested if you by any chance reversed the location of the Valors and either the SVS box or cylinder subs for your music evaluation. I know the Valors were considered an excellent sub for music. I just know the perceived boominess and bloated sound is often related to the placement in the room. The SMS-1 should have solved most of this but just curious. Oh yes... getting the optimum position was a very laborious task. Many hours were spent, both measuring and listening, to get it as "right" as I could. Each sub was located, individually calibrated and then "unity" EQed using the SMS-1. Each location was then graphed and notes taken, then locations were changed the process repeated until I found the setup that worked best. As it ended up, I preferred the Valors up front in what was nearly "1/4 wall" locations. Unfortunately, this is also where my front mains were located, so I modified the stands to sit on top of the Valors... The SVS PB12-NSD/2s ended up with one at approximately 1/3 of the way down the left side wall and the other at approximately a little more than 1/2 way down the right side wall. The SVS Ultra (the hot water heater... ;D) ended up in the rear left corner. I found that, for music, just using the Valors (un-EQed with SMS-1 bypassed) sounded best. That could have been just because they're great subs for music, or it could also be that they were just in a great spot in the room. I think it was both... ;D So, yep, a lot of work went into the process. I actually had pictures, but my ex-wife has probably long since destroyed them. Please don't get me wrong, for HT, it was great and, if you were sitting on the seat risers, it was awesome. But my point was/is that if you are in a situation where you have even one adverse condition, like a concrete floor (in my case), you'll never throw enough sound waves at it to move it. If you can't move it, you'll never "feel" it like you should. The "construction" of the room plays a very important part in the overall experience. (...end of point..... ) In this scenario, "my" main seat was sitting directly on the floor (carpet over concrete), therefore "my" experience was much different than a guest who was seated directly behind me on a riser (carpet over a wood frame). What I was hoping for was to be like the dude in the old Maxell tape commercials sitting in the chair with his hair blowing straight back, but I didn't get that. It was good, but not "awesome". I could feel the bass in my chest and, every so often, my pant legs would flutter, but I wanted that "mule kick" in the chest and that "boot up my ass". That didn't quite happen.... So now, with a room half the size and little room for placement flexibility (which is why I use the SVS AS-EQ1), I'm going back to basics. Since my interests are "music first" and movies second. I'm going back to a smaller pair of "musical" subs and, yep (since I'm still on concrete), Buttkickers. Hey, if they're good enough for IMAX, they're good enough for me... ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 20:18:18 GMT -5
Thanks Doc for the additional info, great stuff!!!
;D
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ray
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Ordered the new XMC-1.....well I am on the list!!
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Post by ray on Jul 4, 2012 19:04:05 GMT -5
2 definitely. My dual 18 inch Dynasties will rock this home. From Epik. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by RightinLA on Jul 5, 2012 7:23:49 GMT -5
I used to have four Outlaw subs, and it was incredible! Now I'm down to just one after selling three of them to make room in a small house, and I kick myself every day lol. Stupid! Now I have a 20x22 HT room, and I'm dying to add more subs. My point is that once you go with multiple subs, there's just no going back to a single imo. Don't be like me. Buy multiple subs and keep them. You'll be very glad in the end. From some' I read; best is four subs. ...In the room's (rectangular) four corners, or near the four corners. * Good for overall balance, and realistic effects. Reason for edit: (rectangular).Yes I agree that multiple subs for a HT room is a nice way to go. I've used multiple subs in my HT rooms and the effect is striking due to bass reinforcement. Sometimes you need to experiment with placement, but the 4 corner placement is a good starting point. You also have backup if one fails.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 5, 2012 16:35:30 GMT -5
I now have another SVS PB12-Plus due to be delivered next week and I blame it on all of you Lounge members that have been pushing at least a dual subwoofer setup. You guys are a bad influence!!! ;D Especially Edogg.
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Post by Dr. Feel Good on Jul 5, 2012 17:02:26 GMT -5
you guys are NUTS, CRAZY, WACKJOBS, and I shall soon join you all in small way. got 2 Sunfire Super Jr's 8's yes yes I know, they're small only 8's but the room is also small..etc etc etc.. they'll be running w/Orb audio. I'll keep ya all posted when I set them up in a few weeks. Doc.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 5, 2012 17:16:44 GMT -5
you guys are NUTS, CRAZY, WACKJOBS, and I shall soon join you all in small way. got 2 Sunfire Super Jr's 8's yes yes I know, they're small only 8's but the room is also small..etc etc etc.. they'll be running w/Orb audio. I'll keep ya all posted when I set them up in a few weeks. Doc. Hey Doc, I think the both of us are in for a real treat!!!
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Post by audiohead on Jul 5, 2012 17:24:37 GMT -5
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 5, 2012 18:17:54 GMT -5
Using 2 subs as opposed to just one is a superior decision. Even without calibration, you will immediately notice the much, much "smoother response" with the absence of the dramatic peaks and valleys. Now, for those of us planning on buying the XMC-1, we are in for an even better treat. There is a reason that the XMC-1 has Stereo Sub Outs. That is primarily because TacT was developed for stereo sub usage. There is no down side to using multiple subs. LC: You know that we are waiting for your impressions as soon as you are able to take the grin off your face ;D
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Post by edoggrc51 on Jul 5, 2012 18:59:39 GMT -5
I now have another SVS PB12-Plus due to be delivered next week and I blame it on all of you Lounge members that have been pushing at least a dual subwoofer setup. You guys are a bad influence!!! ;D Especially Edogg. Me???!!! What I do?!!! ;D Congrats on the subs man! Just think of what it'll sound like when you add 2 more. Quads all the way baby!! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2012 19:08:30 GMT -5
Ya LC, quit being a sissy and step up!! I heard that running anything less than 4 subs means you have a small..... pee pee....wait, or was that the other way around?? Ugh Ohhh for Eric and me!
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