FAQ: Room Correction Systems (Audyssey, etc.)

[hemster]

Feel free to discuss all about Audyssey here.

Here are some starter links..

Audyssey 'How-to'



Audyssey Tips and Tricks

Step by Step and Guides

[NorthStar]

Excellent!

________________

* Very Good = Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (Top flavor from Audyssey).
{Below: Audyssey MultEQ XT, Audyssey MultEQ, & Audyssey 2EQ.}
=> Audyssey is available in Onkyo/Integra, Denon, Marantz, NAD products (AV Receivers & Pre/pros). And also in separate Audyssey products.

* Better = Audyssey MultEQ PRO (with the kit).

* Also very good = ARC (best implementation: in the Anthem Statement D2v/ARC pre/pro).

* Also very good = TRINNOV (Limited availability: Sherwood Newcastle).

* Very good too = JBL Synthesis with upgraded ARCOS (Version 3.0) => Harman Kardon division.
{ARCOS = Adaptive Room Correction & Optimization System.}

* Very good also = Lexicon with ARCOS & QLS (not yet released, and on hold; parts issue) => HK division.
{QLS = Quantum Logic Surround.}
*** Lexicon latest pre/pro has been cnacelled!

* Very good as well = TacT. Comes in two main flavors: RCS, usualy for 2 & 4 channels (with 2 Subs), and TCS, for Multichannel.
- RCS -> Room Correction System.
- TCS -> Theater Control System.

________________

We can talk about all these systems here, and even the ones that are not mentioned above ...
After all, it's an open forum on discussions Audio related (Surround Sound & Auto/Manual Room EQ & Calibration Systems with Acoustic Properties).

And it's just a too small Forum here at the Lounge (I think), to have various threads on each system; Audyssey & all. Because it is when compared with other systems that you truly go into depth into Audyssey, or any other system. Right?

____________

*** And because the new Emotiva XMC-1 Surround Sound Processor (pre/pro) will include TacT (June/July 2012 release date); that would be also very appropriate to talk about its implementation here. ... Very exciting indeed!

1. XMC-1 Spec Sheet

2. XMC-1 Podcast

3. The Official XMC-1 Product Overview Thread

[hemster]

^Bob, I think we can discuss all types of systems here. Changed the thread title to reflect that.

[NorthStar]

Perfect!

But then it ain't a 'Sticky'.

[hemster]

It is now. Didn't use enough glue! ;D

[NorthStar]

;D ...I saw that.

[NorthStar]

Just for pure information sake, I asked some pro experts from another forum which system is the very best. ...Among Tact, Trinnov, Audyssey, ARC, and JBL Synthesis.

And one of those experts said: It depends; it depends of the amount of time you take in learning and adjusting the parameters, positioning the microphone, reading and improving the graphs accurately (by trials & errors), by measuring and remeasuring, and by fixing your room's acoustics.
The more you spend with a particular system the more you get the hang of it.

And then he went on to say that he prefers Audyssey MultEQ XT32,
the Pro version with the Audyssey Pro kit.

Also, some of the very best pro audio writers and reviewers and professional studio recording/mixing engineers use Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Pro version for their own personal use.

I am just reporting the facts.

[NorthStar]

Anyone else would like to share his own personal experience? Or any thoughts at all?

[jamrock]

Proliferation of use is not a completely reliable indication of being best. One of the biggest factor that has nothing to do with quality is cost. Another is ease of use. Yet another is better marketing. Then there is the licensing agreement. And on, and on, and on! A pre/pro/amp combo is considered superior performing to an AVR with the similar features. Yet, most people, even those who can afford better, go for the all in one box AVR. Why? My greatest hope is that TacT is implemented correctly in the XMC-1 and it works as intended. And Dan's euphoric response from hearing the prototype XMC-1 does nothing but to assure me that it is guaranteed

[NorthStar]

The Integra DHC-80.2 pre/pro can be found for $1,200.

And yet it is the pre/pro of choice by many professionals!

__________________

What was it you were saying Jam?

[jamrock]

I don't think that your post answers anything. Do you consider $1,200.00 for the Integra inexpensive, is it reliable, accurate, has no glaring weakenss (does everything o'k but nothing special)? The fact many professionals use it is not the same as MOST professionals use it. The room correction system deployed in the Integra is better implemented than what other pre/pro which uses the same RCS? If not, the reason could be anything, even as simple as pure hype.

Many of the folks who post on this forum and other forums too, don't give jack about science. They are simply here to hype what they like. And many 'unlearned' and 'gullibles' will buy into that hype and swear that they hear differences when there is not one scintilla of scientific evidence to back it up.

[NorthStar]

Hey hey hey wait a minute now mister!

AVS (Audio Video Science) Forums they do give a damn about science over there!
Just go check, you'll see!

And even here at the Lounge we have some pretty high caliber members.
Do you need their names?

[NorthStar]

Here's a very simple and friendly discussion among good people and talking Trinnov ST2 and other stuff of that sort.

---Trinnov ST2 & Plus

[jamrock]

Feb 3, 2012 22:00:29 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Hey hey hey wait a minute now mister!

AVS (Audio Video Science) Forums they do give a damn about science over there!
Just go check, you'll see!

And even here at the Lounge we have some pretty high caliber members.
Do you need their names?

Again, I need to point out that my post says: "Many folks" not "Everybody" There are members of this forum for whom I have the most profound respect for their intellectual integrity and their simple honesty. But, I have been involved in this hobby long enough to know that A/V credentials sometimes take a back seat to integrity. Read some of the A/V mag reviewers. Saying all that, I believe that there are those who, because of their 'association' with the Audyssey people, become cult followers. And seem not able to accept the idea that another RCS, namely TacT, not only compete equally, but might possibly surpass their ideal

[NorthStar]

Feb 3, 2012 23:42:08 GMT -5 jamrock said:

Feb 3, 2012 22:00:29 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Hey hey hey wait a minute now mister!

AVS (Audio Video Science) Forums they do give a damn about science over there!
Just go check, you'll see!

And even here at the Lounge we have some pretty high caliber members.
Do you need their names?

Again, I need to point out that my post says: "Many folks" not "Everybody" There are members of this forum for whom I have the most profound respect for their intellectual integrity and their simple honesty. But, I have been involved in this hobby long enough to know that A/V credentials sometimes take a back seat to integrity. Read some of the A/V mag reviewers. Saying all that, I believe that there are those who, because of their 'association' with the Audyssey people, become cult followers. And seem not able to accept the idea that another RCS, namely TacT, not only compete equally, but might possibly surpass their ideal

Total baloney! Non-sense to the extreme! ;D

[NorthStar]

I thought it would be a good idea perhaps for people to first understand the Loudspeakers & Rooms Interaction/Integration.

{Physics of Time, Space & Sound}

Click ->_Loudspeakers and Rooms - Working Together

Reason for edit: not sure about an emoticon or not ...

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2012 21:36:49 GMT -5 jamrock said:

Many of the folks who post on this forum and other forums too, don't give jack about science. They are simply here to hype what they like. And many 'unlearned' and 'gullibles' will buy into that hype and swear that they hear differences when there is not one scintilla of scientific evidence to back it up.

Plus One!

For anyone interested in what a highly regarded professional thinks on this topic there is for me a definitive comment over at Audioholics by Gene DellaSala, President:

".....NEVER trust Audyssey or any auto-room correction system to properly set crossover frequency for your speakers. Audyssey can't deal with a boundary gain of a speaker placed closely to a wall so it will assume the speaker is large and set a low crossover point....."

[jamrock]

Feb 3, 2012 23:52:20 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Feb 3, 2012 23:42:08 GMT -5 jamrock said:

Again, I need to point out that my post says: "Many folks" not "Everybody" There are members of this forum for whom I have the most profound respect for their intellectual integrity and their simple honesty. But, I have been involved in this hobby long enough to know that A/V credentials sometimes take a back seat to integrity. Read some of the A/V mag reviewers. Saying all that, I believe that there are those who, because of their 'association' with the Audyssey people, become cult followers. And seem not able to accept the idea that another RCS, namely TacT, not only compete equally, but might possibly surpass their ideal

Total baloney! Non-sense to the extreme!

That is not an intelligent rebuttal. Just a reactive insult. But that's o'k. But I have seen where those who swear by Audyssey, take issue with those who say they believe that they get better result with manual calibration over using Audyssey or any RCS. I have seen where they seem irritated when any deficiency of Audyssey is mentioned: X/O issues, no graphs, inflexibility, etc. But those same folks find it natural to criticize the deficiencies of the (the non-competing) Emo-Q. It is not that their counter arguments sometimes don't have justification. It is their attitude that you dare to find fault with Audyssey. I think that the euphoria created over TacT might start a war when the XMC-1 is finally released and both RCSs can be compared.

[thepcguy]

Conclusion

The problem with digital room correction is that it only addresses the frequency domain. Depending on the room, they may do a rather good job. However, if your room is causing a 30 dB cut at 100 Hz, these digital systems won’t be able to fix this. Most of them can only boost the signal by something like 6 dB, which isn’t enough to cover the 30 dB lost by your room acoustics.

As far as the time domain goes, I think it’s obvious to note that no amount of EQ will fix this problem.

I’ve used both acoustic treatment and the IK Multimedia ARC system. My findings? I heard an immediate difference as soon as I put up some acoustic foam to the left and right of my speakers. The sound was instantly tighter and more defined. With ARC, there was a difference, but it wasn’t as dramatic.

The goal of this article is not to sway you from digital correction products. They can be a valuable tool in helping create an accurate mixing environment. I love the JBL LSR monitors. They sound amazing, even without any room correction. Digital room correction, when added to acoustic treatment, can be very effective. However, nothing…I repeat nothing…can replace the need for acoustic treatment.

www.homestudiocorner.com/acoustic-treatment-vs-digital-room-correction/

[NorthStar]

1. Best Analog or Digital EQs in the world (Rane, Rave, ...) DON'T boost any frequencies of the audio spectrum (dips); they only attenuate the peaks. {Graphic, or/and Parametric EQs.}

2. Time domain (delayed reflections) taken into account in a good system like TacT, Audyssey, Trinnov, ARC, JBL Synthesis, etc. are an excellent thing. Without it, you are swimming in the sand.

3. Well measured, calculated and applied room acoustic treatments is always first best thing to do.

* Interesting thread you just started there thepcguy ...