sorbe
Sensei
"Don't cross the streams..."
Posts: 673
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Post by sorbe on Aug 4, 2012 13:53:54 GMT -5
Double Blind ABX testing on the Amps or go home. P.S.> Same thing if you want to sell any overpriced interconnects/speaker cables.
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Post by sharkman on Aug 4, 2012 15:53:35 GMT -5
All amps are not the same.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 4, 2012 16:25:34 GMT -5
All amps are not the same. Some are tubes, some have different topologies (class A , H, AB, D), etc. But if you compare apples to apples, then an ABX will be very revealing.
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Post by sharkman on Aug 4, 2012 18:18:55 GMT -5
You know what? I prefer red delicious, but it has to be grade A, not some left-over-from-last-season stuff.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 4, 2012 20:24:18 GMT -5
You know what? I prefer red delicious, but it has to be grade A, not some left-over-from-last-season stuff. Ha! good one.
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Post by thepcguy on Aug 4, 2012 21:54:17 GMT -5
Here we go again.....
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Post by sharkman on Aug 5, 2012 0:00:08 GMT -5
Man, you totally missed your cue by a few hours! Or are you finally having doubts?
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Post by RightinLA on Aug 5, 2012 1:27:51 GMT -5
Tubes add harmonic distortion that is pleasing to many ears. Many guitarists really love their tube amps for their "sound". Think of it as a form of signal processing. I wonder if Lonnie could add a "tube-sound" mode to the XSP-1? Now that would be hot!
I like tubes, just as I like Mexican Coca-Cola, because as Paul once said, "I believe in yesterday".
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Post by garbulky on Aug 5, 2012 4:42:58 GMT -5
pepsi recently came out with their beverage that has real sugar back in it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 8:41:08 GMT -5
It's not so much that tubes add harmonic distortion - the good ones measure about as well as most sand amps - but that the distortion products they do add are more pleasing to the ear.
And by "tube amps" I'n not talking guitar amps, those are intended to be driven well into distortion modes thus producing that "fat" sound desired by many guitarists.
Very high quality *audio* tube amps (Butler, Rogue, VTL, etc.) just sound great, no doubt about it. And I have also heard very high-quality sand amps (Boulder, Proceed, etc.) as well that also sounded great.
The tube amps generally look cooler, thus increasing your street cred amongst audiophiles, always an important factor <g>...
-RW-
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 5, 2012 11:05:17 GMT -5
+1. 2nd order harmonics sound warm and yummy. 3rd order harmonics sound cold and brittle.
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Post by thepcguy on Aug 5, 2012 17:09:05 GMT -5
Man, you totally missed your cue by a few hours! Or are you finally having doubts? No problem. Knowledge is power.
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Post by sharkman on Aug 5, 2012 19:00:42 GMT -5
Knowledge and truth are pretty lofty goals that I think most fall short of.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 6, 2012 9:20:57 GMT -5
Knowledge and truth are pretty lofty goals that I think most fall short of. So left over from last year can sound just like grade A Red delicious?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 17:09:53 GMT -5
> All $10.00 USD Pino Noir wine taste exactly the same as Gran Cru Richebourg or Romanee-Conti wine.
If I put the wine in a dirty wine glass, that coloured the wine to taste like apple juice, I would be disappointed.
And if I put music into an amplifier that coloured the music so it sounded different, I would say the amplifier was defective. An amplifier should amplify, not distort. If an amplifier changed the music; made it warmer, or brighter, or whatever; I'd return the amplifier...
Sincerely /blair
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Post by thepcguy on Aug 6, 2012 21:41:59 GMT -5
> All $10.00 USD Pino Noir wine taste exactly the same as Gran Cru Richebourg or Romanee-Conti wine. If I put the wine in a dirty wine glass, that coloured the wine to taste like apple juice, I would be disappointed. And if I put music into an amplifier that coloured the music so it sounded different, I would say the amplifier was defective. An amplifier should amplify, not distort. If an amplifier changed the music; made it warmer, or brighter, or whatever; I'd return the amplifier... Sincerely /blair Or you can keep several amplifiers. 1. colder - use during summer 2. warmer - use during winter 3. brighter - use at night 4. muddy - mud wrestling? ;D
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 6, 2012 22:08:34 GMT -5
Hope everyone will indulge another sound explanation that some may find helpful or interesting. As mentioned above when properly designed tube or solid state amps are used within their limits they don't produce much distortion. However when Harmonic Distortion exists (measured as THD), tube amps tend to produce more even order harmonic distortion and solid state tend to produce more odd order harmonic distortion (Harmonic Distortion is when an amp produces a 'harmonic' of a specific tone that is not present in the original signal).
Some time back Pythagorus discovered harmonics and figured out which ones sound better to humans, turns out that even harmonics are generally more pleasing to the ear (harmonics are whole multiples of a fundamental tone). Fortunately THD is made up of mostly low order harmonics (multiples less than 10) as higher order harmonics include more displeasing tone intervals.
Musicians often use harmonics in their playing, a guitarist can lightly hold their finger at the 12th fret and cause the string's 2nd harmonic to dominate, or hold it at the 7th fret and get the 3rd. If we just look at the 1st seven harmonics you can get an idea how even order might sound better (this will make more sense to musicians). I'll use A-440 as the fundamental as that makes the math easy. The columns are:
Harmonic - Frequency - Note - Interval 1 - 440 - A - The Fundamental 2 - 880 - A - Octave Above 3 - 1320 - E - 5th Above 4 - 1760 - A - 2nd Octave Above 5 - 2200 - C# - Maj 3rd Above ( 6 - 2640 - E - 2nd 5th Above 7 - 3080 - G - Min 7th Above
So even order harmonics would be A, A, E, A (three octaves and a 5th) - a pleasant, simple chord. Odd order harmonics would be A, E, C#, G - a more complex Dominant 7th chord. Musicians will also notice these frequencies don't match tempered tunings, but this is based on natural string/pipe vibration (and cut me some slack on my notation). This lack of 'tempering' makes the harmonic Maj 3rd sound even worse.
I'm certainly stereotyping amps here (ha! an audio pun), but it's done to help explain a concept; a little blend of electronics, acoustics, and music - some more perspective on sound. And I'm in the school that says pick your speaker first and then match your amp to it - I own 3 tube and 3 SS amps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:33:57 GMT -5
Very nice, AudioHTTT, it's great to see some input using the playing of music itself...
-RW-
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Aug 7, 2012 12:03:48 GMT -5
...I'm in the school that says pick your speaker first and then match your amp to it... +1 very sound advice.
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Post by thepcguy on Aug 7, 2012 13:35:53 GMT -5
As mentioned above when properly designed tube or solid state amps are used within their limits they don't produce much distortion. And that's the issue here. and also as stated above, 'No one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion and low noise.'
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