bchav
Minor Hero
Posts: 27
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Post by bchav on Oct 28, 2008 21:13:35 GMT -5
Any more specifics on timing for the 212's? I really want to cancel my pre-order from another company and go with these, but want a more definitive date before I do so.
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Post by Accurus on Oct 29, 2008 0:31:21 GMT -5
bigred,
I was referring to your comment about stereo subs. You can definitely have true stereo subs and they is a substantial difference going from one sub being fed both channels to two subs being fed one channel each. I was describing my own experience with this that for me has been quite beneficial.
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Post by autiger on Oct 29, 2008 7:40:25 GMT -5
bigred, I was referring to your comment about stereo subs. You can definitely have true stereo subs and they is a substantial difference going from one sub being fed both channels to two subs being fed one channel each. I was describing my own experience with this that for me has been quite beneficial. I think  we unnderstand the principal just not your hook up  ? (showing my ignorance, but that's how I learn) Running the subs drectly off the amp channels? Thanks |
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Post by bigred7078 on Oct 29, 2008 7:43:34 GMT -5
bigred, I was referring to your comment about stereo subs. You can definitely have true stereo subs and they is a substantial difference going from one sub being fed both channels to two subs being fed one channel each. I was describing my own experience with this that for me has been quite beneficial. got ya. Well im just saying a properly setup sub or dual subs should sound just as good and give off the same feeling. Then again depends on the subs used. |
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Post by Accurus on Oct 29, 2008 10:40:48 GMT -5
bigred,
I know where you are coming from on this. I have heard the same thing many times in my audio listening days and still no dealer or home owner has been able to provide a setup that truly does this. I think the biggest issue that never seems to get resolved for me atleast is timing and imaging for a single sub in a music setup. It never seems quite right, in those areas regardless. Again this could be the setup of each system I have hard but I have almost never heard it with a properly setup dual sub system. My system experience is with dipoles that are planars. This could definitely explain the difference in opinion as a dipole has a lot more rear wave room interaction than most cones do.
autiger,
In regards to your question you simple use the high level inputs on your subs as the connection rather than RCA. That way the sub is sampling the same sonic characteristics of the amplifier as the mains so that they blend better. An rca cable is only able to take into account the preamp's sonics and not the amp since it is earlier in the signal path. Rel uses a Neutrik plug for high level inputs and so do some others. However you can use just bare wire high level inputs on any other sub. I would suggest anyone try it as an easy experiment in their system. I think you would be surprised at the difference.
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Post by jmilton on Oct 29, 2008 10:42:39 GMT -5
By high level inputs, do you mean line level inputs?
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Post by Accurus on Oct 29, 2008 10:46:40 GMT -5
No, I mean high level inputs. A lot of subs have terminals in the back for wire that taps into the amplifier outputs and goes directly into the subs high level inputs. There is no RCA cable involved at all.
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Post by jmilton on Oct 29, 2008 10:51:21 GMT -5
...sorry, you are going from the amp to the sub, then from the sub to the speakers...using speaker wires all along...and letting the sub do the crossover? I thought those connections were called line level.  |
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Post by dougie085 on Oct 29, 2008 10:52:03 GMT -5
Yeah thats the same thing as a line level input. Basically you can take the output from a L/R speaker and input it directly.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,493
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Post by DYohn on Oct 29, 2008 11:19:40 GMT -5
Yeah thats the same thing as a line level input. Basically you can take the output from a L/R speaker and input it directly. Something that can accept the output from an amplifier would be a speaker-level input, also called high-level (or high-voltage) in some circles. Many commercial subwoofer amplifiers have speaker-level inputs, often with on-board high-pass filters for speaker-level outputs that pass the filtered signal through to mains speakers. A line-level input cannot accept the output from an amplifier. |
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Post by Accurus on Oct 29, 2008 11:46:10 GMT -5
Ok here is how it is setup. You connect the speakers to the amp like you normally would. No changes there. Then you take a separate wire and connect it from the amplifier to the sub. The sub samples the information and amplifies it on its own. It has no effect at all on the main speakers. The mains are ran full range. Check out Rel's website or the manual for my sub on page 12. www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/manuals/ST-Series-Manual.pdf |
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Post by dougie085 on Oct 29, 2008 11:46:23 GMT -5
Well that's the way its worded on a lot of car amplifiers at least older ones that I've seen. But it was the same sort of function.
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Post by jmilton on Oct 29, 2008 11:48:49 GMT -5
... speaker level, that's it! Thanks  |
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Post by bigred7078 on Oct 29, 2008 23:25:16 GMT -5
bigred, autiger, In regards to your question you simple use the high level inputs on your subs as the connection rather than RCA. That way the sub is sampling the same sonic characteristics of the amplifier as the mains so that they blend better. An rca cable is only able to take into account the preamp's sonics and not the amp since it is earlier in the signal path. Rel uses a Neutrik plug for high level inputs and so do some others. However you can use just bare wire high level inputs on any other sub. I would suggest anyone try it as an easy experiment in their system. I think you would be surprised at the difference. well you must know better than anyone the RELs do an amazing job at this. They were designed to work perefectly as such, not all subs work excellent like this.. |
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Post by Accurus on Oct 30, 2008 10:44:26 GMT -5
bigred,
That is certainly true that mileage may vary. However it is an easy enough thing to try out on a system and see what happens. I tried this out on my computer system. I took my Tannoy subwoofer and fed it directly off the T-amp that I had powering my desktop speakers. The Tannoy sounded much better. Also if you ever talk with the folks at Magnepan they recommend doing the same process on all subwoofers you ever use for music regardless of who makes it. The manual for my MG10s has almost a page dedicated to this style of hookup.
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Post by flamingeye on Oct 30, 2008 11:26:49 GMT -5
That is how I had my passive 15" sub & I agree it`s better that way for music but not for movies at least for me it wasn`t but with multi-channel music with a line for your sub would that still be so ?
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Post by bigred7078 on Oct 30, 2008 11:36:12 GMT -5
the RELs for example can be hooked up as described and also accept an LFE input at the same time so for movies your still getting all the good stuff. But not every sub allows for this.
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Post by Accurus on Oct 30, 2008 12:18:47 GMT -5
bigred,
You are absolutely correct. I also think the Emotiva subs can do this as well. The control unit seems like it has a couple of inputs so this should be possible. Personally I think it is an incredibly smart move by Rel and hopefully other follow suite.
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Post by flamingeye on Oct 30, 2008 12:38:11 GMT -5
Well that would be perfect, beast of worlds ,I would love something like that
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ICBM99
Emo VIPs
When will then be now? ...Soon.
Posts: 1,702
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Post by ICBM99 on Oct 30, 2008 13:20:23 GMT -5
RRRAAARRRRGHHH!!!
J/k of course, but it would be a beast, and the best of both worlds. ;D
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we unnderstand the principal just not your hook up 
? (showing my ignorance, but that's how I learn) Running the subs drectly off the amp channels? Thanks
