XPR-5 First Impressions

[Erwin.BE]

As many of you know, I am building a house with a multipurpose HT in it. It is a long term project. We are aiming to start finishing the ground level including the HT, soon after the year end. At 5,000 cubic feet, it's a large room for HT standards.

Over time, we purchased the Seymour AV acoustic transparent screen (130" B-stock), I built the two LLT ported subs with 18" Maelströms, bought the Behringer NU6000 stereo amp to power the subs.

The aim is to go eleven! I like the front Presence channels on my current Yamaha AVR, so the HT will be 11.2 DSX capable. Been waiting for Marantz to come up with a 11.2 pre-pro replacement of the long overdue AV8003. Now the Marantz AV8801 is finally anounced for the year end. MSRP will be 3,300 euro (ouch!).

What more do we need? Speakers and amps! We cannot afford the speakers I would get if money was no object: the B&W Custom Theatre 800 series. One speaker is 15,000 euro! But if you can build a house, then you can build speakers! I fancy the Troels Gravesen DTQWT designs. These have a tweeter and ("8008") midrange on the front and two big (10") woofers on the back. The box is a folded horn. This produces very good bass and the speaker is getting favourable reviews all over the DIY community.

More, it has a big brother version DTQWT-12 with two 12" woofers on the back. I don't care about the size being 2 feet deep and 5 feet high. I want them for L+R. The "normal" version is excellent for Surround, Back and Wide.

There's a traditional design horizontal center with the same tweeter and two "8008" here as bas drivers. An additional small midrange makes it also a three-way. Mmm, nice, but a bit small compared to the big DTQWT-12. But they will do just fine on the ceiling for Height! I only need to angle the front baffle 20° to aim at MLP. Sssjt, but Troels promised me he would assist in making a big center complementing the DTQWT-12. Since the DTQWT has the woofers on the back, it cannot be put behind the AT screen.

www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008_DTQWT.htm

So when the XPR-5 came avalable, I could not resist ordering it. Delivery was not a happy moment since the box had been wet and was barely holding itself together. But the amp came out just fine. Next I wanted to give it a try.

Problem is the USA powerplug is of no use in EU. I have these adapters, so I used one. But the XPR-5 kept silent. No clicks, no lights, no sound. It took a few days (e-mailed Emo in the mean time) before I had another go and rocking the powerplug in the adapter made the XPR-5 come to life. So lesson one is do not use an adaptor! I bought a heavy duty power plug since I did not want to waste the thick Emotiva powercord. Simply cut the USA thing off, stripped and reconnected. Now we're talking!

[Deleted]

Pictures please

[Erwin.BE]

As the HT is far from ready (haven't even started on the room), I will try the XPR-5 in 2 channel with my Jamo R909 speakers

www.jamo.com/speaker-types/floorstanding/?sku=R909

The normal set-up can be checked in my sig below. To make it easy, I took an iPod touch filled with my favourite 16/44 lossless files, a Pure i20 dock, connected digital coaxial to an XDA-1. Then XLR to ch 2+4 of the XPR-5.

First impression was it did not play loud. But that was because I forgot to make sure the iPod volume was set to max... you also loose a lot of resolution that way. After setting it to max, the XDA-1 volume to 50 made some very impressive soundstage indeed! It did not seem very loud as indeed distortion free loudness is not perceived as loud. But as you notice you missed a telephone call or your family has to shout to make them heard, you know it is loud. After this, I lowered the volume for more casual listening. The set played for several days and filled the house with music. So it plays loud and with no distortion, just like the XPA-1. BTW, the Jamo's can take peaks up to 800 Watts @ 4 ohm. The XPR-5 does this with ease.

A possible downside of the XDA-1 is the volume control is digital (like the iPod). The more you attenuate, the worse it gets. You can compare it to zooming in on a digital photo. Sooner or later, you start to see the pixels. I have a pair of Rothwell XLR attenuators lying around, which you need to put between the XLR interconnects and the amp inputs. They reduce the volume by 10 dB. I put them on, but could not really detect any difference (I raised the XDA-1 10 steps).

In an effort to try some High Res music tonight, I used a pair of 5 meter long XLR interconnects from my Weiss DAC2 into the XPR-5. That way, I could use Amarra software for playback. This auto-switches the sample frequency to match the source. My whole family was off to the heardresser, which gave me a rare opportunity to play what I like and as loud as I like for several hours! I played Kraftwerk (24/88), Serge Gainsbourgh (24/96), The Beatles (24/44), Sly Stone (simple 16/44) and was listening to Jah Wobble's Passage To Hades (plain 16/44) when they got home...

In all honousty I can say that the XPR-5 is, to my ears, a very capable amp that plays very loud without distortion and with excellent resolution. Three-dimensionality is perfect. Just like the XPA-1. If I had the opportunity today to choose between the XPA-1 pair or a XPR-2, I would most likely go for the latter since it will be a bit cheaper, just as good and takes up less room (5RU vs 8RU). And last but not least, it looks like the daddy of amps!

[Erwin.BE]

Aug 16, 2012 16:03:35 GMT -5 @kraemerkid2119 said:

Pictures please

The picture button is missing again...

[The Mad Norseman]

Thanks Erwin - a great initial write up!

It should sound even so much better when you feed it with something other than the iPod, or an external DAC.
Looking forward to some further reports when you lay in some more source equipment, and especially when its hooked into your new HT!

I'm hoping to pair the XPR-5 with the (someday coming!?) Marantz AV8801 - any idea WHEN that Marantz is coming out?
(Looks like the AV7701 won't have XT32...).

[Erwin.BE]

Aug 16, 2012 18:01:26 GMT -5 The Mad Norseman said:

Thanks Erwin - a great initial write up!

It should sound even so much better when you feed it with something other than the iPod, or an external DAC.
Looking forward to some further reports when you lay in some more source equipment, and especially when its hooked into your new HT!

I'm hoping to pair the XPR-5 with the (someday coming!?) Marantz AV8801 - any idea WHEN that Marantz is coming out?
(Looks like the AV7701 won't have XT32...).

The iPod is capable enough to feed CD quality to a DAC. The Pure i20 dock is about the cheapest way to do that @ 80 euros. Simply choose Apple Lossless, AIFF or WAV to rip CD's. And don't choose the "use 128 AAC for syncronizing with iPod" option. There's the 256 AAC option also, which is surprisingly close to the original CD. But I sinc as is, older rips are ALAC, newer are AIFF. But I use the iPod very seldomly. It's no good if you got 4800 albums and want to enjoy 24/96 etc.

But sure, nothing beats 24/96 with Amarra's equalizer set to the proper genre. Rock sounds more Rock, Jazz more Jazz etc.

The AV8801 should arrive near the year end. MSRP is 3,300 euros.

[jamrock]

I was never in doubt that you'd be satisfied with the XPR-5. I'm glad that you bolstered my confidence. Thanx for the review. Enjoy the Music ;D

[The Mad Norseman]

Aug 17, 2012 15:13:16 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Aug 16, 2012 18:01:26 GMT -5 The Mad Norseman said:

Thanks Erwin - a great initial write up!

It should sound even so much better when you feed it with something other than the iPod, or an external DAC.
Looking forward to some further reports when you lay in some more source equipment, and especially when its hooked into your new HT!

I'm hoping to pair the XPR-5 with the (someday coming!?) Marantz AV8801 - any idea WHEN that Marantz is coming out?
(Looks like the AV7701 won't have XT32...).

The iPod is capable enough to feed CD quality to a DAC. The Pure i20 dock is about the cheapest way to do that @ 80 euros. Simply choose Apple Lossless, AIFF or WAV to rip CD's. And don't choose the "use 128 AAC for syncronizing with iPod" option. There's the 256 AAC option also, which is surprisingly close to the original CD. But I sinc as is, older rips are ALAC, newer are AIFF. But I use the iPod very seldomly. It's no good if you got 4800 albums and want to enjoy 24/96 etc.

But sure, nothing beats 24/96 with Amarra's equalizer set to the proper genre. Rock sounds more Rock, Jazz more Jazz etc.

The AV8801 should arrive near the year end. MSRP is 3,300 euros.

Thanks for the clarification Erwin!
But as to the AV8801, 3300 Euros?, really!!??
What's that come out to in $$$?
3300 x $1.30 (or so) = $4,290?
Way Too rich for MY blood!
(Might have to go for a AV7701 instead...).

[Erwin.BE]

Aug 17, 2012 18:54:23 GMT -5 The Mad Norseman said:

Aug 17, 2012 15:13:16 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

The iPod is capable enough to feed CD quality to a DAC. The Pure i20 dock is about the cheapest way to do that @ 80 euros. Simply choose Apple Lossless, AIFF or WAV to rip CD's. And don't choose the "use 128 AAC for syncronizing with iPod" option. There's the 256 AAC option also, which is surprisingly close to the original CD. But I sinc as is, older rips are ALAC, newer are AIFF. But I use the iPod very seldomly. It's no good if you got 4800 albums and want to enjoy 24/96 etc.

But sure, nothing beats 24/96 with Amarra's equalizer set to the proper genre. Rock sounds more Rock, Jazz more Jazz etc.

The AV8801 should arrive near the year end. MSRP is 3,300 euros.

Thanks for the clarification Erwin!
But as to the AV8801, 3300 Euros?, really!!??
What's that come out to in $$$?
3300 x $1.30 (or so) = $4,290?
Way Too rich for MY blood!
(Might have to go for a AV7701 instead...).

I saw online shops already stating a 2,999 euro price. (item not in stock, arriving within x weeks). My local Marantz dealer always gives me 10% also on everything I buy.

But do not simply do the euro/dollar conversion to know the USA price. Perhaps (guessing) you could purchase one for $3,000. Overhead costs in EU are far greater than in USA. And I know BMW's made in Germany (not even talking about Z4 and X5 then, these are made in Carolina) are cheaper in USA than in EU... Just charge what the fool will pay is the motto!

Marantz 8xxx and 9xxx series were always expensive. I believe the AV7005 is usualy sold for the same nominal amount in euro or USD (1,500).

[Erwin.BE]

No attachment possible in this thread, but I uploaded some pics here:

emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ht&thread=10224&page=3#430104

[Erwin.BE]

Spent more time listening to the stereo from the Mac mini (Amarra) via the Weiss DAC2. Both with and without the Rothwell XLR attenuators attached to the XPR-5 inputs. Maybe I am imagining things, but I think I prefer WITH the attenuators. This way, there's 10dB of passive (resistive) analogue attenuation and hence 10dB less of digital attenuation from the Weiss DAC2 itself. More listening is needed! Bass seems a bit more rounded and deeper. Not sure about the highs.

But both ways are potentially inferior to using a passive magnetic way to attenuate. Magnetics convert high voltages / low current into lower voltage / higher current thus preserving all of the resolution. A passive resistive attenuator (such as the Rothwells) "choke" the voltage and turn it into heat.

I never heard such a magnetic pre-amp though:
www.stereoknight.com/silverstone%20passive%20preamp.html

[Erwin.BE]

As reported earlier, I had this issue with the XPA-1 set: The Amarra software makes the Weiss DAC2 throw a loud (volume dependent) "spike" to the XPA's + speakers whenever the sample frequency rate is changed to be the same as the track. It has done this all the time, but gets more annoying because I got more and more High Resolution music, hence more changing and thus spike-spitting is occuring. And one of the XPA's (the right channel one) is very much making clear it don't like it, since it went to safety mode (red LED) three times recently (after the peak). It starts up immediately when I push the power button though.

To my surprise, this switching spike is a lot less audible with the XPR-5! It's still there, but not half as loud.

Anyone know a remedy for this and why it is so much less with the XPR-5?

[Entity]

To my surprise, this switching spike is a lot less audible with the XPR-5! It's still there, but not half as loud.

Possibly the lower gain of the XPR-5?

[garbulky]

It may have to do with the software in the hardware that is sending the signal... or the xda-1 itself.

[The Mad Norseman]

Aug 18, 2012 5:08:43 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Aug 17, 2012 18:54:23 GMT -5 The Mad Norseman said:

Thanks for the clarification Erwin!
But as to the AV8801, 3300 Euros?, really!!??
What's that come out to in $$$?
3300 x $1.30 (or so) = $4,290?
Way Too rich for MY blood!
(Might have to go for a AV7701 instead...).

I saw online shops already stating a 2,999 euro price. (item not in stock, arriving within x weeks). My local Marantz dealer always gives me 10% also on everything I buy.

But do not simply do the euro/dollar conversion to know the USA price. Perhaps (guessing) you could purchase one for $3,000. Overhead costs in EU are far greater than in USA. And I know BMW's made in Germany (not even talking about Z4 and X5 then, these are made in Carolina) are cheaper in USA than in EU... Just charge what the fool will pay is the motto!

Marantz 8xxx and 9xxx series were always expensive. I believe the AV7005 is usualy sold for the same nominal amount in euro or USD (1,500).

The conversion rate here right now is about $1.24 to the Euro, but I'm also finding pre-release pricing at $2,800 quoted for the upcoming Marantz AV8801, so suspect that will be the price in the U.S. - fortunately!

[Erwin.BE]

Aug 18, 2012 10:04:49 GMT -5 garbulky said:

It may have to do with the software in the hardware that is sending the signal... or the xda-1 itself.

It's not twith the XDA. It's with the Mac/Amarra/Weiss set. It must be the synergy between Weiss DAC2 and XPA-1.

The lesser gain of the XPR-5 (29 dB vs 32 dB of the XPA) is also my guess why the XPR-5 remains more "calm" with the peaks of the Weiss.

[Erwin.BE]

Unfortunately, the misses gave me the ever longer face and the evil eye because of "thàt big box" still sitting on "her" living room table. So it's the end of the test period for now. Wait until she finds out about the price... Me mentioning it will last decades while her nails and hair need monthly maintenance will not help at all.

I listened for a lot of the time, since it was very warm the last few days and we only have airco in the living room, where the testing facilities were ;D

The Rothwell XLR inline passive attenuators were in place since I tried them on. They made the XLR pump 10 dB more using it's own limitless power. So bass heavy music at louder volume did make the LED's dance up to level 3 or 4. Neat! What the attenuators do IMO is enhance the bass a bit, but maybe reduce the highs a little bit. All in all, I liked the result.

The XPR-5 also does not produce the very faint transformator hum that my XPA-1's have during the first minute or so when not playing music. Maybe another nice side effect of the "normal" 29 dB gain vs the XPA's 32 dB.

An amp with the resolving power of the XPR-5 will be brutally honoust about the quality of the recording of the music. As long as you hook up matching speakers ofcourse. As always, the electronics only play a secundary role in the music reproduction. Next to the recording and the speakers, also the room is very important as it interacts with the speakers. Our current house (as our new build) is made of wood. Walls are single layer drywall with some rock wool in between. Floor is Oak all around. The right Jamo is very close to a brickwall that envelops the fireplace. That's not ideal but it's only until the new house is done where the Jamo's will get a very big space to fill. The XPR-5 will be used in the multifunctional HT, which is also large being 5,000 cubic feet.

What an amp like the XPR-5 does is assure you that all that could be done amp-wise is fullfilled. The power and the control are sky high and very expensive speakers will benefit from the quality. We were watching a "Later with Jools" broadcast on ZDF (German) from our sat tonight. For those who do not know it: it's a weekly show from BBC with cherry picked artists of various pop-rock-soul-world-jazz-blues genres each do a few tracks live and each in turn. Bjork performed a song "Cosmogony" from her album Biophilia. It starts with very low frequency electronics. This was on the B&W 5.1 in my sig. The sub made itself very noticable. After this, I turned to the XPR-5 + Jamo set since I have another life version of this album (ie, "Biophilia live") in 16/44 AIFF on the attached Mac. I opened the volume, but the bass was much more in control, despite the music being a lot louder. On the B&W 5.1, powered by a Yamaha AVR, the sound quality was good, very good, except for the to heavy lows. But when played on the reference set, a whole other level was reached! reminded me of the time (2010?) we went to a Grace Jones gig indoor. It was extremely loud en somewhat distorted and not always enjoyable because of that. While the CD sounded very good at home.

I am convinced the XPR-5 will sound the same as the XPA-1 in all real world circumstances. If I ever need to replace the XPA-1's (can't think why though), I would get the XPR-2.

Since I am a firm believer (unlike Dan Laufman) in more + better speakers = better movie experience, I will probably get the upcoming 11.2 Marantz AV8801 pre-pro for the XPR-5. The other amps might very well be three humble but honoustly powered UPA-200. There are exciting multi-surround formats being developed behind the horizon, like Auro-3D and Dolby Atmos. Bring them on!!


To finish, I want to point to a sobering article focussing on the aspects of 24/192 music. These people seem the ones behind the Vorbis audio codec, so not 100% unbiassed. Learnsome nonetheless:
people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
In the end, the author is mentioning "Ambisonics". I never heard of it, but it's smart Brittish surround system dating from 1972 or so. With Height! What's new, huh?

[Erwin.BE]

I am sure my mind is playing tricks on me, but I sure miss the XPR-5 in my Jamo set-up already. It is waiting on a shelf, with a box from the Maelstrom subwoofer covering it (since XPR-5 box got wasted in transit) untill I finsish the HT. Must get on with it!

[Erwin.BE]

I created a flickr® account. These are unresized pictures.













Edit: it doesn't work... help! I used the button and inserted the url from the pic in between What did I do wrong?

[Deleted]

Do you have a slash before the last img?


Like this: /img

Aug 26, 2012 4:30:57 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

I created a flickr® account. These are unresized pictures.













Edit: it doesn't work... help! I used the button and inserted the url from the pic in between What did I do wrong?