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Post by AudioHTIT on May 2, 2013 22:35:19 GMT -5
More detailed measurements DR, nice job, it really helps people understand the Class A environment. When I was a kid my dad used the hippopotamus scale. He'd hold his hand over the barbecue and count; 1 hippopotamus, 2 hippopotamus, 3 hippopotamus ... etc, when he had to pull his hand away that was the reading. I think he'd throw the meat on when it reached 5 hippopotamus. We'll need those centigrade numbers converted to hippos before your report is complete.  |
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Post by deltadube on May 2, 2013 22:58:36 GMT -5
Love the pics! Glad to hear people are getting back functioning units. Even at reference volumes, my XPA-3 and UPA-7 feel slightly warm. I imagine the A/B mode would be about the same. Does the Class A mode really add that much heat to be called a toaster? The UMC-1 used to be the warmest component in my rack. The 1L took that crown. ;D Here are some quick measurements I took with a non-contact infrared thermometer tonight. Ambient: 77 F (25 C) UPA-500 top chassis cover: 82 F (27.8 C) XPA-200 top chassis cover: 87 F (30.6 C) UMC-1 top chassis cover: 100 F (37.8 C) Class A/B modeXPA-1L top chassis cover: 116 F (46.7 C) - measured on the smooth metal part between the two heatsink vents XPA-1L top chassis cover: 118 F (47.8 C) - measured on the two heatsink vent strips Class A modeXPA-1L top chassis cover: 137 F (58.3 C) - measured on the smooth metal part between the two heatsink vents XPA-1L top chassis cover: 149 F (65.0 C) - measured on the two heatsink vent strips The amp has about 4 inches of clearance above it, and then there's a shelf. However, all four sides allow adequate breathing room. The shelf supporting the 1L is also warm to the touch from the exhaust vents underneath the amplifier. When the amp is running full-bore in Class A, it's very uncomfortable to keep my hand on top of the chassis cover for more than five seconds. Is it dangerously hot? No, definitely not. In fact, I've sometimes seen the amperage meter drop a few tenths during idle. I suspect that is the thermal monitoring system gently throttling back the Class A threshold to control temps. Is the 1L a real toaster? Nah, but it's definitely the hottest thing in my rack. I'm hoping the Sherbourn C-12 (delivering Monday!) will be able to dump the majority of that heat out the back. Heat is one of the worst enemies for electronics. I'd like to ensure the 1L runs as cool as possible to ensure maximum performance and longevity. great report DR... one thing you didnt mention was how long you had been running the equipment for ... i am assuming that is not stand by mode.. yikes! a class amp sound will warm the igloo up a little on a cold winter night eh... nice benifit.. not so much for the hot summer.. cheers.. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 23:06:03 GMT -5
Horses for course, my good man! Use the XPA-1Ls during the winter and then snag some cool-running Class D amps for those summertime blues.
-RW- Me? I'm not that fussy, the XPA-5 is doing great work for me...
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Post by Chuck Elliot on May 2, 2013 23:07:23 GMT -5
Are there vent holes on the bottom of the chassis?
I'm thinking about a pair of these and I need to figure out cooling.
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 2, 2013 23:17:48 GMT -5
Are there vent holes on the bottom of the chassis? I'm thinking about a pair of these and I need to figure out cooling. Yep, there are two rows of vents on the underside. Here's a pic from my review thread started earlier (which I will eventually return to  ). For reference, you're looking at the right side of the amp from the underneath. The venting rows are basically under the heatsinks. The left-side vent is almost the center line (just a bit to the right of the Emotiva power button).  |
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 2, 2013 23:28:59 GMT -5
More detailed measurements DR, nice job, it really helps people understand the Class A environment. When I was a kid my dad used the hippopotamus scale. He'd hold his hand over the barbecue and count; 1 hippopotamus, 2 hippopotamus, 3 hippopotamus ... etc, when he had to pull his hand away that was the reading. I think he'd throw the meat on when it reached 5 hippopotamus. We'll need those centigrade numbers converted to hippos before your report is complete. Ha! Now that's a purely scientific and precise way to measure if I ever heard one. ;D I'll get back to you on that hippo scale soon. The other conversion units I'm trying to nail down include Libraries of Congress, Calls made with a Banana Phone, and Buckets of NYC sewer rats. one thing you didnt mention was how long you had been running the equipment for ... i am assuming that is not stand by mode.. yikes! a class amp sound will warm the igloo up a little on a cold winter night eh... nice benifit.. not so much for the hot summer.. The equipment was basically idling (not standby), but I had it on since about 4 PM. Music was playing very low (around 60 dB at 0.5 meters) since I was still working and doing some research on a project. It was not pushing much at all. Since the test, however, I've been pushing the dBs.  For the Class A/B test, I let the amp cool down for over an hour before taking that measurement. Yes, a pair or trio of 1Ls could definitely heat up the igloo. Horses for course, my good man! Use the XPA-1Ls during the winter and then snag some cool-running Class D amps for those summertime blues. -RW- Me? I'm not that fussy, the XPA-5 is doing great work for me... One of the great things I love about the 1L is the selectable Class A-A/B switch. I can keep it in A/B mode if necessary during the really hot days and it'll still sound darn good. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 0:22:28 GMT -5
Beaucoup kudos to Dark Ranger for many extremely informative and very detailed posts and reviews. Great job!
He is a most valued Lizard here at the Emotiva Lounge!
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Post by eclypse on May 3, 2013 0:42:46 GMT -5
Makes one wonder what would happen if someone water cooled those puppies to keep them cool. Would one get more wattage in class A or is that not heat sensitive when it switches into A/B?
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 3, 2013 1:25:35 GMT -5
Aw, shucks. Thanks for the kind words, Chuck. I've learned many things here, so I want to reciprocate and keep the karma balanced. ;D Makes one wonder what would happen if someone water cooled those puppies to keep them cool. Would one get more wattage in class A or is that not heat sensitive when it switches into A/B? That would be quite a mod! It would probably require a new chassis design to accommodate an internal cooling system. I've always been a bit skittish of water cooling systems around electronics, but they are effective. I'm not quite sure I understand your last question. By water-cooling a CPU for example, one can often overclock the processor well past manufacture specs. With amps, I think it's a little different. The XPA-1L is designed to put out 35 watts Class A. Even with a robust cooling system, the amp would still put out 35 watts although it would run much cooler. It would have to be designed from the git-go to do more Class A with support from the cooling system. In theory, if Emotiva could "reengineer" the XPA-1L with a water-cooling system, then yeah, they could probably push it to 50, 60, or 70 watts Class A. That's a whole 'nother ball game, though. The size and price would take a nice hike North. With Class A designs, it's about heat management and dissipation. Removing more heat from an amp will allow more Class A power. Check out the XA series amplifiers from Pass Labs. They're big and heavy with TONS of heatsink area. With the XPA-1L, it can handle up to 35 watts in Class A. If more than 35 watts is needed, it will automatically switch to A/B mode (unlike most regular Class A amps). It will also switch to A/B mode if the temp gets extremely high. This amp is really sweet. I don't know how Lonnie did it, but he did. I mean, come on...a fully-balanced, low-profile amplifier that doesn't break your back to move it around. Yet, it still does 35 watts Class A and automatically switches to A/B to deliver full rated power of 250/500 watts into 8/4 ohms. Oh, and it has a selectable low/high bias switch. And it's like really cheap!! ;D ;D Well, cosmic wrinkles! I'm gettin' all excited again. |
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Post by Gary Cook on May 3, 2013 1:53:33 GMT -5
I've always been a bit skittish of water cooling systems around electronics, but they are effective. Chicken, Nissan race cars in the late 80's had their ECU's cooled by fuel  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 3:02:01 GMT -5
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 3, 2013 4:59:34 GMT -5
Ah...Peltier Cell cooling...that would be "cool"...pardon the pun.
Seriously - glad the 1L is working out!
Mark
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 5:29:50 GMT -5
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Post by eclypse on May 3, 2013 9:23:11 GMT -5
Pass labs.. yeah about 23K short! haha
I think I've read that the XPA-1 does higher in Class A in another thread is that correct?
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Post by geebo on May 3, 2013 9:30:03 GMT -5
Pass labs.. yeah about 23K short! haha I think I've read that the XPA-1 does higher in Class A in another thread is that correct? Nope. That is incorrect. IIRC, it may be as high as 10 but nowhere near 35. |
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Post by sergeantynot on May 3, 2013 11:27:54 GMT -5
Love the pics! Glad to hear people are getting back functioning units. Even at reference volumes, my XPA-3 and UPA-7 feel slightly warm. I imagine the A/B mode would be about the same. Does the Class A mode really add that much heat to be called a toaster? The UMC-1 used to be the warmest component in my rack. The 1L took that crown. ;D Here are some quick measurements I took with a non-contact infrared thermometer tonight. Ambient: 77 F (25 C) UPA-500 top chassis cover: 82 F (27.8 C) XPA-200 top chassis cover: 87 F (30.6 C) UMC-1 top chassis cover: 100 F (37.8 C) Class A/B modeXPA-1L top chassis cover: 116 F (46.7 C) - measured on the smooth metal part between the two heatsink vents XPA-1L top chassis cover: 118 F (47.8 C) - measured on the two heatsink vent strips Class A modeXPA-1L top chassis cover: 137 F (58.3 C) - measured on the smooth metal part between the two heatsink vents XPA-1L top chassis cover: 149 F (65.0 C) - measured on the two heatsink vent strips The amp has about 4 inches of clearance above it, and then there's a shelf. However, all four sides allow adequate breathing room. The shelf supporting the 1L is also warm to the touch from the exhaust vents underneath the amplifier. When the amp is running full-bore in Class A, it's very uncomfortable to keep my hand on top of the chassis cover for more than five seconds. Is it dangerously hot? No, definitely not. In fact, I've sometimes seen the amperage meter drop a few tenths during idle. I suspect that is the thermal monitoring system gently throttling back the Class A threshold to control temps. Is the 1L a real toaster? Nah, but it's definitely the hottest thing in my rack. I'm hoping the Sherbourn C-12 (delivering Monday!) will be able to dump the majority of that heat out the back. Heat is one of the worst enemies for electronics. I'd like to ensure the 1L runs as cool as possible to ensure maximum performance and longevity. Very detailed specs! So even in Class A/B mode, they still run warmer by about 20 degrees than the other UPA/XPA gear that you have. Let me ask you this, do you think a 3 inch clearance would be sufficient cooling space? I currently have an open air design rack with several inches of space on all sides. Both racks have an Emo amp that I would like to stack the 1L on. Also, I see in the pic of the bottom that it shows the feet. What is the exact height of the unit? |
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Post by GreenKiwi on May 3, 2013 12:33:35 GMT -5
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Post by Lonnie on May 3, 2013 13:48:22 GMT -5
I am thrilled to hear all the great comments!
I am also very happy that you guys are enjoying it as much as I do.
What can I say other than, Enjoy! ;D
Lonnie
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Post by sheepdog02 on May 3, 2013 14:17:10 GMT -5
Good news...got the new XPA-1Ls in and the noise problems I had with the first set, and then the 2nd set are gone. It appears to me the grounding fix by Emotiva has cured the issue I had experienced previously. So happy to finally be able to sit back and just enjoy listening to the wonderful sound that they produce. Couldn't be happier.
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Post by garbulky on May 3, 2013 14:20:14 GMT -5
Submerging in oil sounds really cool and I assume workable but I would be very very scared! I heard Jiffy Lube doesn't do oil changes on XPA-1 L's.
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