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Post by tweed on May 5, 2013 9:06:43 GMT -5
I'll second that. This has been some real good info. on the XPA-1-L!
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Post by sergeantynot on May 6, 2013 9:09:10 GMT -5
^ Sounds like that Emo baseball cap might have not been enough for all the valuable info DR has provided.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 12:12:50 GMT -5
I nominate Dark Ranger for Lounge Lizard of the Month! +1.. |
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Post by tapornap113 on May 7, 2013 15:59:04 GMT -5
Ok, so my question is how do you know if the amplifier is in "A" or "A/B" mode? Is there an audible click or tell tale sign when it makes the switch? Sorry if this has been covered, but I read back quite a ways, with no luck.
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 7, 2013 20:54:14 GMT -5
Ok, so my question is how do you know if the amplifier is in "A" or "A/B" mode? Is there an audible click or tell tale sign when it makes the switch? Sorry if this has been covered, but I read back quite a ways, with no luck. The product page states that the 1L transitions seamlessly from Class A to A/B mode as needed. It's handled internally without any visual feedback (e.g. mode LEDs). I haven't pushed the amp really, really hard yet, but so far there has been no "click" or other indication that I've switched over to A/B mode (based on signal level, not thermal limits). For what it's worth, the manual switching between Class A and A/B mode (using the front selector switch) is completely inaudible. I do not hear any clicks, thunks, or other noises inside the amp that indicate it's switched modes. I'm 99% sure the automatic transition from A to A/B mode (above 35 watts) is inaudible. In my opinion, it would be an annoyance if one heard a click every time it transitioned between modes. I really doubt Emotiva would accept that, let alone their customers. Truthfully, 35 watts is a decent amount of power. Based on my listening habits, my small room, and the speaker's efficiency, I doubt I'll ever get out of Class A mode except for very occasional peaks. If you desire official confirmation, give Emotiva a call and ask for Lonnie.  |
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Post by richardrc on May 7, 2013 22:12:20 GMT -5
Looking forward to the updated AP test data on these babies!!!!
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Post by Dark Ranger on May 7, 2013 22:35:10 GMT -5
Same here. I check every day. ;D
My guess is an improved SNR spec. Something has to explain the fruitier mid-range, the crunchable and tasty treble response (my dog swears it sounds better), or perhaps the capacitors just carry 10% more dark chocolate than before.
Hey DR! Get back here and take your meds! Nurse Ratched will be furious.
Sorry guys, I gotta go.
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Post by eclypse on May 8, 2013 1:00:25 GMT -5
How low can the XPA-1L go in 2ohms? Also what about the XPA-1?
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 8, 2013 1:03:22 GMT -5
How low can the XPA-1L go in 2ohms? Also what about the XPA-1? At least 20 Hz. We'll find out when they post the data how low the amp will go. If they don't post it, you can always call and ask Lonnie. Just curious; what speaker will you be using that runs a 2 ohm load nominal? |
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Post by eclypse on May 8, 2013 1:40:05 GMT -5
Just wondering cause I've heard that the XPR-1 can go as low as 2ohms.
I'm just running some Polk Audio LSiMs that run at 8ohms but I've read that they can dip as low as 3ohms at times.
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Post by Gary Cook on May 8, 2013 2:51:26 GMT -5
Ok, so my question is how do you know if the amplifier is in "A" or "A/B" mode? Is there an audible click or tell tale sign when it makes the switch? Sorry if this has been covered, but I read back quite a ways, with no luck. The product page states that the 1L transitions seamlessly from Class A to A/B mode as needed. It's handled internally without any visual feedback (e.g. mode LEDs). I haven't pushed the amp really, really hard yet, but so far there has been no "click" or other indication that I've switched over to A/B mode (based on signal level, not thermal limits). For what it's worth, the manual switching between Class A and A/B mode (using the front selector switch) is completely inaudible. I do not hear any clicks, thunks, or other noises inside the amp that indicate it's switched modes. I'm 99% sure the automatic transition from A to A/B mode (above 35 watts) is inaudible. In my opinion, it would be an annoyance if one heard a click every time it transitioned between modes. I really doubt Emotiva would accept that, let alone their customers. Truthfully, 35 watts is a decent amount of power. Based on my listening habits, my small room, and the speaker's efficiency, I doubt I'll ever get out of Class A mode except for very occasional peaks. If you desire official confirmation, give Emotiva a call and ask for Lonnie. If I end up getting a pair of XPA-1L's (it's very tempting) then I'm sure it will stay in Class A for music, 35 watts is plenty based on my previous experience with 25 watts of Class A. Then I'll manually switch it over to Class A/B for movies. Where the 250 watts should match the XPA-5 just nicely. All I need is somewhere to put the extra 2 speakers, plus the extra 2 speakers themselves of course. Cheers Gary |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on May 8, 2013 3:58:09 GMT -5
Looking forward to the updated AP test data on these babies!!!! Sorry for the delay guys. I am currently in Germany and want to run the test myself, so I will get it posted upon my return. Lonnie |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on May 8, 2013 4:01:20 GMT -5
How low they go depends on what you are talking about. Frequency wise they will go down to 10hz with no problems. Impedance wise, a dip down to 2 ohms is also no problem but I wouldn't recommend running them at 2 ohms continuously.
Lonnie
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Post by ocezam on May 8, 2013 8:34:46 GMT -5
The product page states that the 1L transitions seamlessly from Class A to A/B mode as needed. so far there has been no "click" or other indication that I've switched over to A/B mode Of course there is no click. All A/B amps idle in class A. At some point after the music starts they swing into class A/B. If there were a click at that point, ALL amps would do it, and class A/B wouldn't be a very good amp design. Nor very popular. If I end up getting a pair of XPA-1L's (it's very tempting) then I'm sure it will stay in Class A for music, 35 watts is plenty based on my previous experience with 25 watts of Class A. Cheers Gary The problem though is the "automatic throttleback" of class A as the amps heat up. With the incredible heat being reported, how can you be sure the amp hasn't throttled down to a lesser class A power rating? ... |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 8, 2013 12:03:44 GMT -5
Just wondering cause I've heard that the XPR-1 can go as low as 2ohms. I'm just running some Polk Audio LSiMs that run at 8ohms but I've read that they can dip as low as 3ohms at times. My L/R speakers dip to 2.6 ohm at frequencies below 180 Hz. Emotiva amps (and I'm srue the XPA-1L would be no different) have no problem driving bass heavy tracks, full-range on my speakers. |
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Post by eclypse on May 8, 2013 12:13:28 GMT -5
Good to know thanks!
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Post by kellys on May 8, 2013 13:05:31 GMT -5
The problem though is the "automatic throttleback" of class A as the amps heat up. With the incredible heat being reported, how can you be sure the amp hasn't throttled down to a lesser class A power rating? ... Being that this was what the amp was designed for, I am not sure why you would be worried about this. Provide the amp adequate ventilation and reasonable ambient temperatures and you should be able to achieve the specified class A operation. My understanding is that if you start pushing the amp above 35 W it will lower the bias current to maintain the desired operating temperatures. Remember that the operation in Class A/B mode is more efficient so less heat would be generated. With this amp in class A mode it is likely that idle to full load power dissipation is going to be fairly consistent, there will not be a big variation like with other Emo amps (I can't remember if DR posted these results). Power dissipation is what will create the heat and cause the amp to lower its bias accordingly. |
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Post by ocezam on May 8, 2013 13:29:14 GMT -5
The problem though is the "automatic throttleback" of class A as the amps heat up. With the incredible heat being reported, how can you be sure the amp hasn't throttled down to a lesser class A power rating? Being that this was what the amp was designed for, I am not sure why you would be worried about this. Provide the amp adequate ventilation and reasonable ambient temperatures and you should be able to achieve the specified class A operation. I'm certainly not worried about it, curious though. It all depends on what actual temps the amp is slipping in and out of class A at. If I had kept these amps, I would have kept track of this with my ammeter. .. |
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Post by KeithL on May 8, 2013 14:20:34 GMT -5
All true.... ALL Class A/B amps operate in Class A at very low power levels; that's what "Class A/B" means. ALL Class A/B amplifiers "transition" between Class A and Class A/B modes at some point; it's just that most of them transition at very low power levels, while the XPA-1L (in Class A mode) "stays on the Class A side of the line" more of the time. First, I would like to clarify the quote about "the first 10 watts being in Class A on the XPA-1" (from Lonnie) that I keep seeing repeated ad nauseum... I am seeing far too much stress being placed on that number... which is, after all, only a general description about how the XPA-1 typically operates (the actual number will vary slightly depending on room temperature and how warmed up the XPA-1 is when you measure it, which is why it isn't included in the actual specifications). In context, Lonnie was saying that the XPA-1 runs relatively high-bias for a Class A/B amp, which is one reason why it sounds so good. Everybody is losing sight of the real point here, which is that when you listen to music at "typical listening levels" with "typical speakers", the XPA-1L (in Class A mode) will be operating in Class A all or most of the time, while the XPA-1 (or the XPA-1L in Class A/B mode) will not. As for heat: I am at a complete loss about the comment about "incredible heat being reported". The XPA-1L doesn't run THAT hot. In Class A mode it IDLES a lot warmer than it would in Class A/B mode, but at full power it only dissipates slightly more heat in Class A mode. It's got plenty of heat sinks to keep in nice and comfortable at full power. The units we tested (after we fixed the little software glitch) didn't switch out of Class A mode after idling for a full day, at which time they were just pleasantly warm; it took several hours for one to heat up enough to do a "forced fallback" even with the vents deliberately blocked... and, even then, it wasn't too hot to touch. [DO NOT try that one at home, folks  ] Finally, I'll finish this post with a sort of Zen parable. Someone asked: "If the XPA-1L doesn't have an indicator, then how would I know if it switches back to Class A/B mode?" My reply is: "If you can't hear the difference, then why are you worrying about it at all?" The product page states that the 1L transitions seamlessly from Class A to A/B mode as needed. so far there has been no "click" or other indication that I've switched over to A/B mode Of course there is no click. All A/B amps idle in class A. At some point after the music starts they swing into class A/B. If there were a click at that point, ALL amps would do it, and class A/B wouldn't be a very good amp design. Nor very popular. If I end up getting a pair of XPA-1L's (it's very tempting) then I'm sure it will stay in Class A for music, 35 watts is plenty based on my previous experience with 25 watts of Class A. Cheers Gary The problem though is the "automatic throttleback" of class A as the amps heat up. With the incredible heat being reported, how can you be sure the amp hasn't throttled down to a lesser class A power rating? ... |
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Post by geebo on May 8, 2013 14:29:47 GMT -5
Someone asked: "If the XPA-1L doesn't have an indicator, then how would I know if it switches back to Class A/B mode?" My reply is: "If you can't hear the difference, then why are you worrying about it at all?" Touche' |
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