jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 2, 2012 7:47:21 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 9:36:42 GMT -5
Jam,
I knew you would start the -15 thread, it was just a matter of time ;D
Sounds very interesting. I'm sure we will get more info later this year.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 2, 2012 9:44:58 GMT -5
I am looking forward to the stand-alone amplifier.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Sept 2, 2012 9:49:29 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open Less weight. Depending on the amp's capabilities you can hook up more than one sub to it; which would be a cost save not having to buy an amp every time you buy a sub. You don't have to design the enclosure to deal with the amp (sonic benefits, maybe).
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Post by rclark on Sept 2, 2012 10:14:04 GMT -5
According to reports from Emofest 2012, the release of the X/REF-15 is imminent. However, it will not be self-powered like the X/REF-12s. It will be a passive sub. Emo has built a sub amp specifically for use with the X/REF-15. While there are no specs posted as yet, is there any performance advantage for using external amps with a sub? I was hoping for it to be an active sub as I don't have space for additional amps and I don't like to have my electronics out in the open Less weight. Depending on the amp's capabilities you can hook up more than one sub to it; which would be a cost save not having to buy an amp every time you buy a sub. You don't have to design the enclosure to deal with the amp (sonic benefits, maybe). ... not so sure a light in weight 15 is a good thing.
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Post by wizardofoz on Sept 2, 2012 11:19:00 GMT -5
Well at least the electronics won't get shaken to bits...I have dead sunfire sub as the plate amp is also one whole side of the sub you an bet it all gets a beating. I'm thinking of replacing the internals with an external amp.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 2, 2012 17:17:10 GMT -5
Jam, I knew you would start the -15 thread, it was just a matter of time ;D Sounds very interesting. I'm sure we will get more info later this year. I couldn't resist. I'm sorry. I've been waiting quite a long time for this bit of news. I did a survey of my components space and realized that I might have some available space. But that will depend on the size of the sub amps (If I go this route, each sub must have it's own dedicated amp. No sharing). I'm too aggressive with bass for me to do it otherwise ;D I look forward to getting additional info such as whether or not the amp has DSP built in, class type and of course, the SPECS ;D
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traider79
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Post by traider79 on Sept 2, 2012 18:04:53 GMT -5
I think this is a great idea. It might take up more rack space but can be a better amp. Like others said it will take Less of a beating not being in with the sub. I already am thinking where a pair of these monsters will go.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 3, 2012 8:29:33 GMT -5
I hope that Emotiva does not take the Big Box route like some other "audiophile manufacturers" I much prefer the smaller subs with powerful amps. I don't care if it is a sealed or ported design just as long as as it is flat below 20Hz. Also, Ms jamrock hates subs, and the bigger the more. It won't deter me getting them, but it will reduce the acrimony.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 4, 2012 2:26:07 GMT -5
Well at least the electronics won't get shaken to bits...I have dead sunfire sub as the plate amp is also one whole side of the sub you an bet it all gets a beating. I'm thinking of replacing the internals with an external amp. That's for sure! I had to replace several capacitors in the plate amp in one of my subs, the manufacturer had to put so much "goop" on the components to keep them from rattling that it was a pain to repair - that is, getting the goop off was much harder than removing and resoldering the caps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 6:59:52 GMT -5
I hope that Emotiva does not take the Big Box route like some other "audiophile manufacturers" I much prefer the smaller subs with powerful amps. I don't care if it is a sealed or ported design just as long as as it is flat below 20Hz. Also, Ms jamrock hates subs, and the bigger the more. It won't deter me getting them, but it will reduce the acrimony. A small sub that goes flat below 20Hz is not in the physics of subwoofers in the price range that most of us mortals can afford, regardless of how powerful the amp is and what Bob carver wants you all to think. Maybe you can find one flat at low volume but not for HT reference output. For flat in the 15-20Hz range at high output you have to buy a man size sub Mr. Rock. Tell Mrs Jamrock that in subs size counts! ;D
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 4, 2012 7:35:19 GMT -5
I hope that Emotiva does not take the Big Box route like some other "audiophile manufacturers" I much prefer the smaller subs with powerful amps. I don't care if it is a sealed or ported design just as long as as it is flat below 20Hz. Also, Ms jamrock hates subs, and the bigger the more. It won't deter me getting them, but it will reduce the acrimony. A small sub that goes flat below 20Hz is not in the physics of subwoofers in the price range that most of us mortals can afford, regardless of how powerful the amp is and what Bob carver wants you all to think. Maybe you can find one flat at low volume but not for HT reference output. For flat in the 15-20Hz range at high output you have to buy a man size sub Mr. Rock. Tell Mrs Jamrock that in subs size counts! ;D I guess it really depends on ones definition of small but I find myself agreeing with Chuck's thoughts on the limitations/role that physics plays here. Besides how small can a sub really be with a 15in driver? Hopefully an X-Ref 15 will have Mrs. Jamrock's WAF.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 10:45:25 GMT -5
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Post by ansat on Sept 4, 2012 10:50:55 GMT -5
According to Lonnie the amp will be a 2x 500 at 4. Bridgable. It will have dsp hpf and lpf. 2Ru and be flat till 5hz.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 4, 2012 11:59:29 GMT -5
Those look kinda interesting...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 13:56:52 GMT -5
"Flat" ;D ;D ;D
Sound&Vision magazine reviewed the Bag End PD12E-1. It had very loud upper bass output. It maxed out at 80 Hz and 121.1 db with very low THD. Maximum output was above 120 db from 63 to 80 Hz.
Here's what Bag End doesn't emphasize. It averaged only 92 db from 20 to 40 Hz. Response extended to 18 Hz but no where near the upper response. Distortion headed for the stars below 30Hz. Typical of a PA, ProSound sub.
Flat? ;D ;D ;D
Bag End uses EQ (INFRA-M Integrator) to extend down to 8Hz, more than 35db's if my memory is accurate. Maybe Dr. Bose did some contract work for them.
Don't be fooled folks. The Bag end subs (including their little wimpy sized subs) are fine for high output for music sources but not high output with low distortion for HT applications as are real man sized subs from the likes of SVS, HSU and Rythmik below 30Hz and especially below 20Hz.
That's all folks for this thread. Now back to my nurses duties. (I just needed a quick break).
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 14:11:25 GMT -5
A small sub that goes flat below 20Hz is not in the physics of subwoofers in the price range that most of us mortals can afford, regardless of how powerful the amp is and what Bob carver wants you all to think. Maybe you can find one flat at low volume but not for HT reference output. For flat in the 15-20Hz range at high output you have to buy a man size sub Mr. Rock. Tell Mrs Jamrock that in subs size counts! ;D yep and huge rofl at 10" sub flat to 8hz in a small box... riiiiiight.
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Post by jdskycaster on Sept 4, 2012 14:24:06 GMT -5
Chuck is absolutely correct in this regard. For audio applications where 30Hz on up is fine you can get away with smaller enclosures and smallish drivers. If you want flat to 20Hz or below at reference levels size is everything. These put my system somewhere in the ballpark. And he may look small in the photo but my son is 6'1".;D jdhtpictures.shutterfly.com/pictures/27That smallish looking sub in the background is an MFW-15.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 4, 2012 14:30:11 GMT -5
ELF systems like the Bag End and others are capable of very low output from small enclosure size by 1) operating below the fs of specially designed woofers 2) using EQ to flatten the output and 3) using plenty of amplifier power. It is a very different sort of design from a standard woofer system. And yes, the top end is limited because you reach the fs of the woofer, usually around 90-100Hz.
Anyone who doubts the output from one of the Infrasub systems has obviously never listened to them. So no, the above posts are not correct. Not in all cases, they are not.
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Post by rclark on Sept 4, 2012 14:45:10 GMT -5
In order to play 8HZ you are moving a lot of air. So unless the "integrator" upgrade with your 40 pound pipsqueak is a fan.... otherwise we would have heard about this miracle sub by now!
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