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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2012 15:44:30 GMT -5
wrinklemash,
I completely understand your frustration here. You were ready to purchase based on expectations and available data, but the product turned out to be different than what you expected. Same here. I planned on and saved for the XPA-200 immediately after it was announced in early May. I would have purchased it this weekend debt-free if I hadn't been blown over by the unexpected news about the XPA-1L during Emofest.
While it probably appears that I'm giving Emotiva the pass here while others want an explanation, I am by no means disappointed. However, I am also aware that this is not the first time Emotiva has posted inaccurate specifications on product launch. Therefore, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt here and I look forward to the updated specs.
With that said, I fully support the great folks at Emotiva and I know everyone there puts in their 110%, but they are not infallible. They have shown time and again that they are committed to their customers. To say this is a customer-oriented company would be a huge understatement. In fact, I consider them my "friends" for many reasons. I give family and friends much more grace and respect than I do with strangers. If Emotiva were a faceless company concerned only with their bottom line, I'd feel differently and wouldn't cut them as much slack.
My $0.02.
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Pauly
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 5,237
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Post by Pauly on Sept 16, 2012 17:08:58 GMT -5
I wonder if the 32db gain for the XPA-100 is a typo. I can't imagine why the 100 would have a 32db gain, when the 200 and most of the new Emo amps have a 29db gain.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2012 17:18:09 GMT -5
I wonder if the 32db gain for the XPA-100 is a typo. I can't imagine why the 100 would have a 32db gain, when the 200 and most of the new Emo amps have a 29db gain. I agree that it's probably a typo. Hopefully that will be cleared up, too. Heh, I'm still tempted to buy the XPA-200 since the XPA-1L won't be released until next year (who knows when). Problem is, I'll have to sell the 200 because I don't have a foreseeable need for it after upgrading to the L. In the long term, I would have spent more cash instead of just waiting and saving. Decisions decisions. My mini-X is doing great though.  |
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 16, 2012 18:10:26 GMT -5
Gotcha. To answer your question with the info we have now, the XPA-100's are better than the UPA-1 because they have a higher power output. Yes 25 watts more power at 8 Ohms, 10 watts into 4 ohms, 1 lb heavier, an "X" instead of a "U", and nicer connection jewelry. Those are the improvements I see. Garbulky, I think you noted this in the first post of the thread. The 25 & 10 watts more power is the one output performance oriented specification that is better than the UPA-1. But practically speaking, it does not impress. What does that equate to, the potential to be 0.5dB to 1dB louder than the UPA-1? EDIT: Probably a lot less than 0.5dB increase actually. Impressive specifications are given for THD+N and damping factor. However, the archived webpage and the UPA-1 owners manual do not give either, but the test report page for the UPA-1 does suggest that it had <.008 THD+N. The ad copy for the XPA-100 is <.03. I am hanging my judgement on how clean the amp is and that it has been stated that the guts of the amplifier have been improved. But I am not convinced yet. As of this point, we have no statement on the size of the transformer and the storage capacitance is down 20,000uF. Are the capacitors of better quality? Are implemented in a way that is superior in design to the UPA-1? I do not know. I buy 'upgrade' amplifiers based on my belief that the sound quality will be better than what I currently have, and/or if I have no direct experience with the product (I own UPA-2s, not UPA-1s) I judge the upgrade by comparing its measurements to its competitors or what the 'upgrade' replaces - in this case the UPA-1. As I do this with the information available on hand, I have very mixed feelings about the XPA-100. What is the performance value equation for this amplifier? I want to know what an extra $100-$150 per unit over the UPA-1 is getting me. If I can be made comfortable that the new units are in fact as good or better than the UPA-1s, I'd consider the new units. I know I have lambasted the connections, but they should make the new product more durable and potentially, a better use of my money. If not, I am looking for previously loved UPA-1s. |
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Post by enginerd87 on Sept 16, 2012 19:00:03 GMT -5
I am anxious to see what the specs will show tomorrow.
I have a very hard time believing the XPA-100 will best the UPA-1 in performance. That amp was simply a marvel for what it cost.
With that said, I am sure the XPA-100, 200 and UPA-700 are great amps. I really do not believe Emotiva would release an amplifier that did not sound good.
I can't wait to hear some reviews from purchasers. In the end, all that really matters is: HOW DOES IT SOUND?
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Post by tchaik on Sept 16, 2012 19:30:40 GMT -5
about the lower capacitance in the xpa-2.... lonnie has addressed that numerous times. if you count the caps with the stated capacitance you come up with a much larger # than 45,000. they are wired differently for whatever reason and the oversized transformer (note 1200 kva) makes up the difference. that is my poor man's non techie paraphrase. call lonnie on monday and he will give a thorough technical explanation as to why. as for the xpa-100/200 and the upa 200, the size of the transformer with secondary capacitance should clarify the difference.
my 2 cents........
tchaik............
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Post by RightinLA on Sept 16, 2012 19:37:58 GMT -5
about the lower capacitance in the xpa-2.... lonnie has addressed that numerous times. if you count the caps with the stated capacitance you come up with a much larger # than 45,000. they are wired differently for whatever reason and the oversized transformer (note 1200 kva) makes up the difference. that is my poor man's non techie paraphrase. call lonnie on monday and he will give a thorough technical explanation as to why. as for the xpa-100/200 and the upa 200, the size of the transformer with secondary capacitance should clarify the difference. my 2 cents........ tchaik............ Now that you bring up the XPA-2, I'll take it over any of the amps listed in the subject of this thread. For the life of me, I can't see why Emotiva chose to create a XPA-100 and a UPA-100. For me it is difficult to see both co-existing for very long and we shall see. I would be surprised to see both past 2013. |
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Post by sharkman on Sept 16, 2012 20:44:13 GMT -5
It's a bit of a puzzler. And the XPA-1L is coming.
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Post by garbulky on Sept 16, 2012 20:51:53 GMT -5
There's a UPA-100 coming?
I think it's to give the option of going to the x-series levels with XLR inputs. Depends on what the person considers important...
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2012 20:59:50 GMT -5
There's a UPA-100 coming? We are still working on a UPA-100 replacement which is an all new design, based on the new Ultra Series, but it is too early to announce the exact power and details. |
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 16, 2012 21:12:33 GMT -5
I am anxious to see what the specs will show tomorrow. I have a very hard time believing the XPA-100 will best the UPA-1 in performance. That amp was simply a marvel for what it cost. With that said, I am sure the XPA-100, 200 and UPA-700 are great amps. I really do not believe Emotiva would release an amplifier that did not sound good. I can't wait to hear some reviews from purchasers. In the end, all that really matters is: HOW DOES IT SOUND? Seconded - for all intents and purposes, I share your viewpoint above. |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2012 21:21:09 GMT -5
For the life of me, I can't see why Emotiva chose to create a XPA-100 and a UPA-100. For me it is difficult to see both co-existing for very long and we shall see. I would be surprised to see both past 2013. Dan has stated that the Ultra line will be reinvigorated with new products, including processors and amps. Although it is Emotiva's entry-level series, folks can get incredible value and great performance. It will whet their appetites.  As it stands, we have the following breakdown of amps (I'm excluding the mini-X a-100 for now): XPR-5 XPR-2 (announced) XPR-1 (announced) ----------------------------- XPA-7 (announced) XPA-5 XPA-3 XPA-2 XPA-1L (announced) XPA-1 ----------------------------- XPA-200 XPA-100 ----------------------------- UPA-700 UPA-500 UPA-200 UPA-100 (announced) Without the XPA-100/200 models, there would be a gap between the new Ultra series and the XPA series. What if somebody wanted more than a UPA-200 for two channel? They'd have to step up to the XPA-2 which is larger and more expensive. With the XPA-200, they've now got an in-between choice. The same story goes for the XPA-100. Once the UPA-1 was discontinued, the only mono-block option was the XPA-1. Now customers have another option instead of dropping a grand on an amp. [speculation_mode]I also believe that Emotiva chose to reincarnate the UPA-1 and UPA-2 amps due to popularity. The old UPAs were some of their best amps to date for value and performance. The new models embody their spirit, and along with various upgrades, folks can get a taste of higher performance above the new UPA-x00 series. [/speculation_mode] |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 16, 2012 21:41:19 GMT -5
For the life of me, I can't see why Emotiva chose to create a XPA-100 and a UPA-100. For me it is difficult to see both co-existing for very long and we shall see. I would be surprised to see both past 2013. Dan has stated that the Ultra line will be reinvigorated with new products, including processors and amps. Although it is Emotiva's entry-level series, folks can get incredible value and great performance. It will whet their appetites. As it stands, we have the following breakdown of amps (I'm excluding the mini-X a-100 for now): XPR-5 XPR-2 (announced) XPR-1 (announced) ----------------------------- XPA-7 (announced) XPA-5 XPA-3 XPA-2 XPA-1L (announced) XPA-1 ----------------------------- XPA-200 XPA-100 ----------------------------- UPA-700 UPA-500 UPA-200 UPA-100 (announced) Without the XPA-100/200 models, there would be a gap between the new Ultra series and the XPA series. What if somebody wanted more than a UPA-200 for two channel? They'd have to step up to the XPA-2 which is larger and more expensive. With the XPA-200, they've now got an in-between choice. The same story goes for the XPA-100. Once the UPA-1 was discontinued, the only mono-block option was the XPA-1. Now customers have another option instead of dropping a grand on an amp. [speculation_mode]I also believe that Emotiva chose to reincarnate the UPA-1 and UPA-2 amps due to popularity. The old UPAs were some of their best amps to date for value and performance. The new models embody their spirit, and along with various upgrades, folks can get a taste of higher performance above the new UPA-x00 series. [/speculation_mode]+1 and some people (like me) like the idea of the dual amp module sections on the UPA-2 and XLR's even if they are not truly balanced. I have an XDA-1, I sure want to use those nice looking XLR outs! And don't forget...no fans! I'm not sure if it is worth the $$ more than the u-series line yet but at the rate the UPA-2's and UPA-1's have been selling used this is obviously a good idea to bring them back. Hopefully the sales will keep them in business. And remember most people looking at emotiva aren't looking to spend much money so the reference series are for the big spenders which are few but the real meat of their market is in the U-series to XPA-2. So giving them more choices at this price range makes sense. |
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 16, 2012 23:19:09 GMT -5
For the life of me, I can't see why Emotiva chose to create a XPA-100 and a UPA-100. For me it is difficult to see both co-existing for very long and we shall see. I would be surprised to see both past 2013. Dan has stated that the Ultra line will be reinvigorated with new products, including processors and amps. Although it is Emotiva's entry-level series, folks can get incredible value and great performance. It will whet their appetites. As it stands, we have the following breakdown of amps (I'm excluding the mini-X a-100 for now): XPR-5 XPR-2 (announced) XPR-1 (announced) ----------------------------- XPA-7 (announced) XPA-5 XPA-3 XPA-2 XPA-1L (announced) XPA-1 ----------------------------- XPA-200 XPA-100 ----------------------------- UPA-700 UPA-500 UPA-200 UPA-100 (announced)Where was the UPA-100 announced? I did a forum search and turned up nothing - then again, it could be the way I searched. |
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Post by rclark on Sept 16, 2012 23:34:22 GMT -5
If you guys really want to know what these amps are doing and can live without them for a week, I know a guy who has a test bed for these measurements and does them all the time.
He was just able to show that the Ncores match published spec exactly to t. Just saying, the option is there if you're truly curious.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2012 23:47:14 GMT -5
Where was the UPA-100 announced? I did a forum search and turned up nothing - then again, it could be the way I searched. The Proboards search function sucks. We are still working on a UPA-100 replacement which is an all new design, based on the new Ultra Series, but it is too early to announce the exact power and details. |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 17, 2012 0:25:35 GMT -5
wrinkled mash, just click the date next to the qoute it will bring you to the original qoute.
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 17, 2012 0:46:55 GMT -5
wrinkled mash, just click the date next to the qoute it will bring you to the original qoute. Okay - thanks Dark Ranger and Garbulky |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 19, 2012 1:43:06 GMT -5
Well, I did the unthinkable: I purchased the XPA-200.  I called up Emotiva on Tuesday late afternoon and talked to one of the Nicks (sorry, didn't get his last name). I inquired about some of the posted specs hoping to get the updated versions, but he replied quoting the current specs. Oh well. I didn't want to push it. In any case, the unexpected 10%-off sale helped push me towards a decision. I forgot to ask him how close I had come to ordering the first XPA-200 since release day last Friday. D'oh! I won't bore you with my reasons (there were several), but I will say that part of it was a dare and part of it was on faith. I just couldn't believe that Emotiva would offer a poorly-performing amplifier, especially at that price. My curiosity got the better of me and I want to try it out. Besides, if it turns out to be a poor decision, I can return it within 30 days. I'll be highly surprised if I do... I'm still going to purchase the XPA-1Ls (eventually), but this works great for now and will be an upgrade to the mini-X. The mini amp will be moved to my bedroom system replacing an old Onkyo CD receiver/integrated unit. Oh, I asked for a left-over Emofest shirt to be added to my order.  |
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Sept 19, 2012 3:02:38 GMT -5
Congratulations! I expect to hear your Ascends all the way over on the Gulf coast! Oh and a review of the Emofest shirt new arrival next week is a must! ;D |
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