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Post by garbulky on Oct 5, 2012 2:07:52 GMT -5
This thread is about my journey and experiments I do as I go on my journey to the sound I like. Expect posts about random topics hopefully connected to audio. Right now, I've been experimenting with room treatments via jerry rigging. Not having much in the way of finances or DIY skills/patience, I have decided to go primitive. Right now, I have 1 towel, 1 comforter, and two blankets. ;D After some experimentation, most of which I've been glad my wife has been asleep for ;D ;D , I realized it's hard to tell the difference in room treatments. It's not necessarily something that jumps out and grabs you. Currently I have the one side that is next to a wall comforted -uh, treated at the point of the first reflection. Some previous experimentation where I just put blankets like wall between the two speakers immediately behind the front plane of the speakers, for some reason cut off the bass response a little and reduced the depth of the soundstage. The treble - best way I can describe it is that there's a little off the top in terms of ease. I'm not sure why. I hung the blankets further back and it appears to help the bass reduction and added a comforter to the side wall. So far, it's a little clearer but I feel like something's off or not. How do I know what a treated room sounds like?! I'm just making this up largely as I go along.  |
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emovac
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Post by emovac on Oct 5, 2012 2:49:33 GMT -5
Add an adult beverage for clarity! ;D Have fun with your project.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 5, 2012 3:24:19 GMT -5
Thanks!
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Post by G-Man on Oct 5, 2012 6:40:13 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of 'learn as you go' so I really like this approach. It would be helpful to better understand your specific goals in terms of sound vs. the sound you have in your untreated room. What are you are trying to improve? Boomy bass, high end harshness, etc.
There's a pretty decent free tutorial on the Auralex website you might want to check out if you haven't already seen it.
Best wishes and keep us posted on the progress.
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Post by daveh1 on Oct 5, 2012 7:44:52 GMT -5
After some experimentation, most of which I've been glad my wife has been asleep for ;D ;D , You know that's not really OK.  But keep up the good work... |
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Post by jackfish on Oct 5, 2012 8:14:36 GMT -5
Do you know what the broadband absorption factor of blankets and comforters are? While you will get some absorption in the appropriate frequency range, and these items may be better than nothing, they cannot be expected to give you the results that materials and products with known absorption characteristics can provide. In general, any audio system (source media, components, room and listener) can benefit from bass traps in the corners and broadband absorption at the first reflection points, sidewalls and ceiling. From there it depends on the system characteristics how to employ additional absorption and diffusion.
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Post by Darksky on Oct 5, 2012 11:08:16 GMT -5
You know the rule: Pictures, or it did not happen.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 5, 2012 11:38:23 GMT -5
I think it's a great idea garbulky, work with what you have and learn from the results; the rest of us can follow your 'blog' and chime in and root from the sidelines. Though props to your wife for sleeping through audio 'testing'  - which begs the question - Is one of your goals soundproofing? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 5, 2012 11:49:17 GMT -5
I suggest doing some reading and investing in room analysis gear. The cheapest way to go is REW (Room EQ Wizard) software and a measurement microphone. That way you can "see" in real time what your experiments are doing to the sound in the room, and you can correlate what you hear to specific changes in the sound scape, then you can predict more quickly and accurately what you're going to like when you make changes. Also, using blankets and comforters and over-stuffed furniture is a good way to experiment, but the actual absorption of sound treatment panels can be 3 or 4 times greater than what a blanket will do. And don't forget that one of the best ways to improve the high frequency side of the spectrum is with diffusion, not absorption. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 5, 2012 17:34:29 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of 'learn as you go' so I really like this approach. It would be helpful to better understand your specific goals in terms of sound vs. the sound you have in your untreated room. What are you are trying to improve? Boomy bass, high end harshness, etc. There's a pretty decent free tutorial on the Auralex website you might want to check out if you haven't already seen it. Best wishes and keep us posted on the progress. Thanks for the links. My room is a small-medium size living room. The speakers are on the long wall about a foot and a 1/4 from the side wall and about a foot away from the rear walls. The other side has a long hall way on the wall closest to my speakers. The place is carpeted. And has a high ceiling. What I've mostly been trying to get is an improvement in the depth of the sound. I found moving the speakers around did help. Unfortunately when I moved them further away from the rear wall the room effects became somewhat apparent. I feel like right now my soundstage is not as sharp as I like it. It's been a trade off between a very good soundstage where everything is defined but the depth is very flat and a soundstage with depth but a diffuse sounding image. It's annoying as my hearing acuity fluctuates and I know when my hearing is not quite up to par. I'm pretty sensitive to sound and small differences stand out to me. The difference is mainly in left to right balance. Anyway, I feel the fix for the soundstage has to do with toe-in but I can't do too much experimenting with toe-in when my hearing balance is not quite there. I just have to wait for a day when it's better... Anyway, I really do feel there's some reflections of some sort going on and I would like to correct that. After some experimentation, most of which I've been glad my wife has been asleep for ;D ;D , You know that's not really OK. But keep up the good work... ;D Do you know what the broadband absorption factor of blankets and comforters are? While you will get some absorption in the appropriate frequency range, and these items may be better than nothing, they cannot be expected to give you the results that materials and products with known absorption characteristics can provide. In general, any audio system (source media, components, room and listener) can benefit from bass traps in the corners and broadband absorption at the first reflection points, sidewalls and ceiling. From there it depends on the system characteristics how to employ additional absorption and diffusion. I'm very new to this stuff. I can imagine that the proper materials and calibration equipment will go a long way. Unfortunately it's just not in the cards right now due to life.  I heard that it is best to move the speakers to the short wall to give an increasing legnth for the room. So I may have to try that. Unfortunately if I do, it will complicate the whole room acoustics a bit because there's a whole lot more stuff in the way. So it's going to take a lot more work. I think it's a great idea garbulky, work with what you have and learn from the results; the rest of us can follow your 'blog' and chime in and root from the sidelines. Though props to your wife for sleeping through audio 'testing' - which begs the question - Is one of your goals soundproofing? Thanks. No soundproofing though it would be fantastic is not my goal. It's mainly getting a better depth in soundstage while preserving the clarity of the image. Anyway, thanks for the responses everybody. It's much appreciated. I shall update as things change. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 7, 2013 20:15:40 GMT -5
After a nice carpet cleaning job, the carpet is clean enough to move the couch further back from the speakers. The sound is great! The axioms do like their space and can provide some power. It still amazes me how much positioning makes a BIG difference with these speakers. Just yesterday it sounded rather iffy at high power. Now with the couch pushed back, I realize it may have just been positioning. Boy I wish I had a larger living room with no worries about turning up the volume. Sipping on some Jim Bean bourbon and coca cola, listening to some queen. Life is pretty good.  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 7, 2013 20:24:03 GMT -5
Sounds like a good evening in the making!
You know, about "wish-fors"...my wife and I designed and built this house. While my listening room is the best I have ever had, I really do wish I had put in a full (2600 ft2) basement instead of this partial (1100 ft2) basement - and I wish I had put in extra tall basement walls...another 1.5' would have been great! The added cost then would not have been a big deal yet I could have had an awesome listening room that way. And, I would have had room for bigger Maggies! Live and learn!
Mark
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Post by garbulky on Jan 7, 2013 20:30:49 GMT -5
Mark, I agree. I'm confined to a town house which as you can imagine is very restrictive. Luckily our neighbors have never complained. My future house purchase is going to center around space for my audio system. Is that bad? |
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 7, 2013 20:57:28 GMT -5
Mark, I agree. I'm confined to a town house which as you can imagine is very restrictive. Luckily our neighbors have never complained. My future house purchase is going to center around space for my audio system. Is that bad? Haha, no, that is not bad at all. That's exactly what I did when I bought my house. The real estate agent probably thought I was nuts when I turned down some pretty nice houses because of their poor "listening rooms" lol. Tile floors, wood floors, too many windows etc. ;D |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 7, 2013 21:01:18 GMT -5
Not bad at all!
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Post by garbulky on Jan 12, 2013 16:33:59 GMT -5
Update on the xda-1;s and upa-2 combo. I am trying a little experiment -On the advice of poster goldeneye - to use the 12db attenuators AND adjust the gain at the back of the upa-2 to get the xda-1 between 70 and 80 at listenable volumes. Well before using the attenuators I tried adjusting the gain control at the back of the upa-2 and it sounded bad. There was audible distortion and the sound felt compressed. So I put it down to 1. The input of the Upa-2 with the xda-1 at 80 was just too much for the upa-2 gain control when turned down low. 2. The gain control is a POS. ;D Now with attenuators: interestingly, on initial listen I don't detect audible distortion or significant compression. This is just my first listen to it. But I may have been wrong about point 2 and it was the xda-1's interaction with the upa-2 causing the distortion in some way with the gain control not necessarily the gain control itself. On initial listening I feel that I'm hearing what may be a positive sound quality change. However, it's still way too early to say if using the gain control will contribute negatives I can't live with or to even describe what I'm hearing. I shall update. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 12, 2013 17:27:41 GMT -5
Want some comparative "reflection less" listening? Move your rig out to the back yard & set up the distances & geometry similarly to the listening room. It's as close to a anechoic chamber as you're likely to get. See how it sounds outdoors, then try to make the actual listening room sound the same.
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Post by garbulky on Jan 12, 2013 18:07:38 GMT -5
lol. I never thought about that boom! I don't think I'm that adventerous to take it outdoors but that's a good point. But anyway, I don't really have a backyard and I'm worried everybody would look at me weird listening by the road on the front! ;D
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Post by Cory Cooper on Jan 12, 2013 18:15:00 GMT -5
Want some comparative "reflection less" listening? Move your rig out to the back yard & set up the distances & geometry similarly to the listening room. It's as close to a anechoic chamber as you're likely to get. See how it sounds outdoors, then try to make the actual listening room sound the same. This is actually a well-known way to setup/tune a PA system. Not as practical for a home theater system though.  C |
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- which begs the question - Is one of your goals soundproofing?
