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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 8, 2012 3:59:07 GMT -5
Hiya,
i Know the brands have been compared before but has anyone compared/had experience with their sound/sonics differences of the JC1 and XPA-1s. (ignore the looks, warranty, cost, etc)
Reason im asking is im either going to go down the JC-1 and JC2 BP or add the XSP-1 to my current line up of XPA-1s.
Muchly appreciate anyone's experiences and opinions.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 8, 2012 4:46:02 GMT -5
I've never heard either. The parasound jc1 does perform better than its rated according to some stereophile measurements. It also has a lower gain circuit approx 28-29 db than the XPA-1. I'm not sure if it is a truly balanced design though. Good luck with your decision. Since you already have the xpa-1's, I don't know if this would be a worthwhile jump. There's an amp called the hypex ncore that has been getting some seriously good reviews in that price range that I've heard some emo members talk about. One of them compared it to his XPA-2 and said that the ncore was superior though more pricey.
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Post by kzone on Oct 8, 2012 6:15:04 GMT -5
The bigger question wud be how will the xsp1 perform against the parasound pre. Recently tried an old high end preamp to replace the usp 1 and the improved performance is truly remarkable which reflects the xpa1's quality. I have ordered the xsp1 and can't wait to see how it stand against that old preamp. It probably cost 10 times more when new but is also almost 10yrs older
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 8, 2012 8:02:45 GMT -5
Garbulky, thank you.
yes ive read about the ncores are look very interesting, however im heading down the path (i think) of matched pieces to see what sort of synergy they produce.
kzone,
its nearly a bigger question. i currently use a audio research ls17 with the XPA-1s and without attenuators the hiss is clearly audible from 3 meters. The xsp figures stack up very well and may be a perfect match for the xpa's but be hard work for the KEFs and my ears, which it seems to be at the moment.
one problem in Singapore is that while the gear is available (lots) very rarely will you get the opportunity to test drive at home with your gear and your environment, and we are talking big ticket stuff.
Opinions therefore become important, hence the question on sound (type). i do hope there is someone here with direct experience, though i do appreciate the ideas.
keep it coming...
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Post by kzone on Oct 8, 2012 10:55:23 GMT -5
12elfthfloor, assume u r using balanced connection. Have u tried shorting the RCA input of ur XPA1s?
What do u mean hard work for the KEFs & ur ears? My XPA1s r driving penaudio sinfonia and while the accuphase is still with me, u r welcomed to come over for a listen.
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Post by djoel on Oct 8, 2012 12:09:53 GMT -5
I've heard the closest to JC1 at a significant lower price are the XPA1's from a good friend who had them both, I just can't recall if they were at the same time. I do know that he kept the Parasound, but it wasn't because the XPA-1 lacked in any way..I bought my self a pair because of his high recommendation of the Emotiva mono amps, and they did an incredible job with the speaker I owned at the a pair of B&W 802N's.
Mono amps are special creatures, in doing wonderful things to your system removing one less veil out from the fronts. Whether widening the sound stage, highlighting the highs, and sparkling midrange, and feeding the hungry bass drivers, all this adds to the magic, at low volumes, and you can definitely hear at high distortion free raw tapping volumes..
I've a few mono's from Classe', Cary, Outlaw, and Emotiva, and my two favorites where the Cary, which cost about 8K, and the Emotivas at 2K, and the difference are extreamly small.
Good luck
Dan
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 8, 2012 18:17:07 GMT -5
Yes tried RCA very slight differences but nothing significant.
Don't get me wrong on the XPA's they are really good and would like nothing more than to keep them but I need to be sure it is not them that are accentuating the brightish hard sound through the KEFs and the (damn) hiss.
I'm taking the ARC in today to check it out with some other high gain amps in case there is a problem with it.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 8, 2012 18:31:09 GMT -5
I used 12 db RCA voltage attenuators for my xda-1, upa-2 combo which tamed the slightly harsh sound on loud dynamics. It gave me an improvement on dynamics for music. Not so much for movies. For me it feels like a sound signature difference which makes it more analog/smoother sounding. Others have reported an improvement with their emo amps and XDA-1. One person felt that it veiled the sound. Can be found here: www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-244 |
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Oct 8, 2012 19:52:37 GMT -5
Yes tried RCA very slight differences but nothing significant. Don't get me wrong on the XPA's they are really good and would like nothing more than to keep them but I need to be sure it is not them that are accentuating the brightish hard sound through the KEFs and the (damn) hiss. I'm taking the ARC in today to check it out with some other high gain amps in case there is a problem with it. Several people on this forum have reported similar brightish/hiss/harsh issues that were subsequently completely cured by using an Emo CMX-2 between the amps and wall outlet. Maybe give that a shot first? |
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Oct 8, 2012 21:47:08 GMT -5
I used 12 db RCA voltage attenuators for my xda-1, upa-2 combo which tamed the slightly harsh sound on loud dynamics. It gave me an improvement on dynamics for music. Not so much for movies. For me it feels like a sound signature difference which makes it more analog/smoother sounding. Others have reported an improvement with their emo amps and XDA-1. One person felt that it veiled the sound. Can be found here: www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-244Just want to remind anyone using these that an attenuator is unidirectional. The RCA socket is input, the RCA plug is output.  |
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 8, 2012 21:49:54 GMT -5
That's very interesting!
i use a richard grey r600 at the moment just for the Amps. Stock cables.
Is the CMX-2 230v? if it is ill definitely give it a whirl.
Thank you.
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Post by roadrunner on Oct 9, 2012 0:20:33 GMT -5
That's very interesting! i use a richard grey r600 at the moment just for the Amps. Stock cables. Is the CMX-2 230v? if it is ill definitely give it a whirl. Thank you. Not at the moment. Lonnie said that they will be making the CMX-2 and CMX-6 for 230V sockets shortly. I don't believe I have seen a more specific time frame, so I suggest you contact Lonnie of Big Dan to see how soon they will be available. |
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 9, 2012 2:47:12 GMT -5
On the ARC, i took it in today,
1. hooked it up to a set of Goldmund 28.5 db and SF Amati 95db same hiss although very slightly slightly less.
2. Did the same with Pass Labs 26db and Wilsons Sophia 3 88db, still a hiss but what i would term as very acceptable for a tube.
3. Replaced the tubes, no change.
Summary,
nothing wrong with the ARC 12db, XPA-1 32db, Speakers 91db. The key is the gain in the XPA-1s at 32db.
Options are;
1. live with it (no thanks)
2. attenuate it currently doing it with 10db rothwells though would prefer not to.
3. change the pre amp (better with go solid state maybe)
4. change the amps (i would need a really, really good reason)
lots to think about.
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 9, 2012 2:55:41 GMT -5
thanks Garbulky,
Im already using XLR 10db attenuators from Rothwell on the input to the Amps. they remove some of the hiss, but, but, but...
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Post by garbulky on Oct 9, 2012 5:37:22 GMT -5
I hear ya. Glad to hear the attenuators help but at these price levels, I agree you need to have better silence. It's possible it's something else in your signal path. If it makes a difference, the upcoming XPA-1 L (has half the power of the xpa-1 but fully balanced and xpa-1 like) may be 29 db gain if it follows the same format the new amps are following. It also gives you 30 watts class A per channel compared to the 10 watts the xpa-1 does. Lonnie also appears to be tossing around the idea of an XPA-1 XL which will give you 60 watts class A per channel. Fwiw, the hypex ncore are 26db gain.
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Post by jjmatrix on Oct 9, 2012 6:21:35 GMT -5
I had the same noise/hiss issue, although I don't own XPA-1, only UPA-1s and an XPA-5 amp. When using my Carver C2 preamp directly, (35 dB gain for MM and 25 dB for high level inputs) I could never get rid off the noise.
From my research of the issue, I gathered that it's normal when having hi gain pre and amps as well as sensitive speakers (mine are 95 dB).
Enter UMC-1: this pre-pro gives me quiet sound without changing anything else. My only issue right now (albeit I consider it a small problem) is that when listening to my turntable I have to go via Carver >> UMC-1 >> Amps which is not ideal; but... it works for me.
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 9, 2012 7:39:33 GMT -5
yes ive definitely learnt a lot from this ongoing exercise, but has left me in a quandary.
interestingly i also heard a Goldmund SS with matching SS mono amps with 95db speakers and whoa this hiss! remarkable... so that put that theory to bed.
looks like a fact of life that if I dont want it past 50cm (ear to tweeter), go 26db amp gain and less than 90db speakers.
or live with it... will review again tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2012 10:37:17 GMT -5
"looks like a fact of life that if I dont want it past 50cm (ear to tweeter..."
50cm? Say what? 20 inches?!! Talk about "nearfield" listening!! You might just as well buy a nice set of headphones and dispense with the speakers...
-RW-
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Post by 12elfthfloor on Oct 9, 2012 23:18:10 GMT -5
misunderstanding, currently its 3 meters, was drawing the opposite extreme.
headphones are not for me, how would i share my music choices with the neighbours and the surrounding suburbs??? :-)
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Post by garbulky on Oct 10, 2012 0:46:53 GMT -5
Sometimes the source of hiss is something simple and easy to fix. I would explore that stuff as well. Maybe a different plug point, check common culprits like dimmer switches, line conditioners/surge protectors (yes), other circuits and devices connected to the circuit extensions, plug points, poor grounding issues, WIRES, interconnects, even adapters like banana plugs, power cords, air conditioners etc.
It can drive you nuts but if there is an inherent source for the noise, no matter how good the amp that you replace it with, it's not going to fix the problem. I have 91db to 94db efficient speakers. I hear a small hiss when my ear is next to the speaker and maybe at most a foot away. I have no line conditioner or anything. With the 12 db attenuators in, it can't be heard more than 10 cm away and that if I'm straining. I now have to put my ear right up to the tweeter to hear a hiss.
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