|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 22, 2012 17:25:00 GMT -5
Tell me again who has a balanced preamp with a full complement of XLR outs AND in), phono (MM & MC), bass management, tone controls, high quality parts & build, 5 yr warranty for under $1000... Probably nobody, BUT if some of those don't matter to ME, then the value scale shifts! I don't have balanced sources or power amps so bye-bye to caring about balanced XLR ins and outs. I don't have phonograph records anymore, so adios to MM & MC phono inputs with variable impedance padding. I've never cared for (or needed) tone controls, so AMF to messing with the frequency balance. What's left? Bass management, "high-quality parts & build" and a 5-year warranty. EVERY manufacturer in this price range claims "high quality parts & build." Parasound 2100 has bass management (for FAR less $$$). And if I don't like the unit, why should I care about its warranty? It won't stay in my living room long enough to matter.  I'm not trying to be prickly here - I'm just stating that for MY priorities, is the XSP-1 really worth the extra scratch? I could avail myself of Emotiva's free in home trial and then send it back if I don't like it, but I have ethical reservations. I feel that if I've bothered Emotiva with making a purchase and having them ship it to me, that I should keep the darned thing and not send it back whining that "I didn't like it." This is an irrational response that I recognize in myself: Emotiva is offering the free trial to keep customers happy. The VAST majority of buyers probably NEVER exercise the return option because the VAST majority of Emotiva's products are exceptional values for the money. I guess I'm asking whether the XSP-1 is also an "exceptional value for the money" in comparison to the competition. |
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs 
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Oct 22, 2012 17:27:06 GMT -5
Don't get carried away with names, logos, face plates or hype. Listen to them all and make your choice. I'm pretty damn sure that "they might" equal the XSP-1 but not objectively better. Also, if you can, check the quality of the component parts and engineering design. You will be surprised that Emotiva is kicking the ass of the regulars  |
|
|
|
Post by avidhiker on Oct 22, 2012 17:28:51 GMT -5
...The XSP-1 is LOTS more expensive than the USP-1. Consensus seems to be that yes, it sounds better (and it should). The question is does it sound 50% better than the USP-1?... Well, isn't that subjective? I believe you would be the best person to "quantify" the improvement, if that's even possible. So the question is: How does the XSP-1 compare with the competition at large, and more to the point, why should I buy Emotiva rather than the competition? Well, it just came out and most around here will not have the luxury of comparing with a variety of current competitors. I would wait for professional reviews to get a feel, but I would imagine a reason at least some around here might buy it is to get something with excellent specs that matches the rest of their Emotiva equipment. Assuming I'm willing to part with the $$$ for an XSP-1 (which I actually MAY be), how does the XSP-1 compare with the same prices on used gear? Currently on e-Bay, I see the following for the same or less than the XSP-1: Crown SL2 McIntosh MX-113 McIntosh C-712 Threshold Coda 02 Audible Illusions Modulus 3A I can speak to used McIntosh, having owned a C39 for several years now. My understanding is the most of the Mc folks get their units reconditioned/recapped every 10-15 years (and of course there are the bulbs to keep replacing). The 113 is ancient, so you would have to factor in some significant repair cost to get anywhere near comparable performance, IMO. The 712 is probably very similar to my C39 running in stereo mode (same years of manufacture). Its a great preamp, but it still shows it's age. Mine was never repaired and needed substantial bass (+3dB) and treble (+6dB) adjustments to get anywhere near flat response. Lights were going out and are very difficult to get in and replace. Still, it sounded very nice. Swapping it out for the XSP-1, I immediately noted significantly improved detail and dynamics, with otherwise a very similar tone in Direct mode (maybe a hair colder). Not a trouncing, but a definite upgrade (and the XSP looks much nicer in my rack). |
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Oct 22, 2012 17:39:25 GMT -5
Tell me again who has a balanced preamp with a full complement of XLR outs AND in), phono (MM & MC), bass management, tone controls, high quality parts & build, 5 yr warranty for under $1000... Probably nobody, BUT if some of those don't matter to ME, then the value scale shifts! I don't have balanced sources or power amps so bye-bye to caring about balanced XLR ins and outs. I don't have phonograph records anymore, so adios to MM & MC phono inputs with variable impedance padding. I've never cared for (or needed) tone controls, so AMF to messing with the frequency balance. What's left? Bass management, "high-quality parts & build" and a 5-year warranty. EVERY manufacturer in this price range claims "high quality parts & build." Parasound 2100 has bass management (for FAR less $$$). And if I don't like the unit, why should I care about its warranty? It won't stay in my living room long enough to matter. I'm not trying to be prickly here - I'm just stating that for MY priorities, is the XSP-1 really worth the extra scratch? I could avail myself of Emotiva's free in home trial and then send it back if I don't like it, but I have ethical reservations. I feel that if I've bothered Emotiva with making a purchase and having them ship it to me, that I should keep the darned thing and not send it back whining that "I didn't like it." This is an irrational response that I recognize in myself: Emotiva is offering the free trial to keep customers happy. The VAST majority of buyers probably NEVER exercise the return option because the VAST majority of Emotiva's products are exceptional values for the money. I guess I'm asking whether the XSP-1 is also an "exceptional value for the money" in comparison to the competition. Personally I think the XSP-1 is worth the money but based on everything you wrote above plus your earlier post, it doesn't sound to me like that is the right preamp for you. You've already listed some good reasons to support that. Like someone else said, it's largely a matter of personal preference. I like Emo gear, think it is very well made and is a great value for the money - I'd rather have something new with a 5 year warranty and with a company that I know has great service. To each their own, I guess. Me, I'm thrilled to have something of this quality that fits in my budget.  |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 22, 2012 17:41:09 GMT -5
Alas, I can't listen to them all (or even a few of them). There is no local "audio saloon" that carries a wide variety of gear. The nearest city that might is about 400 miles away. Limited though the value may be, I've got to rely on the ears of honest net denizens for their information. If one has compared his XSP-1 to his previous Parasound, then at least I get some basis to evaluate. "Better, worse, or no difference" are totally subjective assessments, but they're better than nothing.
My preamp experience is limited:
Modified Dynaco PAS (good to very good)
Crown IC-150 (not so good)
Classe AV (OK but very bright)
AV preamps from Rotel & Emo (no dynamics & just so-so sound)
Even my limited experience is more than most have. I began ignoring "parts quality" when surface mount technology came out. How can one tell anymore?
Based on my VERY positive experience with Emo's XPA-2, I bought the UMC-1 expecting to be wowed again - Not. So is the USP and XSP line closer to the XPA sound or the UMC sound?
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
|
Post by klinemj on Oct 22, 2012 17:42:22 GMT -5
I think it sounds 2x better...so I am happy to have it. Of course, I plan to keep my USP-1 and will use it elsewhere in my house.
And...AudioHTIT...you left something out...it has "all that AND a bag of chips..."...said "bag of chips" being HT Bypass with lots of options for how to use it!
For me, the HT Bypass is critical...allows me to have the best of my 2-channel and the best of my multichannel in 1 room. I admit...with a 4400 square foot home, I can only afford to dedicate one 18*28' space to audio or video. I like both, and I don't like bad compromises.
The XSP-1 is NOT a bad compromise at all. In fact, I'd say it is zero compromise.
Mark
|
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Oct 22, 2012 18:33:55 GMT -5
Had Emo charged $2,599.00 for the XSP-1, no one would question its performance. Old biases die slowly or not at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 22, 2012 19:05:28 GMT -5
I agree that if you don't want balanced circuits or phono you should be checking out the competition (and everyone should do their homework anyway). I would pay extra for the X series build quality (using the UMC-1 and XDA-1 as reference), but I would also use all the features I mentioned plus the balanced HT bypass (yes Mark you're right, I was eating a burger and missed it) It sounds (boomzilla) like you're really asking is it the best sounding line preamp under $1000? I don't know. |
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Oct 22, 2012 19:12:56 GMT -5
Don't you think that you are casting pearls? ;D Emo will always be questioned because of their pricings. I have read just about all I can from very knowledgeble people who own this component and they're all excellent. It's either you buy or look elsewhere. Or else you just cannot be satisfied. Since the component is available for sale, you need to listen and question what is heard. But to question how it is built? Give me a break |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
|
Post by klinemj on Oct 22, 2012 19:18:03 GMT -5
A BURGER!!!! You are talking XSP-1...move up to a filet mignon, at least!
;D
Well, I hope it was a really great burger, at least...not a slider or a Big Mac...
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 22, 2012 19:19:22 GMT -5
Are you saying (Jamrock) I shouldn't want something built better than a UMC? Or that boomzilla should care more? I want high quality connectors and don't want to feel the back panel move when I plug stuff in (for example) - that's fine if you don't care - but I will pay for a solid unit (like I also expect the XMC-1 to be).
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 22, 2012 19:22:15 GMT -5
A BURGER!!!! You are talking XSP-1...move up to a filet mignon, at least! ;D Well, I hope it was a really great burger, at least...not a slider or a Big Mac... Mark Well ... Just my goto Carl's Jr "Super Star" ... one of my favs. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 22, 2012 19:24:08 GMT -5
...Emo will always be questioned because of their pricings...It's either you buy or look elsewhere. Or else you just cannot be satisfied...you need to listen and question what is heard. But to question how it is built? Give me a break WHOA - Misunderstandings abound... I never questioned Emo's quality. I never looked "down" on them for their price. I never questioned "how it is built." I'm VERY satisfied with my Emo XPA-2 (except with my current speakers, where it just doesn't work very well). I was VERY satisfied with my Emo DAC. The ONLY Emo product to date that didn't wow me was my UMC-1 AV preamp. I expect to buy a solid-state stereo preamp soon. I don't have the luxury of auditioning all the units (or even some of the units) on the market in my price range. I'm only trying to ascertain whether the XSP-1 is worth the extra money over the USP-1 for MY NEEDS. The feature set of the XSP-1 (for me) is a wash. I'm looking at sound quality and that alone for the money. My candidates in the preamp race so far are: A used USP-1 (about $300) A new XSP-1 A new Parasound (about $600) A used Audio Research line stage ($1000 to $1500) There are a multitude of other choices in the audio universe, but the above (with the exception of the Parasound and the XSP-1) are relatively "known" in terms of their sonics. If anyone has other candidates that I ought to be looking at, please chime in. |
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Oct 22, 2012 19:36:42 GMT -5
If I misunderstood you in any respect, I take it all back. Sometimes my posts are combination responses to several other posts. What I also had in mind was someone "questioning" the difference between the XLR & RCA input/outputs which someone indicated was a difference of 0.0002%. Peace!
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
|
Post by klinemj on Oct 22, 2012 21:00:31 GMT -5
I always encourage people to try what they want. I also say to pay attention to specs and features. But..."YMMV"...try those that seem closest to your need, then decide.
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by kzone on Oct 22, 2012 21:16:49 GMT -5
I want high quality connectors and don't want to feel the back panel move when I plug stuff in (for example) - that's fine if you don't care - but I will pay for a solid unit (like I also expect the XMC-1 to be). I can relate to this.. I am disappointed that the connectors on XPA1s is not as solid as I expected it to be for Emotiva's flagship. And I hope the XSP1 will be better built. If the XSP-XPA1 pairing sound good to me, I will be changing the connectors on the XPA1s. I will be comparing the XSP1 with a few other preamps costing up to 5 times the price.. am not settling for the XSP1 if its "only" the best preamp under $1000. |
|
jamrock
Emo VIPs
Courtesy Costs Nothing. Give Generously!
Posts: 4,750
|
Post by jamrock on Oct 22, 2012 21:19:46 GMT -5
What I observe over time, is that Emotiva's engineering is questioned moreso thasn McIntosh, Krell, etc., because they charge less for their components. And, the thought seems to be that if it costs less, there must have been detrimental compromises. I truly believe that if a high-end manufacturer had made the XSP-1 and charged excessively more for it, these discussions would be moot. Therefore, rather than questioning construction, let us hear about definable deficiencies and discuss how they can be rectified. If there are none, let us move away from quibbling and enjoy the music.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 22, 2012 21:50:17 GMT -5
If I misunderstood you in any respect, I take it all back. Sometimes my posts are combination responses to several other posts. What I also had in mind was someone "questioning" the difference between the XLR & RCA input/outputs which someone indicated was a difference of 0.0002%. Peace! Well I don't think the distortion spec is the place to highlight the benefits of balanced outs, if one runs long ICs from Pre to Power the lower noise can be audible; also that 0.0002 doesn't take a complete balanced signal path into account. In other words I don't think you can take that 0.0002 difference to dismiss the advantages of a balanced signal path. I also don't think people should confuse XLR's with build quality, the new UMC-500 will have XLR outputs, yet it's build quality will not equal the XMC-1. I will continue to discuss build quality despite your feelings that "audiophiles" shouldn't care; If the XMC-1 were to have the same build quality as the UMC-1 I wouldn't buy it. |
|
|
|
Post by rclark on Oct 22, 2012 21:56:21 GMT -5
I love how Jamrock locks on to one spec, as though he knows anything about audio, and then tells us all how to interpret things.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 22, 2012 21:57:43 GMT -5
I want high quality connectors and don't want to feel the back panel move when I plug stuff in (for example) - that's fine if you don't care - but I will pay for a solid unit (like I also expect the XMC-1 to be). I can relate to this.. I am disappointed that the connectors on XPA1s is not as solid as I expected it to be for Emotiva's flagship. And I hope the XSP1 will be better built. If the XSP-XPA1 pairing sound good to me, I will be changing the connectors on the XPA1s. I will be comparing the XSP1 with a few other preamps costing up to 5 times the price.. am not settling for the XSP1 if its "only" the best preamp under $1000. Sorry to hear you're disappointed with the XPA-1 build, I was referring to the difference between the U series and X series, as I judge them using the UMC-1 and XDA-1. I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that all U's and all X's are similar to these examples. On the other hand you may also be a little pickier than I which is also OK. |
|
