|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2012 13:04:50 GMT -5
Do you guys know how many people in this forum have and love Klipsch with XPA amps? I'm not saying my experience is typical. Variables that may play a part: My room is very live I play music at lower levels than most My musical taste is highly eclectic My La Scalas have their original crossovers I'm using a subwoofer with the La Scalas My ears are 60 years old, but without significant presbyacusis I'm sure that many are thrilled with their Emo gear and their Klipsch speakers. I'm not one. |
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Oct 19, 2012 13:22:30 GMT -5
......The Crites "A" crossovers can work in K-horn, La Scala, or the Belle equally well provided you're not playing the speakers as sound-reinforcement units. The "A" crossovers don't have the zener diode for tweeter protection that the more expensive crossovers have, but they are reputed to sound sweeter...... There are far more differences between the AL and the A crossover than just the zener diodes. One big one is that the woofer has a second order crossover in the AL and only a first order in the A. Bob Crites sells an AL-3 for the LaScala. If you are going to buy one of his crossovers, I'd call him and explain you're situation and see what he recommends. I've never owned LaScalas, but I have a pair of 40 year old Cornwalls on standby. I re-did the crossovers myself, but they need cosmetic surgery after all this time. If you are going to keep the K77s I would get new diaphragms for them. They are pretty shot after 20+ years. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 19, 2012 13:48:33 GMT -5
Klipsch and Mac used to be a good pairing, as cfelliot notes it could be an 'impedance thing'. Mac's have a great autoformer on the output, and VTL's have a good transformer output. High efficiency and horns take some special care.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2012 15:08:59 GMT -5
Bob Crites sells an AL-3 for the LaScala. If you are going to buy one of his crossovers, I'd call him and explain you're situation and see what he recommends. I did call Mr. Crites, and his recommendation after our discussion was for the type As. ...If you are going to keep the K77s I would get new diaphragms for them. They are pretty shot after 20+ years. You're probably right, but they seem to be doing fine. When they DO finally give out, I'll buy the CT-125 tweeters with the appropriate C/O. Thanks for the info! I appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2012 15:11:44 GMT -5
Klipsch and Mac used to be a good pairing, as cfelliot notes it could be an 'impedance thing'...High efficiency and horns take some special care. Agreed wholeheartedly! I don't know what the impedance curve of the La Scalas is supposed to be, but mine have probably drifted significantly over the 30+ years of use. The crossover's transformers don't drift, but those oil-filled capacitors sure do! Happy weekend! |
|
|
|
Post by REN on Oct 19, 2012 16:06:03 GMT -5
yes if his caps are 30 years old it is defitly time to change them that will make them sound really bad no matter what system u use
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Oct 19, 2012 16:50:27 GMT -5
You know I put a wink at the end right?
Try a tube amp with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Oct 19, 2012 17:58:44 GMT -5
I just can’t resist this last post to this thread.
IMO powering a set of home Klipsch LaScalas which are 103 dB speakers with a 300W amplifier is overkill. It’s akin to dropping a V8 into an old VW bug. The zener diodes that Bromzilla mentions in his current LaScala crossovers was a Klipsch mod in the mid ‘70s to prevent the tweeters from blowing out when people starting using 100W monster amps of the day.
Total Harmonic Distortion and Signal to Noise Ratio are at their worst when an amp is running in the mud. At 80-85dB “normal” listening levels where do you think the “average” output of a XPA-2 is running? Less than a Watt, maybe 1/4W-1/2W? Exactly the point where the amp is running at its worst specs!
I know there are those that think that you can never have enough power. Perhaps this is a case where you can.
|
|
xki
Emo VIPs
Gwack!
Posts: 1,756
|
Post by xki on Oct 19, 2012 19:45:45 GMT -5
The zener diodes that Bromzilla mentions in his current LaScala crossovers was a Klipsch mod in the mid ‘70s to prevent the tweeters from blowing out when people starting using 100W monster amps of the day. Which I had from day 1 in 1972. A Sony at 100 Watts per channel. At 80-85dB “normal” listening levels where do you think the “average” output of a XPA-2 is running? Less than a Watt, maybe 1/4W-1/2W? Exactly the point where the amp is running at its worst specs! Interesting. If that is truly the case, then it would follow that my UPA-2 is exhibiting the same thing. I sort of think that Emo amps, even at very low levels aren't all that bad. My old Macintosh - gone for over 30 years - didn't sound very good at low levels either. Highs were cut and even though the Mac sounded 'warm', the punch was missing. The Mac was an experiment and I still have the original Sony even though the Emo amps blow it away. I know there are those that think that you can never have enough power. Perhaps this is a case where you can. I'm not quite willing to go that far. However, it's food for thought. I drove my La Scalas with 100 watts for over 30 years and never had an issue. Now I have 125 watts per and except for really old cross overs, they still sing. The impedance issues remain with the Klipsch crossovers. BUT.... if an amp really sucks at low output, and that level is what you typically listen at, then maybe that's not the right amp. I'm extremely pleased with my UPA-2 and UPA-7. I've had old friends over who have heard these speakers for 40 years and they say they sound better than ever even with junk caps in the cross overs. I'll give that to Emo. I do know that what the OP posted as a flat sound is what I am hearing. And I've heard that for many years with different amps. I really don't think that it's the amps or the speakers. It's the level. I contemplated the X series amps and decided that the U series would be just fine. And they are. It would be really interesting to audition X series and see if there actually can be too much power for these speakers. Also, I would love to have a couple of tube amps to play with. My memory is not real good from when I had the Mac. It may have been more warm at low levels. I just don't remember. Wish I did. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 19, 2012 19:48:15 GMT -5
A gentleman from another board, arguing in favor of tube amps, sent me the following:
"Remember, a speaker's impedance is not constant through its whole audio range. It is usually much higher at the woofer's resonance and tends to increase again in the treble region.
Tube amps are a current drive source. That means when a speaker's impedance changes the power applied by the amp actually increases when the impedance goes up.
This is the opposite of solid solid state, which works as a voltage drive. When the impedance of the speaker rises it develops less power, so bass and treble tends to be less pronounced or weak to the listener. The audio does not have the same dynamics you get from tubes when driving the same speaker.
Tubes produce a perceived richer bass and enhanced sparkle in the treble region and this is one of the main reasons why people like the sound of tubes because it tends to compensate for the loss of efficiency brought about by the speaker's non-flat impedance curve.
Preamps have no impact on any of this effect."
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 19, 2012 19:49:56 GMT -5
+1 ^^^ good points cfelliot. Too bad the VTLs didn't work out, from the Emo line the upcoming 1L's should be a good match, 30 watts of Class A should be all you'd ever need. Many other nice low power amps around, like bootman said maybe another tube - hey I have a pair do Dyna MK III's I'd sell (60W monoblocks w/6550's) - I think you used to mod Dyna?
Edit: Looks like I missed a couple posts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Oct 19, 2012 19:54:05 GMT -5
You sound like you're just as happy with the UPA's as I am. And, I'm very happy. Like you, I've had a pile of amps on my Klipsch over the years and this is the best they have ever sounded. Either my old Cornwalls or new Heresy IIIs. The only exception might be a MAC 275 tube power amp that I had for a short while on loan while my SAE was being fixed.  |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 20, 2012 11:34:47 GMT -5
Genius! Using those subs as speaker stands is a great idea. Most of the Klipsch Heritage line benefits mightily from a subwoofer IMHO. The only exceptions might be the K-Horns and the Cornwalls. Everything else is just transformed with a good sub. Cheers - Boomzilla |
|
|
|
Post by Golden Ear on Oct 25, 2012 11:37:23 GMT -5
I think what you can do is to replace your source to a warm sounding unit and you will hear the difference. When I have XDA, UPA, USP all those 3 combination, I don't get good synergy on my system. However, having UPA, USP, Marantz (source) the sound is just breathtaking. Now, when I have Marantz across the board, it just too dull to my taste as if there is a blanket covering the speaker. Proper matching gear is critical to get the sound right and you need to experiment.
|
|
|
|
Post by carolinaaudiofile on Oct 27, 2012 13:19:50 GMT -5
I am one of the members with Klipsch and Emo amps. I have a pair of UPA-1's driving my Klipsch RF-7's and an XPA-5 driving my 5 Proficient Audio C1030 ceiling LCR speakers and they sound amazing! Panasonic TC-P65S2 65" 1080P plasma Onkyo PR-SC5508 9.2 channel preamp/processor Klipsch RF-7 main speakers X 2 Proficient Audio C1030 LCR speakers X 5 Velodyne EQ-Max 15" powered sub X 2 VTI HGR 404 equipment rack Emotiva UPA-1 x 2 Emotiva XPA-5 x 1 Emotiva RCA interconnects Emotiva CMX-6 power strip for amps and processor Logitech Harmony 1100 remote Monster HT-160 power conditioner for all other devices Sony PS3 320GB for Blu-ray player Motorola HD-DVR Gateway slim PC to run XBMC to play FLAC encoded music through system IPAD 3 to run XBMC commander app to act as a remote interface to my music                      |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Oct 27, 2012 18:05:30 GMT -5
I've tried a tube/solid-state hybrid (16.5 wpc), the Qinpu A-6000 Mk. II. Although it would be breathtaking sound for most "normal" speakers, it just doesn't light up the La Scalas like the VTL Compact 100 mono blocks. I think I'll be returning the Qinpu & do without a preamp until my XSP-1 arrives.
|
|
|
|
Post by sharkman on Oct 28, 2012 11:16:05 GMT -5
Nice system Carolina! But I suspect that the Onkyo you have running the show is tuning the sound so that your speakers sound as good as they do. In my 2 channel system, there is no processing or Audyysey. Perhaps if I did have this I wouldn't have found fault with my XPA-3.
|
|
|
|
Post by carolinaaudiofile on Oct 28, 2012 14:43:23 GMT -5
Nice system Carolina! But I suspect that the Onkyo you have running the show is tuning the sound so that your speakers sound as good as they do. In my 2 channel system, there is no processing or Audyysey. Perhaps if I did have this I wouldn't have found fault with my XPA-3. Thanks so much!! I do believe the Onkyo is playing a big part in that. |
|
