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Post by yves on Jul 6, 2013 17:45:23 GMT -5
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jul 7, 2013 0:29:25 GMT -5
Was thinking about that but I've read this about JRiver: Please purchase from the Help menu inside the program when you're ready. You have 30 days to decide. The trial version has the full feature set. Still using the free trial. I'd pop over to their forums and ask about dsd. There are lots of helpful people over there. |
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Post by yves on Jul 16, 2013 12:07:14 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 5:25:59 GMT -5
The USB data signal itself is differential, but you still have to tie the ground of the computer to the ground of the DAC ... The answer is simply to totally isolate the USB connection (this means data isolation AND totally isolated power - INCLUDING THE GROUND). Fortunately, this isn't nearly as big a deal as it sounds. There are a bunch of "USB galvanic isolators" out there. (I use one by www.electronics-shop.dk that costs about $40 ... I have seen huge improvements in the noise floor with several USB-powered DACs with this gadget, and I consider it sort of a "must have in the tool box". ... I have the XDA-2, it works fine and sounds good, but could the isolator above make it even better? Though the Emo DAC is not USB-powered, it still is connected to the PC of course. And could the www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html , IFI iUSB (with or without the IFI Gemini USB cable) be of any use? Some on the net says so, but it could be placebo. And would the ifi and the isolator be good together, or maybe mutually exclusive? I am not asking if it abolutely improves, merely if it at all possible. At least the isolator above is rather cheap, so even a small improvement could make it worthwhile. |
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Post by kenj on Sept 12, 2013 20:59:15 GMT -5
I am thinking of waiting for the XMC-1 so I can use it's USB DAC, switching and room correction. For now I'll keep using SPDIF from soundcard to Emotiva DMC-1. I play DSD stereo conversion on the fly to PCM but can't get MC. I am thinking of buying the Oppo 103 saving $700 towards XMC-1. While oppo plays DSD w/o USB DAC support it's really only of interest for downloads. When I have the SACD it seems just as easy to play the disk. I wish I could play MC DSD with JRiver.
I will connect the oppo 103 with 8 analog out cables for HD movie sound until XMC-1 comes out.
I was originally thinking of the 105 but no longer see the extra value vs 103 if I buy an XMC-1
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Post by danny01 on Oct 20, 2013 2:48:40 GMT -5
On the DC-1, does anyone know if it is only the AES/EBU that is galvanically isolated?
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MikeWI
Emo VIPs 
DC-1, ERC-1, USP-1, UPA-2, Sub 10, Emotiva 4S
Posts: 346
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Post by MikeWI on Oct 23, 2013 15:42:38 GMT -5
USB audio is a popular, yet somewhat complicated, subject - and it is still evolving. Some DACs require drivers while others don't. Most computers can play 16/44 audio without any problems, but many, even some quite powerful ones, have problems playing higher-resolution files without dropouts and other issues. There are all sorts of choices and options, but the right ones aren't always obvious, and some combinations and options are still works-in-progress. In this thread we're going to try to cover three different things: 1) General information about USB audio - how it works and the state of the art. 2) Specific information about the USB input options on various Emotiva DACs, which ones require drivers on which computers, and how to configure your computer to get the best performance from your Emotiva DAC. 3) Advice and suggestions about what hardware to choose, and how to set it up, to create a dedicated computer-based audio system. Even though I've titled this thread "USB Audio", other types of computer connections (like optical and coax) are also fair game..... as long as one end is connected to a computer. Likewise, discussion of connecting a computer to a pre/pro is also welcome here. I'm starting on page 1 (of 9 so far). Is there an Emotiva USB Audio FAQ that can be closed and modified by the admin with a consolidated summary of general and Emotiva specific frequently asked questions (FAQ)? I think that would be extremely helpful as an index for common questions about: - setup - USB vs other inputs - synchronous vs asynchronous - jitter - cables - XDA-1 / -2 / DC-1 similarities and differences - Windows and software differences Thanks, Mike |
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MikeWI
Emo VIPs
DC-1, ERC-1, USP-1, UPA-2, Sub 10, Emotiva 4S
Posts: 346
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Post by MikeWI on Oct 23, 2013 16:00:52 GMT -5
Can you remind me why using Windows volume control is bad? It's convenient, and in my case I need to use the balance for unequally spaced speakers in my office environment. Thanks Mike (bold added) You should check your software settings and make sure that it's not set to re-sample anywhere, and avoid using the software volume controls anywhere in Windows (that includes both the player and Windows itself). It's also possible that you're hearing the UMC-1 itself. The UMC-1 sounds very good for a pre/pro, but going through a separate DAC (like an XDA) and into the Analog Direct inputs does sound noticeably better. Yves, I have Realtek HD Audio with a coax output set for 24/192 output to my UMC-1, which indicates that is what it is receiving. It sounds pretty good, especially in the bass, but a bit tinty/harsh on the high end. Is there something else I should be doing to maximize the SQ? |
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Post by audiosanity on Jan 6, 2014 19:47:17 GMT -5
I am considering the xda2. What is the best connection to use to get files from my computer. I am not familiar with some of the options. I have Mac & PC. Also is there a good way to do wireless or better to connect directly? Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread until now. I had been struggling with the issues discussed here for a while, until I pulled the trigger and ordered an XDA-2/XPA-200 combo a couple of days ago. My solution was extremely simple: DUMP the computer, as I think it makes for a terrible and expensive middleman between your music files and your DAC input. Windows has all these daemons (called services in Wonblowspeak?) that initiate actions at inopportune times, software that launch updates, antivirus program that work when you don't want them to, etc/, that can all cause digital output rate drops. Plus, I use my laptops for work, and I don't want to carry all my music on them. The solution I came up with, and I am sure many others have as well, is to use a streaming type blu-ray player and a plain old portable USB hard drive. Nowadays, most blu-ray players can stream audio/video from the internet and from USB devices such as flash drives and hard drives, with no gigantic Winblows OS disrupting the very simple process of reading bits from a drive and sending them out. Such blu-ray players can be had for well under $100, doubling as CD/DVD transports, and you can easily get 1TB drives for under $80. You can get the whole system for $150-200. Well, at least this is my plan. I'll soon find out how many pitfalls I didn't anticipate  |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,090
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Post by klinemj on Jan 6, 2014 19:57:24 GMT -5
Let us know how streaming via bluray works out. It didn't for me w/the oppo105 due to the lousy interface. JRiver via PC has been fantastic...no issues w/Windows causing any issues at all. In fact, it gives me many advantages, including web surfing while listening to tunes.
Mark
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 20:03:34 GMT -5
First off, a suggestion. I think it would be cool if at the next Emofest tech day if there could be a seminar on USB audio. I just received my XDA-2 on Monday and over Monday and Tuesday I gave it a go trying out the optical connection then doing A-B comparisons of of a CD, CD player as the DAC vs. the XDA as the DAC. I also spent some time trying out the USB audio vs playing the same tracks using the CD with the XDA as the vs. USB audio via the XDA-2. I was able to do USB audio without any driver updates on two different laptop that I have running the Linux Mint operating system (one is a netbook, and the other is a low end celeron based dual CPU laptop). In my first serious A-B comparison I was running tracks of the Door Greatest Hits 2 CD set vs FLAC files I created of theses CD's a couple of years ago. I first used VLC as the media player. With the media player set to 100% and the XDA-2 set to 0.00 I was able to match levels with the CD player (with the XDA-2 as DAC) straight away. I could tell no difference is the levels and no difference in the music. That left me with a good impression on the potential of USB audio. I then tried A-B comparisons of the CD player (using the XDA-2) as DAC vs XBMC on the laptop via USB audio. I could not match level via XBMC as readily, but I found the sound I was getting was better using XBMC as the player. I am not sure if XBMC is doing any thing to the music or not, or it was just be a level matching issue. Even so, with my short time in USB audio I can see the potential of being able to tweak your setup to get great sound. I am guessing with the right media player you can equalize the output the media player if you need to tweak the sound for your speakers. Of course I could be wrong. My thoughts about a USB seminar at Emofest would be addressing basic concepts of setting levels in the XDA-2, levels on the computer/media player, what if any issues there are with equalization in playing music via USB audio. I also found a Linux distribution Audiophile Linux ( www.ap-linux.com/) that is geared to USB audio. I have not tried this distro yet, but it looks promising for setting up an older laptop to dedicate for USB audio. |
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Post by Davecski65 on Jan 19, 2014 15:20:28 GMT -5
Dumb Question Here,,How come the DC-1 doesn't have USB3.0 as this is supposed to be the fastest transfer rate next too esata?My computer has USB 3.0,but I have to use the slower USB 2.0 to run my files to the DC-1.Wont it be better to have the faster transfer rates? or is there something I am missing?
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Post by garbulky on Jan 19, 2014 16:30:50 GMT -5
Dumb Question Here,,How come the DC-1 doesn't have USB3.0 as this is supposed to be the fastest transfer rate next too esata?My computer has USB 3.0,but I have to use the slower USB 2.0 to run my files to the DC-1.Wont it be better to have the faster transfer rates? or is there something I am missing? What you're missing is that the music does not become better with unneeded extra bandwidth. It only needs enough bandwith to transmit 24 bit 192 khz files which USB 2 does. I used USB 1.0 audio with my XDA-1 for years till I got my SPDIF working. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jan 20, 2014 0:16:18 GMT -5
Exactly... And both sides of the equation need to support the higher data rate for it to work.
That being said, with extra bandwidth, one could pass additional information to ensure that there weren't any possibility for error.
I really would like to see a proper test measuring the output after ASRC between two different USB cables... People often claim to hear differences, but this seems like it is testable in an objective manner.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 0:54:47 GMT -5
I am considering the xda2. What is the best connection to use to get files from my computer. I am not familiar with some of the options. I have Mac & PC. Also is there a good way to do wireless or better to connect directly? Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread until now. I had been struggling with the issues discussed here for a while, until I pulled the trigger and ordered an XDA-2/XPA-200 combo a couple of days ago. My solution was extremely simple: DUMP the computer, as I think it makes for a terrible and expensive middleman between your music files and your DAC input. Windows has all these daemons (called services in Wonblowspeak?) that initiate actions at inopportune times, software that launch updates, antivirus program that work when you don't want them to, etc/, that can all cause digital output rate drops. Plus, I use my laptops for work, and I don't want to carry all my music on them. The solution I came up with, and I am sure many others have as well, is to use a streaming type blu-ray player and a plain old portable USB hard drive. Nowadays, most blu-ray players can stream audio/video from the internet and from USB devices such as flash drives and hard drives, with no gigantic Winblows OS disrupting the very simple process of reading bits from a drive and sending them out. Such blu-ray players can be had for well under $100, doubling as CD/DVD transports, and you can easily get 1TB drives for under $80. You can get the whole system for $150-200. Well, at least this is my plan. I'll soon find out how many pitfalls I didn't anticipate I find no problems running my Samsung with Win 7 Premium and various players (haven't settled yet they all have good and bad points) BUT what I don't do is have the laptop connected to the internet - never will for this particular beast. I run bare bones services and only ever use it as a music source. The thing is that I find any other option waaaaay too hard to read/manipulate as a useful interface (i.e. they're too small, too big, buggy, truncated, scroll past only, jiggle/bob around and such), I like to be able to see a file/album in relation to a genre/collection very quickly - the computer GUI does this very well, be it PC or Mac. In vinyl terms I find the other interfaces are like having only 1 single visible slot to see through to find LPS in a collection - very slow and frustrating. Having said all that I admit, even with services being halted/tweeked there is way too much going on that we don't need. Any company that produces a cross between a tablet screen and laptop size hard drive and functionality with USB, and 24/192 playability (maybe plus streaming...) will be onto a winner. Santa, maybe this year - if I'm good??? |
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Leif
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by Leif on Feb 8, 2014 16:45:10 GMT -5
Actually, there is one other thing you should check out...... The USB data signal itself is differential, but you still have to tie the ground of the computer to the ground of the DAC (you can't just float things entirely). Having a good clean power supply is good, and it sometimes helps, but sometimes noise comes in through the ground. (The grounds on computers are notoriously noisy - because of all the high frequency current that they dump through their ground connection. The result is that, when you connect the computer's ground to the ground on your stereo, that noise ends up either as a difference between the grounds - which gets added to the signal going between them, or it actually modulates the ground on your other equipment - which causes an increase in noise floor elsewhere.) DACs with their own power source tend to be better in this regard, but some of them still have problems with it. The answer is simply to totally isolate the USB connection (this means data isolation AND totally isolated power - INCLUDING THE GROUND). Fortunately, this isn't nearly as big a deal as it sounds. There are a bunch of "USB galvanic isolators" out there. (I use one by www.electronics-shop.dk that costs about $40, but ther are plenty of others; most of them use the Analog Devices ADUM series isolator and matching power supply chip.) Be SURE and get one that supports "Full Speed USB 12 mbps". These actually have a tiny isolated switching power supply for the USB circuitry. Unlike filtered hubs, and fancy power supplies, BOTH the data and the power - including the ground - are isolated completely. I would expect the downside of these to be increased jitter - but, as long as your DAC doesn't care about that, who cares. ... Keith -- slightly different issue. This has been mentioned on another Emo board too. In some cases there is slight electronic hiss observed through the DC-1. In my case I'm running the USB cable supplied with the DC-1 from Apple Mini (late 2013 / mavericks) plus I'm using the power cord that came with the DC-1 plus have swapped an Emotiva x-series shielded power -- slight hiss still remains. I've disconnected from computer entirely and plugged into another outlet (new construction home -- good quality wiring -- no other electronics on the outlet or series) without anything put power to the DC-1 and still gotten slight hiss. I believe this may be caused a build up of static electricity because when taken to another part of the home w/no carpet there is no hiss. Also, when re-connected in the room above garage (full carpet) the hiss returns. However, after listening for awhile the hiss dissipates. Interestingly, when I stop listening but leave DC-1 and computer on, after about three minutes or so, the hiss starts to creep back in. Could it be that the electrical signal moving thru the USB conx is "attracting" a build up of static? In this case would the galvanic isolator solve this issue? |
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mz
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 6
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Post by mz on Feb 13, 2014 12:35:58 GMT -5
Wanted to share my experience with Emotiva XDA-2. I have recently bought it to connect my HTPC to amplifier, so I was mainly trying to use USB out. I use early 2009 mac mini as my HTPC and I run OS X and bootcamp to windows 7. Here is the issues I had and some solutions:
1. Drivers for windows. Emotiva provided drivers do not support WASAPI event mode, which is used by my main media player programs: XBMC and Plex. So with these drivers one has to use DirectSound instead of WASAPI and "bit perfect" payback is not possible. Fortunately, this is easy to resolve by installing latest c-media drivers, which do support WASAPI event mode. C-media does not provide drivers for end users, so one has to find an OEM which is proactive enough to post the latest stuff. I used Schiit provided drivers, but there are many others floating around.
It would be nice if Emotiva actually posted the latest stuff on its product page, would save me and others like me a ton of time. Drivers I've installed from Schiit website are one year old, so we are not talking about lighting fast reaction time here.
2. 176 kHz sampling rate. It's not supported through USB. Probably an old news for you, but I did not know it when I bought the DAC. More than one year had passed, since support for 176 kHz has been removed and no fix to firmware, so one can assume this will never get fixed.
I'd rather have information about supported sampling rates displayed prominently on the product page. For DC-1 there is a nice table with all rates and different OSes, for XDA-2 theres is only a vague statement that supported rates vary by OS or something. 176 is not specifically mentioned at all.
3. Main issue with MAC hardware and XDA's USB incompatibility. Issue manifest itself when you switch off the DAC, but leave the computer running. After you power on the DAC , its recognized by computer as a USB 1 device. You can see that supported sampling rates only have 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz - you can also see that DAC is attached to slow USB root hub - I will not go into details on how to check it b/c it varies by OS.
When using the most recent c-media drivers with windows7 you will also get a pop up with a “this device can perform faster” message. This issue happens with mac mini, running either OS X or Windows, also happened with my firend's mac. Does not happen with 2 other PCs in my house. If you unplug and replug the USB cord everything goes back to normal.
This behavior prevents me from using HTPC using the remote. What I usually do is to switch the TV and Audio system off, leaving the computer running (it has some server components). Next time when you power the system on you'd hear no sound at all, the only fix is to unplug and replug the usb cable. I tried to call Emotiva tech support , but they were not able to help.
I'm using another workaround now. I have downloaded DevCon.exe from Windows Driver Kit, which allows you reset the USB device, so it can be properly recognized as USB 2.0. I have to reset the device each time I power on the DAC.
Quick search on this board shows that I'm not alone with this issue. Is Emotiva aware of it? Are they trying to find a solution ? At a minimum devcon workaround should be implemented in the driver. Better yet to find what is wrong with USB handshake, during the powerup.
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mz
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 6
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Post by mz on Feb 20, 2014 16:39:51 GMT -5
I've found a better workaround for MAC USB compatibility issue. I'm connecting mac to passive usb hub and than to DAC (Belkin USB 2.0 from Amazon), it seems to resolve incompatibility.
I've also found the following post on diyaudio, looks like exactly the issue with my DAC, probably applies to DC-1 and upcoming XMC-1.
It would be nice to hear from Emotiva if they are using any type of force reset chip in their DACs USB circuitry or they rely on self-reset.
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dvzzz
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by dvzzz on Mar 21, 2014 23:26:49 GMT -5
Why Emotiva is not providing new QA'ed C-Media drivers with correct handling of WASAPI? I have used the "older" drivers to get WASAPI but my HTPC bluescreens on the wake from sleep. I just cannot for the life of me figure out why Schiit offers new drivers but Emotiva refuses to QA new C-Media drivers and optimize them for the XDA-2. This is a decent DAC that has potential to be stable but all I am reading is an advise to use USB to SPDIF converters to be stable. USB is a good way to do it... What is also interesting that most XDA-2 users just leave USB interface out of their experience, because OEM cannot address quality issues. Really hope Emotiva is listening. XDA-3 should not be worked on until faith is restored by stabilizing XDA-2 USB... I am ready for the flame or ignore but issue do remain - USB drivers cause BSOD.
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Post by eyeba11kid on Apr 22, 2014 15:57:12 GMT -5
I am almost embarrassed to post this after so much discussion about USB to DAC connectivity.
I have recently received a DC-1 and connected that via USB to my new Macbook Pro Retina running OSX mavericks. When playing hi-res audio (from HDtracks - Mavin Gaye What's going on in AIFF) from iTunes (192/24) the DC-1 initially showed 44/16. As expected this is what what the MBP down-sampled to. In the the MIDI audio setup I have attempted to set the resample to 192/24 but the highest choice I have is 96/24. When playing the hi-rez file it does say 96khz on the DC-1.
The MBP recognizes the the DC-1 on the device list as a USB external Speaker.
So what am i missing? Is the MCB not recognizing the full range of the DC-1 (driver issue?). Is it a MBP USB limitation? Would a optical out to topslink help this?
I have see a lot of talk here but any answers/insight would be great
Thanks in advance
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