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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 2:18:49 GMT -5
In my post I mentioned it was the best sounding amp for my system in my opinion. Everyone has different listening taste. I could care less about spls, it was about sound quality. If you know anything about speakers, its not about watts, its about current. Alot of speakers can demand alot of current on transient peaks. An XPA2 could drive a pair of 802 diamonds just fine. The xpr2 would do a better job of it because it can provide more current when that speaker impedence drop to 3 ohms during transit peaks. Thats when you will hear the different between the 2 amps. About the spls I was responding to other's posts, not your post directly, I too place a high value on sound quality. It's why I ended up replacing my XPA amp with the Halo amp. The amp design is by the legend, John Curl, and believe me it didn't disappoint. The A21 provides 60 amps of current per channel, has high bias class A and has no capacitors or inductors in the signal path. Not sure about the XPA-2. Like I said, to each their own though. Some will play the watts game and think they need 5 or 600 watts. |
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs 
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 5, 2013 6:06:37 GMT -5
I have had bryston and classe in my system in the last 4 months. Bryston 4bsst2 c series 2 channel and bryston 5bst 3 channel. I have had classe ca 151 and classe cav180. I just was never happy with the sound of my system. Long story short, I orded the xpr2 and xpr5 to just try out and was not expecting anything. Actually thought I would ship them back before the 30 days was up. my xpr 5 arrived and and emo will be staying. My system has never sounded better. I am awaiting my xpr2 to ship on the 10th. Was able to sell my bryston for more than it cost for both the xpr2 and xpr 5. If you are interested in parasound, bryston, or whoever, I suggest demoing them in your system. I did. I had all three brands in my house at the same time and when using the emo, I felt it was the best sounding amp for me. I have it paired with an odyssey candela tube preamp for 2 channel playback and its steller. Hearing was believing for me and I am a believer in the xpr series. Can't wait for my xpr2 to ship. here is my system below with the brystons and a pic of the new xpr5. And another guy will compare several high end amps with the XPR series and prefer something else. It's why there are so many brands out there I suppose, and why I love this hobby! If people want to hit peaks of 105db at their seating area, then do what you gotta do. I find 90db pretty loud and 100 uncomfortable with my system. It saves me money and space in my rack too, so what do I know.  If you visit some of the better acoustics and speaker (-building) threads on the internet, you will find that it's mostly not the loudness an sich (ie, "as such") that's uncomfortable, but the distortion that occurs when playing very loud. We went to see The Hobbit in Dolby® Atmos™ surround last week and besides the obvious panning and hemispherical quality of the system, the overall sound quality struck me as the best I ever heard... in a cinema. I am used to that SQ at my house. What caused that improvement is IMO that more speakers (five full range behind the screen vs three and those nearest to the screen surrounds also helped during combat butchering scenes between Dwarfs and Orks...) will distort less when playing reference level at the listeners position. That's a fine example of "more is less" More speaker/power = less distortionI am not saying we should get five LCR speakers. But take a look at JBL's cinema speakers's specs and it's obvious that these are tipically used near their max SPL during peaks (we loose 28 dB when comparing SPL @ 1 meter vs 25 meter) easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/decibels-distance.phpwww.jblpro.com/products/cinema/index.html |
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sorbe
Sensei
"Don't cross the streams..."
Posts: 673
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Post by sorbe on Jan 5, 2013 6:58:59 GMT -5
This ^^ -- 11.2 for the win.  |
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Post by bolle on Jan 5, 2013 7:15:01 GMT -5
I personally didn´t like the sound of the Parasound HCA amps. Sounded a little bit "woody" to me, not musical. Of course they have power...
I also have to agree with Dan Laufman - you almost never can have enough power. Back in my active Car-Hifi highend SQ days, we sometimes did measure current draw while listening. No db drag, just listenening to quite loud music. With a fully active 4-way stereo system, you easily got over 100 amps at 12V, often peaking at 150 or 160 amps. That´s 1200 to 1800 watts of used peak power for only a 2-channel 4-way system!
In my SQ competition car (also 4-way fully active), I user over 200 watts of amplification for every tweeter, midrange and bass driver and about 450 watts for every subwoofer. Even if we judge between 74 and 84dB at the drivers seat, you notice the power difference in soundquality!
Now imagine a 5-channel system at home in a much larger listening environment with passive crossover...
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Post by ocezam on Jan 5, 2013 9:06:47 GMT -5
This ^^ -- 11.2 for the win. Yeah Audyssey DSX and it's competitor 11 channel DSP/codec, DTS Neo X, are the bomb in my opinion. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 5, 2013 9:10:47 GMT -5
Blah, blah, blah, buy a *massive* amp, blah, blah, blah. I see this type of recommendation way too much on this forum. If you can't get the job done in the typical American home with 250 watts/ch., there is something seriously wrong with your equipment choices and/or your hearing. IMHO, of course. And, BTW, 105 db is *loud*... I bolded your last statement. I think that get's completely ignored by most people. I've analyzed a number of Dolby Digital tracks and looked at individual channels. Many times it's not even 85, sometimes closer to 75 on the LCRs, and even less on the surrounds. (OK, so I looked at RMS, Peak RMS, Peak, and more). You might have surrounds that sit idle for most of the movie, then have some low level effects, and then a 90-100db split second noise. And the LCRs will have more energy throughout, but the 100+ peaks are very rare. The whole point is that they ARE there and they need the power. Highly compressed content at a lower SPL can sound *louder* than a noise with a peak SPL many db higher. Yes, 105 is loud. But generally it's loud for a *fraction* of a second, just like real life. And you need 100x the power at 105db than at 85 (1000x if you're going up 30db). I associate the dynamic range capabilities with quality.. If power capabilities are over-rated, then I'm not sure why some of the best sounding systems err on the side of higher wattage. ...rant over. |
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Post by jhayman on Jan 5, 2013 9:36:24 GMT -5
I have had bryston and classe in my system in the last 4 months. Bryston 4bsst2 c series 2 channel and bryston 5bst 3 channel. I have had classe ca 151 and classe cav180. I just was never happy with the sound of my system. Long story short, I orded the xpr2 and xpr5 to just try out and was not expecting anything. Actually thought I would ship them back before the 30 days was up. my xpr 5 arrived and and emo will be staying. My system has never sounded better. I am awaiting my xpr2 to ship on the 10th. Was able to sell my bryston for more than it cost for both the xpr2 and xpr 5. If you are interested in parasound, bryston, or whoever, I suggest demoing them in your system. I did. I had all three brands in my house at the same time and when using the emo, I felt it was the best sounding amp for me. I have it paired with an odyssey candela tube preamp for 2 channel playback and its steller. Hearing was believing for me and I am a believer in the xpr series. Can't wait for my xpr2 to ship. here is my system below with the brystons and a pic of the new xpr5. I'm in love with your system Derrellb.. I've been eyeing the MA GX300's for a month now I've heard them in a store and they were powered by a Bryston can't remember model, but I thought they sounded Amazing.. Anyway how do you like your MA's I'm seriously considering them as my next big ticket item real soon.. Thanks |
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Post by ocezam on Jan 5, 2013 9:43:34 GMT -5
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Post by audiohead on Jan 5, 2013 9:57:05 GMT -5
A21 with the hood off.1.2KVA,1,100 Damping.and 100,000 of UF's.$2,299.00. Attachments:
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Post by audiohead on Jan 5, 2013 9:58:04 GMT -5
XPR-2 with the hood off...2.5 KVA,Damping 1,000 and 240,000 of Uf's.$1449.00 Attachments:
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Post by audiohead on Jan 5, 2013 10:33:18 GMT -5
Now which amp is the better "Value"? I guess its all in what you want in a amp.I am sure both would do well in a two channel set up and looking at the built of the two,the power supply,ufs,damping and so on.But even I have too say the "Value" of the two is on the Emotivas side.I would have too have both amps in my home side by side about two weeks to really say which amp is the better "Value"There is $800.00 bucks between the two and that's a lot of money too some people.I would like too see or hear for myself which one is the better "Value" Big Dans new Amps sure are turning heads.There is a Forum on this very thing about which Amp is better and in that Forum as most of you guys know there are about a handful who knock EMO amps just because well there EMO amps and they have Never heard one of Big Dans new amps.They even make fun of EMO amps just because "Clowns" I say.Big Dan I would like one day too see your new XPR amps go side by side up one of the "Highend" amps I would bet my last dollar that your XPR's would "best" most of the so called "Highend" amps out there.Well most if not all of us Don't have $10,000.00 to see if that "Highend" amp is a better "Value"$10,000.00 on a amp?Thats just insane in my book.
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 10:56:30 GMT -5
Well Audio, if you want an XPR, get an XPR, you don't need to prove anything here. It has more watts, more caps and less price as you say.
But it's simply not for everyone. People have been saying don't worry about the 20 amp circuit requirement, you'll never need all 20 amps. Then for me, why should I buy an amp when I'm buying some watts I'll never use? It's not about money or saving money for me. I'd buy a Bryston if I was convinced it was the best thing out there.
With my 2 channel system, I listen at mostly under 85 db. That's it, and from what I've read many others do so too(many others also go way above that). That means with 91 sens. speakers I'm using a couple of watts at my listening area. That's it. I simply don't need 500 or 600 or 1000 watts per side. I had an XPA amp, and the sound had sibilance with my speakers. So Emotiva had nothing else for me, and I wasn't going to change my $6000 speakers and keep a $600 amp.
YMMV.
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Post by audiohead on Jan 5, 2013 11:07:58 GMT -5
Sharkman,..wasn't trying to prove anything on the two amps just posted this too help people out thats all, but I feel the same as you I don't need 600 or even a 1000 watts I know as you do theres more too the watt game then meets the "ear"In my post I stated that 800 bucks is a lot of money too some not too me its not.I totally agree with your post I don't go pass 90dbs much at all my ears hurt with my lil monoblocks, yeah I feel you on the "sibilance" its the main reason I will upgrade too a A21 soon.Its a choice.Nothing more nothing less.  |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 11:21:35 GMT -5
BTW, FWIW, the Parasound A21 and the Parasound JC1s are NOT fully balanced amplifier designs. They are both single-ended designs although they sport balanced connectors.
The Emotiva XPA1s and the XPR-1s amplifiers are both fully balanced amplifier designs all the way internally through, from the input to the output.
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 11:42:56 GMT -5
It's an interesting comparison. The Halo amps have something called signal sensing as well as 12 volt triggers. They'll turn on when a music signal is played or a 12 volt signal if you prefer. They also have a gain knob for each channel, a ground lifting switch, and the JC-1 has a low/high bias switch and a knob to select delay time when powering up. It's also rated for 2 ohms output.
The A21 also has RCA outputs for another amp should you need it, though it's not specifically rated for 2 ohms. But no, they are not balanced designs.
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 12:12:58 GMT -5
As most are aware, the Emotiva XPA-1-L (not in production yet), the baby brother to the XPA-1, will be a fully balanced design just like the fully balanced design of the XPR-1 and XPA-1 amp. It should be a sweet amp especially for those who desire less wattage. I believe the XPA-1-L may put out like 250w into 8 ohms and 500w into 4 ohms.
The XPA-1-L will be a Class A/B design but it is said to provide 30 watts of Class A power, if desired by the user to operate that way.
As most know, Class A generates less efficiency and more heat...
On the XPR series, Emotiva took a Class A/B design one step further with the switching "H" power supply to make the amp even more efficient. Basically, an even more efficient design over A/B with more energy/power versus heat generated like a Class A design.
The verdict is still out for me on the SQ difference between a Class A/B with a "H" switching power supply and Class A.
I've got set of XPR-1s coming....
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Post by Porscheguy on Jan 5, 2013 12:42:12 GMT -5
I think Parasound makes great stuff, but I think it is no better than the Emo amps..
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Post by derrellb on Jan 5, 2013 12:46:13 GMT -5
I have had bryston and classe in my system in the last 4 months. Bryston 4bsst2 c series 2 channel and bryston 5bst 3 channel. I have had classe ca 151 and classe cav180. I just was never happy with the sound of my system. Long story short, I orded the xpr2 and xpr5 to just try out and was not expecting anything. Actually thought I would ship them back before the 30 days was up. my xpr 5 arrived and and emo will be staying. My system has never sounded better. I am awaiting my xpr2 to ship on the 10th. Was able to sell my bryston for more than it cost for both the xpr2 and xpr 5. If you are interested in parasound, bryston, or whoever, I suggest demoing them in your system. I did. I had all three brands in my house at the same time and when using the emo, I felt it was the best sounding amp for me. I have it paired with an odyssey candela tube preamp for 2 channel playback and its steller. Hearing was believing for me and I am a believer in the xpr series. Can't wait for my xpr2 to ship. here is my system below with the brystons and a pic of the new xpr5. I'm in love with your system Derrellb.. I've been eyeing the MA GX300's for a month now I've heard them in a store and they were powered by a Bryston can't remember model, but I thought they sounded Amazing.. Anyway how do you like your MA's I'm seriously considering them as my next big ticket item real soon.. Thanks I love them. I will be honest, that ribbon tweeter was hard to tame and find the right combination. For movies it was great, but for music I needed warmth in the chain. I am now using a tube preamp for 2 channel playback. Enjoying that sound. If you are strictly movies, your yamaha/emo combination should be very dynamic with them. But if you are into music as well, I sugguest adding some warmth in the chain. Thanks again for the compliment. |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 12:50:55 GMT -5
I think Parasound makes great stuff, but I think it is no better than the Emo amps.. Twenty years ago, I got into separate components thus graduating from receivers. At that time, that was all I could afford was Adcom. Twenty years later I CAN afford Bryston and Parasound. Guess what, I buy Emotiva!-- I don't care what other people think. I'm happy with it. That's what counts. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Jan 5, 2013 12:55:18 GMT -5
I think Parasound makes great stuff, but I think it is no better than the Emo amps.. Twenty years ago, I got into separate components thus graduating from receivers. At that time, that was all I could afford was Adcom. Twenty years later I CAN afford Bryston and Parasound. Guess what, I buy Emotiva!-- I don't care what other people think. I'm happy with it. That's what counts. It's a good choice. I wish some publication would have the gonads to have an amp shootout with all these amps, including the $36,000 Krell 900E mono blocs... It will never happen though....  |
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