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Post by creimes on Jan 5, 2013 12:56:08 GMT -5
I totally agree I could care less about having the huge amount of power in the XPR I'm more hoping it has the best sound and build quality. We believe that the XPR series amplifiers set a new benchmark in SQ, technical performance, power, reliability, and of course... Value. And may I respectfully disagree with you on the subject of power. With high quality, minimally compressed program material, you will be astounded by how much peak power your speakers can really utilize, and by the transformational nature of the listening experience that ensues when your system in no longer constrained by limited dynamic headroom. We welcome comparison. Take the top off of an XPR and directly compare its build quality and attention to detail with any comparable product that costs 2-4 times its price. Set aside your prejudices and pre-conceived notions of hi end value and performance. We believe you'll be convinced. Happy listening, Big Dan Exactly Zetec the power of an amplifier is only part of the equation |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 13:04:43 GMT -5
Twenty years ago, I got into separate components thus graduating from receivers. At that time, that was all I could afford was Adcom. Twenty years later I CAN afford Bryston and Parasound. Guess what, I buy Emotiva!-- I don't care what other people think. I'm happy with it. That's what counts. It's a good choice. I wish some publication would have the gonads to have an amp shootout with all these amps, including the $36,000 Krell 900E mono blocs... It will never happen though....  It's about audio politics, and of course, money. I don't think that will ever change. What's important is the ability to believe in yourself and your own ability to discern. With Emotiva's in-home 30-day trial period, what's there really to loose.--Maybe just return shipping costs, although I feel that the opportunity itself is worth the risk.-- I haven't been disappointed yet! |
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Post by Porscheguy on Jan 5, 2013 13:22:24 GMT -5
The only downside to good A or AB power amps is weight. Wouldn't it be great if they could sort out class D and make a super sounding 300 wpc amp (I know some say they have) that weighs 25 lbs..
Buying and retuning would be a lot easier!!
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 13:50:33 GMT -5
Yes, a Class D amp would be a much painless transaction to return
I've read about them but I guess I'm old fashioned.
I'm open to new ideas so not to say I won't ever try Class D. I just don't think it's quite there yet.
It will not surprise me if someday the amps I currently own are considered like dinosaurs. At that time, I suppose I'll have some new boat anchors.--- Swoosh!
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Post by Dan Laufman on Jan 5, 2013 14:01:22 GMT -5
Agreed! It's all about headroom!!
This isn't about how loud it can play.
I'm glad you are loving your new XPR! ;D
Cheers,
Big Dan
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 14:10:23 GMT -5
Mr. Big Dan: Thanks, but I don't have my XPR-1s just yet--shipping on Jan 10th. Bummer.-- I'm having surgery on my right hand for carpal tunnel on Jan 10th and I'm right handed. Had my pre-op this past Thursday. Doc said no lifting post surgery for a few days, not even 113 lb boxes! Class D: www.ultrahighendreview.com/anthem-statement-m1-amplifier/ |
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 5, 2013 14:13:30 GMT -5
Twenty years ago, I got into separate components thus graduating from receivers. At that time, that was all I could afford was Adcom. Twenty years later I CAN afford Bryston and Parasound. Guess what, I buy Emotiva!-- I don't care what other people think. I'm happy with it. That's what counts. It's a good choice. I wish some publication would have the gonads to have an amp shootout with all these amps, including the $36,000 Krell 900E mono blocs... It will never happen though.... Even if it did happen, the review would be so full of qualifying statements and murky adjectives that it would be of no use anyway. |
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Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 5, 2013 14:54:29 GMT -5
I *strongly* considered the Parasound Halo A51 amp - but then after much back and forth decided the XPR-5 is a much better value, so bought that instead and am VERY happy with it! Its BIG and HEAVY, and will barely will fit into the cabinet I'm having built but it just will, and I'm adding a 140mm 'Cooler Guys' fan, and all will be good. The XPR Reference line, the 400w x 5 power, top-notch build quality, and especially the sound quality reputation were all convincing reasons for the Emo choice over the Parasound. (The Parasound Halo had all that too - but was missing the "value for money" part IMO...). Parasound dealer's profit margins on those amps I understand are 'through the roof'! And I'd rather put my money into performance, than into exorbitant profit... Also, I'll be adding the new Marantz AV8801 surround pre-pro to drive this XPR beast, and can't wait for THAT marriage to be 'consummated' (so to speak!) in a few weeks. I'll post a full review in the HT section of this forum in about a month or so when its all set up, (finally  ). |
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 15:20:04 GMT -5
What made you not even consider the XPA-5? I notice your fronts have a rating of 125 watts and 91 sens. No doubt your room will pound!
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Post by derrellb on Jan 5, 2013 16:52:19 GMT -5
What made you not even consider the XPA-5? I notice your fronts have a rating of 125 watts and 91 sens. No doubt your room will pound! Not to get on your case or anything and yes he would have been fine with an xpa5. But you keep stating watts and not wanting to spend money on unused watts. Its not about watts. Current is king. I will use the 802 diamond for an example again. 90db sensitiy, 8 ohm rated. Your a21 would run them fine but it will run out of steam during transient peaks. These speakers can dip into 3ohms and you will be surprised of what the extra current will do when driving these. They are a load to drive and it takes good clean current and plenty of it to drive. Until you have heard the difference as I have, you will always think more than x number of watts is not needed. Martin Logan big esls is another speaker that takes plenty of current to drive and can dip into the 2ohm territory. You can damage a speaker more easily by not having enough power than by having too much power. Clipping will become easier. Its not about listening levels. |
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Post by ultramic on Jan 5, 2013 17:25:56 GMT -5
Back to the original question, we know that the OP wants seperate amps and we also knows that he wants the s8's at some point in the future.
Any difference in sound quality between amps of different brands or within the same brand will be marginal when compared to the difference in sound a speaker can make (especially a highly regarded speaker like the s8). Speaker before any amplification, room treatments, components etc IMHO.
Without taking room size into account, I say go with the XPA2/3 combo or XPR5 (which should be more than sufficient to power the future s8's) and with the money you save over the $4k Parasound option, you are half way there to owning the s8's sooner.
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 17:29:54 GMT -5
What made you not even consider the XPA-5? I notice your fronts have a rating of 125 watts and 91 sens. No doubt your room will pound! Not to get on your case or anything and yes he would have been fine with an xpa5. But you keep stating watts and not wanting to spend money on unused watts. Its not about watts. Current is king. I will use the 802 diamond for an example again. 90db sensitiy, 8 ohm rated. Your a21 would run them fine but it will run out of steam during transient peaks. These speakers can dip into 3ohms and you will be surprised of what the extra current will do when driving these. They are a load to drive and it takes good clean current and plenty of it to drive. Until you have heard the difference as I have, you will always think more than x number of watts is not needed. Martin Logan big esls is another speaker that takes plenty of current to drive and can dip into the 2ohm territory. You can damage a speaker more easily by not having enough power than by having too much power. Clipping will become easier. Its not about listening levels. Or as Dan above said, it's about headroom. As I mentioned earlier in response to you, I place a high value on sound quality over watts. I have mentioned watts on this thread in response to other posts, it's probably the reason most give as to why they find the XPR amps a good option. But whether it be watts, current, or some other unit of measurement, if you buy an amp designed for 20 amp circuits, and then neuter it by connecting it to a 15 amp circuit because( as others have repeated) you won't need the 20 amps, then what's the point? For you, perhaps you would need the full output and would hopefully use a 20 amp circuit, but for most, who have mid-fi speakers and smaller rooms, there is simply no point. As I've mentioned, the A21 has 60 amps of output per channel. That is the kind of current that puts it head and shoulders above others. The Paradigm Signature S6 speakers actually dip down to 3.2 ohms at some frequencies, and it was a priority for me to get an amp that could handle this at any volumes. That's why I tested it in my system and compared it to my XPA amp, which didn't measure up. As you mention the need for current again, is 60 amps per channel not enough? And just how much current (not watts) does an XPR-5 or 2 have, I can't find it anywhere. Don't get me wrong, there are some speakers out there as you have mentioned that would put an XPR to good use, but for most it's more a case of bragging rights than actually needing one. |
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Post by Poodleluvr on Jan 5, 2013 18:02:12 GMT -5
Yep, I admit I brag.
I brag that I purchase and prefer Emotiva over Parasound.
I brag that I get "more" amp and what I believe is a better amp for my money.
No doubt, I brag and I consider it bragging rights.
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Post by sharkman on Jan 5, 2013 19:04:56 GMT -5
And if that's what you need to do, then more power to you. It's your money and system and you can do whatever seems best for you. BTW, I hope my comment didn't irritate you, it wasn't my intent to irritate anybody.  |
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Post by spreadingspanaway on Jan 6, 2013 3:13:56 GMT -5
sorry for late response about qc problems of parasound. some of the problems were, audio sensing remote turn on circuit didn't work (not really issue, don't use them.) another was grounding issue internally in amp, sent jc1 back twice for this, failure of amp to transition from standby to on. Poor fit and finish with stripped screw and cheezy plastic. they had decent power but the value of Emotiva especially now with Xpr is unbeatable, my only minor complaint with emotiva is the cosmetics, i would like to see no meters led or analog on the front, just a power button
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Post by emovac on Jan 6, 2013 4:05:41 GMT -5
Yes, a Class D amp would be a much painless transaction to return I've read about them but I guess I'm old fashioned. I'm open to new ideas so not to say I won't ever try Class D. I just don't think it's quite there yet. It will not surprise me if someday the amps I currently own are considered like dinosaurs. At that time, I suppose I'll have some new boat anchors.--- Swoosh! Class D has arrived. I did not for a moment consider returning mine. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 12:52:40 GMT -5
It's a good choice. I wish some publication would have the gonads to have an amp shootout with all these amps, including the $36,000 Krell 900E mono blocs... It will never happen though.... Even if it did happen, the review would be so full of qualifying statements and murky adjectives that it would be of no use anyway. That's why the only reviews I give significant credit to are those that test and publish performance results. There are very few of these type publications left. It s a shame. Yes, I enjoy reading the subjective reviews of how they sound but place very little credibility in their opinions and carefully read between the lines. The comments about the Parasound amps sounding better than the Emo amps are rather meaningless to me since I don't think in my room I would hear any difference between comparable models into my 4 ohm Emo speakers. I believe they are both excellent quality and performing amps. Emo amps just happen to be about 1/3 the price or less and look much better to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 13:52:23 GMT -5
What made you not even consider the XPA-5? I notice your fronts have a rating of 125 watts and 91 sens. No doubt your room will pound! The maximum rating of the fronts is 250W (continuous is 125W). The continuous rating is for lab tests and the maximum and peak rating are much more applicable to real world HT/music useage. The ES100 rated at -3dB down to 32Hz has dual 10" drivers that can require a lot of power depending on his sub(s) and bass management. The XPA-5 is rated at 200 watts into 8 ohms and the XPR-5 is rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms. So the XPA-5 is actually 50 watts under the JBL 250 watts maximum rating and the XPR-5 is not that much over, about 150 watts. Note that the XPR-5 is actually 100 watts under JBL's peak power rating of 500 watts. That 150 watts extra in the XPR-5 gives a whopping extra 2 decibels of output over the JBL recommendation. I don't think that is in any way too much power. I'd rather be 2dB's over at 400 watts than 1dB under at 200 watts. I'm not sure if we even know the size of the room. I also couldn't find a tested sensitivity for the ES100. Many times it is below the actual specified rating. Looks to me like the XPA-5 would have been a very good choice and the XPR-5 the best choice for The Mad Norseman. Of course the center and surrounds are rated at a lower 150 watts but I don't think that will create an issue for him. He did buy it so I can't see the criticism based on any justifiable facts. Looks to me that either amp will do a fine job. Here are the actual published specs on the JBL ES100: Frequency Response (–3dB) 32Hz – 40kHz Max. Recommended Amplifier Power* 250W Power Handling (Continuous/ Peak) 125W/ 500W Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 91dB Nominal Impedance 8 Ohms Low-Frequency Transducers Dual 10" (250mm) PolyPlas,™ PS: JBL frequently seems to spec peak power at 4 times continuous power and 2 times max power. JBL IMO understands the huge instantaneous peaks sometimes required for movie and music dynamics. Klipsch usually specs the same 4x peak power over continuous power. |
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Post by sharkman on Jan 6, 2013 14:25:59 GMT -5
Yes chuck, I read the entire JBL page for myself, and used the 125 number as it is the power handling continuous number. I was more curious as to why Norseman did't give the XPA-5 any consideration as it's so much cheaper than the XPR, and all the extra money only gets you a couple more more dbs. But as he hasn't responded I guess I won't know his thinking here.
I had a similar pair of JBL's several years ago and my experience was that they really do well with 100 watts of amp power, although I'm not sure if his more current models would do the same.
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Post by tchaik on Jan 6, 2013 19:25:32 GMT -5
Even if it did happen, the review would be so full of qualifying statements and murky adjectives that it would be of no use anyway. That's why the only reviews I give significant credit to are those that test and publish performance results. There are very few of these type publications left. It s a shame. Yes, I enjoy reading the subjective reviews of how they sound but place very little credibility in their opinions and carefully read between the lines. The comments about the Parasound amps sounding better than the Emo amps are rather meaningless to me since I don't think in my room I would hear any difference between comparable models into my 4 ohm Emo speakers. I believe they are both excellent quality and performing amps. Emo amps just happen to be about 1/3 the price or less and look much better to me. i totally agree with chuckienut. the subjective evaluations are interesting to read and do give food for thought. but without accompanying test results, they are still just that.... subjective opinions like all of ours are. having said that, i have owned krell, spectral, audio research, nad, hafler, rotel, adcom, harmon kardon, dynaco amps (and others i can't remember) over the years and the emo amps are by far the best i have ever owned. i don't know if the parasound sound better or not, but for the difference in price one could consider getting the emo amps and upgrade another area of the system with the xtra cash saved. just my 2 cents........  tchaik........... |
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