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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 12:52:33 GMT -5
The Mirage made the ported Infinity an aggravated mess . The Infinity was truly a one note wonder. The mirage is leagues ahead of the Infinity even with 4x less wattage, unless you are going for spl and not linearity. Personally I feel that since the Mirage was from the early/mid 90's and is ported, it sounds phenomenal. It has the high and low inputs with speaker wires, however the biggest oops is that there is not any phase sliders or switches for that. It does not integrate well with the Martin Logan's, and cuts the low end out in 2ch music pretty hefty. That is an issue, because the fronts sound better with the Mirage off, more bass, and clean. Had there been a phase adjustment who knows, the ML's are holding their own on low end VERY well. I really only could add a bit more at 30hz and below for 2ch as that is where the fronts are STARTING to fall off ATM. If the Mirage had a more powerful amplifier, and a phase adjustment, I think it would hold its own in a ported comparison if tested for linearity, because it is great at least in this room, except where the low hz drop off is. Finding more stuff of mine that I can sell off or donate. Hoping that I can scrounge up about 60 bucks to change the OPAMP (gain stage) in my audio card for the front two channels.
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Post by dougc on Sept 16, 2013 22:12:32 GMT -5
Ok now I'm pissed, you had to go and throw a third sub in there! First off phase adj. is either on or 180 degrees off. Switching the speaker wires will tell you if that's a problem with phase. #2 You were saying how the Mirage had a hollow and woodsy sound. To me that sounds like 1 of 2 things, more than likely both. 1 the screws on the sub have worked loose and the sub is rattling against the cabinet. #2 (most likely) The cabinet needs more insulation to kill the internal standing waves. 2 inches of Pollyfill @ Wallmart, etc will clear a lot of your issues up. 2 in. on all walls except the face. Make sure you leave breathing room for the port. I gotta go but will fill you more in tommarow. To be concluded, .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 10:09:49 GMT -5
Thanks Doug! I appreciate all of the knowledge that you have passed on through this forum to me. Yeah I only use one subwoofer, the Mirage. I gave away the Infinity because of the issues in that line of products and it was showing the signs of the heating up issue that people reported before they stopped working or fried internal components. I had a friend with the smaller version and his went out, he got his probably a year after I got mine. I did not feel great about the idea of selling it, and was hoping to get it out of my hands without paying recycling fees or storing it. The phasing has got to be off with the Mirage and ML's, the bass dramatically reduces when I play a 2ch 40-30hz test track copied to LFE while the ML's are producing it as well. Unfortunately I do not think that I have a fix all for my PC for changing the delay/phasing with everything, only certain programs and I will not bother. I would rather patch it with a sealed subwoofer later that has it built in . The Mirage is by no means really hollowy, it may just be the sound of ported speakers to begin with, it is nothing of a nuisance. I recently made a list of speaker decoupling methods and this here and that there notes. Added your insulation and product list etc. This Mirage really is sort of a beauty, I know if I sell it I will hardly get anything and the other person will get a better deal. It is clunky and I am not sure what to do with it :S. So far it has proved considerable reliability since the 90's and has never been sitting unattached to equipment in that entire time (has been used for a dedicated home Theater the whole time). . Think I should really keep it!
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Post by dougc on Sept 21, 2013 12:21:26 GMT -5
Keep it and buy the Bash 500 that's on sale. If you don't find any improvements you have 30 days to return it. I wouldn't even mount it to begin with. Just find a way to run a speaker wire into the cab for testing purposes.
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Post by dougc on Sept 21, 2013 12:54:24 GMT -5
What is the diameter and length of your port? Another option to getting rid of the port noise is as followed. Line the inside of the port with black heavy duty thick felt and put a piece of accustic foam or polly fill, 1-2 inches thick over the inside opening of your port. This will act like as a filter, similar to the foam over microphones and help alleviate port noise or chuffing. When it comes to subwoofers I prefer to buy the 1 1/2 - 2" thick rolls of pollyfill, not the loose. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 12:18:01 GMT -5
That is awesome advice Doug! Saved that advice to my section of DIY audio stuff. I should have clarified. I will keep the Mirage as a backup or where it may work in another room or something, if I can rid the cabinet that is in there and set a little radio on top of it to use as the speakers hahaha! I am sure it would look just hilarious. I just cannot part with the Mirage after its been working since the mid/early 90's, just too good of a working streak for me to let go for 100 or less to sell. I still hope that there is a way I can order the NHT subwoofer and that would give me a Bash amp as it is. Could use the Mirage in the workout room if I wire it up correctly. Thank you for the slick advice! I raised my front channels onto some shaped blocks that were sitting outside; leftovers from building a platform to a front porch. I will replace them with 8x16, 4 inch high blocks and am going to need more rubber feet for that. Should give a much cleaner look, silver/gray blocks compared to these reddish curved ones. Speakers are black, carpet is silver, should look much nicer and be more sturdy. I only have time for so much, even though I am here all of the time, so it makes longer projects less feesible unless it saves tons of money, but I feel the ported design is what I am looking for anyways. . Have a bunch more this week to get done than before. Might be getting handed a Monster Power Cleaner sometime soon. Have a great day and keep up to date with you if anything arises soon.
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Post by dougc on Sept 24, 2013 20:57:51 GMT -5
Tiwer1, you still haven't replied on the diameter and length of the port on your Mirage sub. As far as everything else goes, it sounds like your on a good track. As far as me, well I came to a complete halt. After my woofers got pushed in I said f- it. I'm done until I can remove some people. My son and his girlfriend won't even assume any responsibility at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 22:29:10 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that Doug on the halting. It does make sense however, and having been a kid not that many years ago, in my eyes, I have costed quite the financial burden amongst parents in other areas on my own doing, years ago. There really is not much that you can do, I worry about these EQ's getting bumped, while I moved the gear around, it is even easier for somebody to bump. I am on a great track at the moment, thanks for your help so far as well! My hopes is to keep the mirage for another room, and put the NHT B-12d in place of, and swap the Infinity Primus 162 bookshelves that I have as rears and false sides when mixed with the fronts, with Martin Logan Motion 15's. I may try swapping the op-amp out for the front L and R with a higher quality but different op-amp in the audio card. Just pops right out. Other than that, possibly a power device that has a transformer and capacitor that the other audio gear would plug into, for more power and cleaner power than the wall outlet provides. Tomorrow I am going to try and get 12x12 slabs from Lowes and set my speakers 8" up for the front L and R to swap out these goofy looking ones. Should only cost $10 + tax. I just looked into the port of the Mirage. 9.75" by 4" wide. I had a bit of a surprise to me at least, which was that when I reached inside the port, I hit the back wall (I think), with no padding, reached upwards from there, hit wood which is not the top of the enclosure by any means, to the left was the left sidewall of the box, down was the bottom of the box, to the right had major padding. There is some sort of chambered section going on in there, I was assuming that it would have been just an open box, but perhaps there was some designing going on making it act much better. I really love the Mirage, even at 100 watts rms it is great, but it definitely lacks some low end rattling of the apartment compared to the NHT or the hump in the response of the Infinity that I gave away recently.
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Post by dougc on Sept 25, 2013 20:09:20 GMT -5
What year and or model # is your Mirage ?? I am curious and feel the need to research it.
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Post by dougc on Sept 25, 2013 20:11:20 GMT -5
A few more months till I get the UMC 200, but who's counting?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 21:18:47 GMT -5
Awesome! Hope you enjoy it. Definitely look forward to hearing about it. I have a manual but its the wrong manual for it, must have gotten the wrong one back in the day with it, not my fault lol. I would say mid 90s, I remember playing Super Nintendo and having it hooked up, unless that was a different sub, and I doubt it. A pamphlet in .pdf format does not have the year either, but it has specs for it. Mirage MS-12 MOSFET 100 watts RMS - 400 watts peak <.04%THD 12" woofer with 28-150hz +-3dB. -3dB@35hz, +3dB@45H, +6dB@50hz audio/video lever adjustment. (must be at typo) no phase switch or knob 50-150hz 18dB/octave variable low pass filter. High and Low level inputs with high level outputs. 16.3"(H), 17.3"(W), 16"(D) 48 lbs. PS. I suppose I should clean that port dust up .
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Post by dougc on Sept 30, 2013 20:43:28 GMT -5
That's weird that there is no phase dial or switch. My 1996 buyers guide magazine of Stereo Review, and 2000 buyers guide issue of sound Vision, both say there is one. Don't figure. As far as other stuff, I am still researching. Other than that nothing new. Went to a OSU Beavers game Sat. in Corvallis. Awesome game other than getting soaked in the monsoon storm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2013 22:02:05 GMT -5
Yeah it's a real shame to not have the adjustment considering how well it has implemented in this room. The phasing does cancel out some bass unfortunately. Nice! Yeah definitely has been rainy and really windy the last few nights. If I have not mentioned it, I got a bunch of 12x12 2" height gray concrete slabs from Lowes and heightened up the front L and R, and the Infinity's. I have more to get for the Infinity's, but boy what a cheap price, and almost every speaker is within 2-3 inches for tweeter alignment in height. Coupled to the slabs and tried to decouple them from the floor as well. Redid the EQ. Things are sounding much better than I would have ever thought possible with what I have. I do eventually want to get the Kenwood built up even beefier and newer high end parts on them, like the capacitors etc., as it is running my front L and R, dual monoblock. Costly though!
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Post by dougc on Oct 3, 2013 19:41:42 GMT -5
It sounds like your making great progress. Good idea about the slabs. About the sub, probably a stupid question but have you checked and double checked your wiring? Try reversing the wires. Even pull the sub and check the wiring going to it (internally). The sub is old enough, is there a possibility work was done on it over the yrs. and maybe wires got crossed in the process. If everything is wired properly, you should not have such a phase issue.
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Post by dougc on Oct 3, 2013 19:53:57 GMT -5
Actually pull your subwoofer, and swap your pos. and neg..Depending on the crossover slope between the sub vs. your mains (6,12, 18,24) they could be fighting against each other.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 10:47:37 GMT -5
I run the LFE cable to the SW only. Ran Room EQ Wizard, did four sweeps, in phase or out of phase, with EQ and without EQ for both. The results were in favor of switching the phasing by the driver wires on the SW. They were wired correctly, but it just did not play well that way. The yellow wire inside of the box is for the on/off LED, why such the just enough needed rule! lol. Test is Front L and R with Mirage Subwoofer combined. Redid the EQ for the Mirage on its own, then combined for newest and last result on the graph. Purple is the swapped driver wires and new EQ (keeping). Blue is the normal wiring with the old EQ. Got 6dB less variance at 50hz. Very much a tighter gap. 150hz (middle of biggest rectangle) and on doesn't really matter due to LFE range, so it's completely a better result in almost every hz used. 15-300hz results. 150hz and on doesn't matter. Each vertical box is 2dB. Click graph to make it fullscreen. PS. Got some more slabs so that the Infinity's will be up very near equal to the fronts and center channels. Will do that and check the EQ in a bit here.
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Post by dougc on Oct 7, 2013 20:06:48 GMT -5
So I'm confused which one of the 2 on the graph you ended up going with. On my computer one is red and one is blue. The red or maybe purple one that covers more area in the low region, looks to be a winner to me. A more rounded bass instead of a one note wonder.
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Post by dougc on Oct 7, 2013 20:21:02 GMT -5
BTW that insulation job looks atrocious. Personally I would redo it. Personally speaking of course.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 20:29:17 GMT -5
Red was better yes and the one I went with which was reversed wires which changes the direction the woofer moves as well. I plan on getting the nht if I can so any money put into the mirage is not really well spent even on a few bucks. Truth is I have no money at this moment. I'll figure something out like always. Such is life haha. Thanks for the help again. Got my rear speakers raised and re eq'd. All speakers are level for height now.
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Post by dougc on Oct 8, 2013 20:40:14 GMT -5
See sometimes I know what I'm talking about :/ . Hopefully things will get better, for you fianancialy. I am sick as hell, I'm going to bed. Just got home from work 45 min. ago.
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