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Post by Dark Ranger on Mar 17, 2013 14:01:22 GMT -5
Hi DR how loud is this click you hear? thanks The click I experience several minutes in is definitely softer than the initial start-up clicks. I estimated 3-4 times quieter, but I wanted some proof with my handy SPL meter. Amplifier initialization clicks: 61.3 dBA (max hold)"Power down/transition" click: 43.4 dBA (max hold)I performed each test twice, and then averaged the results. Testing was performed with a Galaxy Audio CM-150 SPL meter. The meter was placed on top of the chassis cover in the same location (as close to identical as I could manage). For the first set of clicks (amplifier initialization), the SPL meter was on the left side. For the secondary "power down/transition" click, the SPL meter was on the right side since the click occurs on the right side of the amplifier. My thought was, the closer I can position the SPL meter to the click "source," the more accurate the reading will be. Outstanding post Bro! Thanks for sharing this.That amp has some nice gear in it. I agree this is a nice amp so far. Among other things, it seems to be more revealing than when my center speaker was hooked up to the UPA-500. You could just get an RCA splitter if you happen to have one. I'll have to check my stash of cables and connectors, but that is my planned backup option if I cannot get JRiver to output a monaural signal.
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Post by deltadube on Mar 17, 2013 23:26:31 GMT -5
Hi DR how loud is this click you hear? thanks The click I experience several minutes in is definitely softer than the initial start-up clicks. I estimated 3-4 times quieter, but I wanted some proof with my handy SPL meter. Amplifier initialization clicks: 61.3 dBA (max hold)"Power down/transition" click: 43.4 dBA (max hold)I performed each test twice, and then averaged the results. Testing was performed with a Galaxy Audio CM-150 SPL meter. The meter was placed on top of the chassis cover in the same location (as close to identical as I could manage). For the first set of clicks (amplifier initialization), the SPL meter was on the left side. For the secondary "power down/transition" click, the SPL meter was on the right side since the click occurs on the right side of the amplifier. My thought was, the closer I can position the SPL meter to the click "source," the more accurate the reading will be. I agree this is a nice amp so far. Among other things, it seems to be more revealing than when my center speaker was hooked up to the UPA-500. You could just get an RCA splitter if you happen to have one. I'll have to check my stash of cables and connectors, but that is my planned backup option if I cannot get JRiver to output a monaural signal. wow thats like a 1/2 watt click in a sensitivity test at one meter eh. i think dan said its not suppose to click yesterday.. i dont want no clicking amps.. im sure they will replace.. thanks for posting ..
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Post by Dark Ranger on Mar 21, 2013 18:09:36 GMT -5
UPDATE - March 21, 2013 I have shipped my 1L back to Emotiva as part of the recall program. Therefore, I am temporarily abandoning this thread until the replacement arrives. If the new unit checks out, I will continue my evaluation and post some feedback regarding any noticeable sound quality improvements in Class A and AB modes. Thank you for your interest. ------------------------- I realized that much of my feedback on the amp's sound quality had been posted in other threads. To simplify and consolidate my comments, I'll provide a quick list. 1) No, I cannot hear a difference between low-bias (Class A/B) and high-bias (Class A) operation reliably enough to be confident in a BT or DBT. They both sound great. I'm therefore choosing to run them in low-bias (Class A/B) mode 99% of the time to reduce power consumption and heat output. I'll save high-bias for special occasions. 2) The XPA-1L sounds completely neutral and transparent to my ears. There is no coloration added by the amp that I can detect. This is exactly what a good power amp should do. I can't really wax poetical here because everything sounds right. The XPA-1L just adds gain according to my ears. But wait, does it have a chocolatey mid-range or firm bass? Sure, if the source material has chocolatey mid-range and firm bass. How about shrill or bright treble? Sure, if the source material has shrill or bright treble. Seriously, the XPA-1L just amplifies whatever it's given. Feed it a good recording and you'll be stunned. Feed it 3-day-old leftovers from the neighbor's garbage bin, you're gonna be heading for the toilet soon. If you want a quiet, very transparent amp you can afford, get an XPA-1L. 3) The amplifier is very quiet with a low noise floor. Depending on the sensitivity of your speakers, you may hear a slight hiss from the tweeter (this is normal). No complaints here. 4) The XPA-1L has plenty of headroom and I doubt I'm tapping into much of the power supply with my small room and low-to-moderate listening levels. That being said, I've had plenty of times where I want to enjoy loud (>95 dBC) music or movies for a short time. The amplifier never felt strained. Quite simply, I think this is one of the best amplifiers that Emotiva has ever made. Excellent features, superb sound quality, and surprising affordability. Emotiva really hit a home run here. NOTE: these comments pertain to the Gen 1 model of which I own three of these. In late 2014, Emotiva released an updated version of the XPA-1L with minor circuit refinements and styling modifications.
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Post by solidstate on Jul 30, 2014 1:33:31 GMT -5
UPDATE - March 21, 2013 I have shipped my 1L back to Emotiva as part of the recall program. Therefore, I am temporarily abandoning this thread until the replacement arrives. If the new unit checks out, I will continue my evaluation and post some feedback regarding any noticeable sound quality improvements in Class A and AB modes. Thank you for your interest. Recall program!?! hmm... What's the deal with that!?!
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 30, 2014 3:31:19 GMT -5
UPDATE - March 21, 2013 I have shipped my 1L back to Emotiva as part of the recall program. Therefore, I am temporarily abandoning this thread until the replacement arrives. If the new unit checks out, I will continue my evaluation and post some feedback regarding any noticeable sound quality improvements in Class A and AB modes. Thank you for your interest. Recall program!?! hmm... What's the deal with that!?! Over a year ago, power supply if I remember rightly and only a limited few within a range of serial numbers. Cheers Gary
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Post by brubacca on Jul 30, 2014 7:23:39 GMT -5
Some of the very first XPA-1l amps had a setting wrong in the microprocessor code, the temperature threshold for switching to class AB operation was not set correctly. This was noticed immediately and fixed very quickly. Emotiva fixed a bunch before shipping, but the first few amps that got out into the wild had this issue and were recalled by Emotiva. This is a complete non-issue at this point.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Jul 30, 2014 17:40:55 GMT -5
Recall program!?! hmm... What's the deal with that!?! Hi solidstate, Since you've asked, there were two recalls for the XPA-1L shortly after initial release. The first recall was to correct a portion of the control code and the second was to address an internal grounding issue. Here is Lonnie's response and explanation for issue #1: Just a quick update here. I am sure you guys will be happy to know that the XPA-1L will be shipping in the next couple of days. The issue was a simple transposition in the control code that switches the unit between Class A and Class A/B. What happened is their are two different temperature limits programmed into the control code. The high temp setting drops the unit from Class A to Class A/B operation and the low temp swings it back again. Well what happened is the temps got swapped. The low was set as the high and the high was set as the low. So as the unit heated up it quickly reached the low temp (which was set as the high) and would drop into Class A/B mode. Once I figured out what happened we corrected the code and now they are running exactly as they should. We are updating the units now and they will be shipping very soon (as in the next day or two). ;D I apologize for not catching this sooner. Best regards to all. Lonnie I can confirm the fix was successful and all 3 of my XPA-1L amps work properly in this regard. This is now a "complete non-issue" as brubacca mentioned. It was corrected quickly, plus Emotiva spent a fortune covering the shipping fees to get all the amps back to Franklin HQ. Issue #2 was separate and most customers (including myself) experienced a buzzing noise anywhere from 3 seconds to 50 seconds depending how long the amp had been turned off and which bias level the amp was operating in. Here's Lonnie's reply for issue #2: Hello one and all, I would first like to apologize for anyone who is having an issue but we have figured out what the cause is yesterday and have a resolution. So if you run into this please give us a call and we will get you taken care of ASAP. The issue at hand is a ground loop that can under a specific setup condition present itself but will not happen for the majority of people. When we were told of the noise, we started investigating it, but was unable to reproduce the issue in the lab or any of the listening rooms. We went through all the amps and tested them repeatedly in various installations and it wasn't until we hit upon a specific setup were we able to reproduce the issue. So up until Friday, as far as we knew, the noise people reported had to be caused by something else in the system and not the amp itself and to a certain degree, this is still correct as it is an interaction of the grounds between the gear that is the cause. Anyway, I have babbled long enough. I am truly sorry if you run into this, we are modifying the current gear so it wont happen but if you have one that does, please give us a call and we will take care of you. Lonnie ...followed by Big Dan's remark: Gentlemen, Please let me be more specific. If you have ordered the XPA-1L's and have not yet received them, if possible, please refuse them when they arrive so they will be returned to us. If you do receive them, please do not even bother to open them. There is no point in it. Contact us and we will send call tags, and arrange shipment of new units, with the ground loop issue resolved. If you have a new XPA-1L, making noise or not, please contact us and we will replace it and send a call tag for the units you have in your possession. We want all units returned, as Lonnie has found a small ground loop in the unit that is a function of this models mechanical construction. Is has NOTHING to do with the electrical design of the amplifier, it is related to the XLR connector chosen for this model and its ground path on the PCB. Depending on a number of variables, it may or may not make noise, but we do not want to have this as an ongoing issue. You've paid for an amp that works correctly, and you will have one that does. We've have had units running in different theaters, stereo set-ups, and the lab with no issue for weeks now. It wasn't until late Friday that we were finally able to find one that made the noise that some of you had mentioned.. And then it took Lonnie a while to get to the bottom of things. Please know that we would not sent these units to you if we were aware of this issue and had found it here prior to shipment! It's a huge inconvenience for all of you, and VERY expensive for us to correct. So please believe me when I tell you this. I am embarrassed and very sorry for the trouble. We will also be contacting all customers to make sure they have call tags and to confirm the replacements. This is very unfortunate, as the XPA-1L is probably one of the sweetest amplifiers we have made in a long while, and I hate to see its launched marred by this issue. We have no one to blame but ourselves. We will learn from this and develop new systems and test protocols to make sure this does not happen again. One again, my sincere apologies to one and all. We'll have everyone back in business next week. Best regards, Big Dan Again, Emotiva covered the shipping costs both ways. I have absolutely zero complaints with how Emotiva handled the initial roll-out. They listened to customer feedback, launched an investigation, and initiated the recall program (twice) to make things right. The XPA-1L amplifiers are, in my opinion, one of the best value products Emotiva has ever offered. I had been waiting (im)patiently for them ever since they were unveiled at Emofest 2012. These amps offer (IMO) a transparent and clean sonic signature, a low-profile footprint, they're light enough that you won't break your back when you move it, a fully differential design, enough power on tap for most sane enthusiasts, plus a user-selectable toggle to bias the amp into 35 watts Class A. Oh, and all of that for just $699. I love these amps (as I've often mentioned).
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Post by Poodleluvr on Aug 5, 2014 13:50:44 GMT -5
When I get back into home theater in the near future, I'll be sure to give the XPA-1L G2s serious consideration. Right now, I'm looking forward to the debut of the Emotiva XPA-1L G2s.
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Post by geebo on Nov 11, 2014 11:46:17 GMT -5
When I get back into home theater in the near future, I'll be sure to give the XPA-1L G2s serious consideration. Right now, I'm looking forward to the debut of the Emotiva XPA-1L G2s. They are available now...
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Post by rod on Nov 11, 2014 19:49:30 GMT -5
I just got mine today.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Nov 11, 2014 19:55:46 GMT -5
AND?
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Post by rod on Nov 11, 2014 20:06:50 GMT -5
I am still evaluating its performance to see if it is really worth keeping it or upgrading to XPA 1 g2. As a matter of fact, I am beginning to feel the difference between 1L vs XPA . Obviously , I don't have golden ears to hear the huge difference, but I can discern at least if there is a change in my system or not. Also,I am planing to let it play all night long so that I can learn to hear any desirable difference if, in case, there is any since the weather here today is rainy.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 12, 2014 15:37:09 GMT -5
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Post by butchgo on Nov 12, 2014 21:19:00 GMT -5
I received mine on Monday but haven't had the time to really check them out yet. They definitely run a lot warmer even in the A/B mode than my Outlaw 2200s which never even warmed up. Got a couple of days off next week and that is when I will really do some testing with some HD audio on DVD-A and the Blu-ray of Pink Floyd's The Endless River.
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Post by leonski on Feb 12, 2015 3:30:20 GMT -5
I read thru the 1st post in this thread and have a question and suggestion: The specs call out an 18g a power cord. WOW! Is that correct? Not even 16ga? Crazy. The VERY FIRST thing I'd do is ship off to somebody like Signal Cable or SOMEBODY for a 12ga or 14ga power cord. I'm NOT a big cable guy. But 18ga is TINY for this amp, or at least 'minimal'. Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the dynamics of the amp improved with a more rubust power cord. www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14The Pangea cords get reasonable reviews without spending at the Nordost Valhalla level. They even have a 9ga which would work for even the LARGEST Emotiva amp.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Feb 12, 2015 14:26:44 GMT -5
I read thru the 1st post in this thread and have a question and suggestion: The specs call out an 18g a power cord. WOW! Is that correct? Not even 16ga? Crazy. The VERY FIRST thing I'd do is ship off to somebody like Signal Cable or SOMEBODY for a 12ga or 14ga power cord. I'm NOT a big cable guy. But 18ga is TINY for this amp, or at least 'minimal'. Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the dynamics of the amp improved with a more rubust power cord. www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14The Pangea cords get reasonable reviews without spending at the Nordost Valhalla level. They even have a 9ga which would work for even the LARGEST Emotiva amp. I have three first-gen XPA-1L amps and all of them have 18 AWG power cables. Perhaps Gen 2 models have a larger cable. I did find it interesting, but I don't believe Emotiva would deliberately handicap the amplifier with a power cable that could not meet intended performance claims. I do hear what you're saying though. From my quick research, it appears that 18 AWG copper can handle up to 16 amps in a free-air run (which mine are), and 10 amps in a closed system (e.g. conduit). Obviously cable length increases resistance and contributes to the maximum load specs. The power cables I received with the XPA-1L amps appear to be around 2 meters in length, although I cannot verify that unless I squeeze behind the rack and fish 'em out. I have a small room so I don't need to push the power too much.
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Post by geebo on Feb 12, 2015 14:33:36 GMT -5
I replaced mine with a couple of 1 meter Emo power cables I got at their first garage sale a few years ago for 5 bucks apiece.
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Post by Dark Ranger on Feb 12, 2015 14:47:51 GMT -5
Yeah, the Emo power cables look nice and are heavier gauge. The Pangea cables look nice too. I've been thinking about replacing the three power cables for the XPA-1Ls, but for other reasons. I want to see if a fully-shielded power cable can reduce some of the noise in my system. I've had significant improvements already by replacing my unbalanced RCA cables with Blue Jeans LC-1. The 2 meter run between the pre/pro and amp was picking up a lot of noise, a very annoying problem. The LC-1 cable with its double shielding reduced the unwanted noise by, oh I dunno, 40-50%? Very noticeable improvement. Perhaps I can further reduce the noise with shielded power cables. I just don't have the space to properly route power cables and speaker cables away from the low-voltage interconnects, and I believe that is where the problems come from. If I want a noise-free listening experience, I switch over to the DC-1 which runs balanced XLR to the amps. Quiet as a church mouse!
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Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2015 15:08:22 GMT -5
Also bear in mind that those power ratings you see for each gauge of wire assume continuous duty. (In real life, unlike using a light bulb or an air conditioner, the average amount of power you use when playing music with an amplifier is about 1/10 to 1/20 of the maximum power you have available. So, for example, an XPA-1L playing music quite loudly is really probably consuming two or three amps average in Class A mode, and even a bit less than that in Class A/B mode - and, of course, it is the job of the filter capacitors to supply virtually unlimited amounts of current over the short time periods when the demand exceeds the available current, which makes this even less of an issue. Another thing to bear in mind is that those current ratings are talking about the amount of current which will warm up the wire, whereas what we're talking about here is whether the resistance of the wire will limit the current available to the amplifier. In a six foot cable, even the resistance of 18 gauge wire is pretty small, and not much of a limiting factor. (If you were going to swap that cord for a twenty footer, or add a twenty foot extension cord to it, I would definitely recommend going up to 12 gauge or 14 gauge. Your house is wired with 12 gauge wire because they expect runs of up to 100 feet between the breaker box and the outlet, and resistance is calculated on a per-foot basis. . ) I read thru the 1st post in this thread and have a question and suggestion: The specs call out an 18g a power cord. WOW! Is that correct? Not even 16ga? Crazy. The VERY FIRST thing I'd do is ship off to somebody like Signal Cable or SOMEBODY for a 12ga or 14ga power cord. I'm NOT a big cable guy. But 18ga is TINY for this amp, or at least 'minimal'. Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the dynamics of the amp improved with a more rubust power cord. www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14The Pangea cords get reasonable reviews without spending at the Nordost Valhalla level. They even have a 9ga which would work for even the LARGEST Emotiva amp. I have three first-gen XPA-1L amps and all of them have 18 AWG power cables. Perhaps Gen 2 models have a larger cable. I did find it interesting, but I don't believe Emotiva would deliberately handicap the amplifier with a power cable that could not meet intended performance claims. I do hear what you're saying though. From my quick research, it appears that 18 AWG copper can handle up to 16 amps in a free-air run (which mine are), and 10 amps in a closed system (e.g. conduit). Obviously cable length increases resistance and contributes to the maximum load specs. The power cables I received with the XPA-1L amps appear to be around 2 meters in length, although I cannot verify that unless I squeeze behind the rack and fish 'em out. I have a small room so I don't need to push the power too much.
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Post by leonski on Feb 13, 2015 1:28:47 GMT -5
with either 30x2 or 35x2 in 'A' AND a pair of 450va transformers for a stereo pair, and given 'A' amps low efficiency of anywhere SOUTH of maybe 35% to as low as single digits, I'm sorry, but 18ga is MINIMAL, for a power cord, IMO. Even a 15 amp service is fed by 14ga while a 20amp service must be 12 or better.
If ANYONE has a Kill-A-Watt and can measure this amps IDLE current draw, please post with number. Power Factor would be nice, too, but not a deal breaker if not below say…..0.8 or so. And not even than, really. And if ANYONE could please CRANK IT UP for 30 minutes or so and FEEL the plug or IEC end of the cord, please also post if you can detect any warmth. I mean play it Loud. NO…..LOUDER. Really dip into the power.
If I had gone thru with 2 pair of these to biamp my panels, I'd have found out about those cords and replaced them with 14ga. Nothing WACKY, but Really, I've got Zip Cord to lamps which is 18ga. I'm not talking some crazy expensive 'designer' cable, either. The Pangea would be the OUTER limit of my budget and I might even be tempted to go DIY.
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