Would you buy an entry-level tube preamp.....?

[knucklehead]

Apr 23, 2013 16:49:45 GMT -5 KeithL said:

So, if we make one, would you buy it?

How about a ballpark price?

I'd be more interested in an integrated tube amp.

[ossif]

Whatever Emotiva builts, with or without tubes, make it integrateable in a home cinema environment. XSP-1 and USP-1 have a great feature, the home cinema bypass. Today, I would not even think for a second buying any stereo preamp without this feature as it is the only way to offer proper integration possibility.

[ocezam]

May 18, 2013 0:19:00 GMT -5 ossif said:

Whatever Emotiva builts, with or without tubes, make it integrateable in a home cinema environment. XSP-1 and USP-1 have a great feature, the home cinema bypass. Today, I would not even think for a second buying any stereo preamp without this feature as it is the only way to offer proper integration possibility.

Yuk! Integrate tubes into your HT? Not me thanks. This is done, and it's a very, very small market.


....

[AudioHTIT]

Well if the 2 channel tube preamp had an HT bypass, and the 2C amp was solid state (like an XPA-2 or something), you wouldn't really have tubes in the system when you were in 'bypass' mode (as you would be for HT). Still, I'm not sure what list of features qualifies for 'entry level'.

[painted_klown]

Just saw this thread.

As a guy who has always wanted to dabble in tubes, but hasn't due to cost and warranty concerns, I say YES. I would be very interested in a low cost entry level tube pre.

I also like the idea of essentially making a USP-1, but essentially in a tube version, instead of a SS design. Perhaps have a standard tube set that comes stock, OR you can upgrade to "X tubes" for Y dollars more. Also, have X tubes available to purchase at a later date, for those interested. I also agree with what someone said about Emo's buying power. In regards to that, with the "X tubes", please go higher end (within reason) so that we can possible get tubes we may not otherwise be able to afford. I hope all of that makes sense.

As far as the tubes are concerned. I say let Emotiva pick them, and please use modern tubes as they will be readily available, and lower cost. Also, and a full blown "tube noob" I would like to see something that you can roll tubes in, without having to manually adjust when doing so. I am the type of guy who is always paranoid he will mess something up, and fry his gear. This paranoia will do nothing but leave me frozen with fear, and I will end up never rolling the tubes, or getting the full enjoyment out of the gear. IMO having automatic biasing is a must for this piece.

Most likely, this will be the very first piece of tube gear that owners will have. With that in mind, keep it as simple as possible, and user friendly.

Just my 2 pennies.

[ocezam]

Jun 5, 2013 16:32:33 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Still, I'm not sure what list of features qualifies for 'entry level'.

Agreed. And where does "entry level" stop price wise?


...

[sturski]

I grew up listening to vinyl on headphones. CDs always sounded a bit harsh to me, particularly with headphones. To my totally subjective ears, vacuum tubes seem to remove or at least smooth over the digital harshness.

I recently rebuilt the "mancave" system with an ERC-2 as my source, a Woo Audio WA2 headphone amp, and a pair of Beyer T1s. I couldn't be happier with the sound, but ... headphones have a cord and my ears have a 2 hr limit on fatigue. So, I added a used UPA-2 and some PSB Imagine 2 speakers. I'm happy with the sound, but ...

On most preamps, the headphone circuit is an afterthought and marginal. It's the opposite with the Woo. While the sound quality of the preamp output is very good, I'd really like a bit more flexibility, particularly easy subwoofer connectivity and an ability to switch the preamp output off. Tone controls with a defeat switch would be nice for some of my lousy but well loved recordings.

Build me a vacuum tube preamp where the headphone and preamp portions are equally well thought out and I'll buy it. Use commonly available tubes, as well.

[Andrew Robinson]

Jun 14, 2013 10:25:30 GMT -5 sturski said:

Build me a vacuum tube preamp where the headphone and preamp portions are equally well thought out and I'll buy it. Use commonly available tubes, as well.

I believe I would buy a tube preamp before I would buy a tube amp. In the past, when I've owned tube gear, I've found I like them (tubes) in the preamp section but still prefer the "control" and output of a solid state amp before my speakers. 

[Deleted]

> I'd love a simple tube buffer that would be a companion to the XSP-1 (through the proc loop).

The XSP-1 Differential Reference Preamp is about a perfect an preamp as you could want. As others have said, a unity gain tube buffer that could be added thru the XSP-1's processer loop, to add authentic tube distortion is what I want. Basically a vaccuum tube distortion filter. It could also be stuck between the preamp and power amp if you lacked a tape loop.

It could have a switch on the front to set the level of distortion; or style: Carver sound, Fender sound, McIntosh sound...

While we're at it; include a hiss generator, and a randomly on, periodic click generator so I can get a authentic phonograph sound from my CDs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I just visited the Audio Horizons tube buffer page, the specs:
Frequency Response: 10-50kHz, +1/-2dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): 0.2% @ 1kHz, -20dBV, A-weighted
Signal to Noise Ratio: 100 dB
Channel Separation: 80 dB @ 1 kHz

Compared to EMO XSP-1 (unbalanced, worse case)
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +/- 0.015 dB
THD + N (harmonic distortion plus noise, @ 1 kHz): < 0.0006%
S/N (signal-to-noise ratio, A-weighted, ref +6 dBV): > 113 dB
THD + N (harmonic distortion plus noise, @ 1 kHz): < 0.0006%
Crosstalk (measured at +6 dBF, 10 kHz): < 102 dB

At $900 one must presume the Audio Horizons tube buffer is high end, and typical of tube gear. It's frequency response is two orders of magnitude worse than emo, THD 4 magnitudes worse, S/N 13 dB worse and channel separation 23 dB worse. Why would I want to insert this device into my virtually perfect (distortion-wise) XSP-1 sound path? (But to be fair, even Audio Horizens higher fugures are probably inaudible).

No, forget it. I don't want distortion, however authentic sounding; I want to hear the music as the musician heard it. I won't be buying tube gear.

Sincerely
/b

[savjac]

Yeah I guess I would.
Two maybe three inputs, easy access to the tubes, nice face, tubes visible and nothing too bright up front.
I know this was not asked but I would love a Tube, Integrated Amp from Emotiva, I think that would rock the boat for me.
I have been crusin the tube dac waters and there are a good number but Keith is right, if they break, best have a transporter
beam to Asia. Ohh, integrated with remote control, now there is the king.
I have several Dacs, so no need for built it, phono pre amp, naw, tone controls, I understand the need but not for me, that is what different tubes are for. User replaceable power cord, good strong RCA jacks and I think the drool bucket may be in order.

[brubacca]

Please, please, please talk about the direction for Emotiva tubes in the podcast tomorrow. Would love to hear about an Emotiva branded tube Pre-amp, or integrated amp.

[johnrice]

Getting back to the original question. I'd be interested in a tube pre. After thinking about it, what I'd ultimately like isn't maybe quite "entry level". I'd like XSP level SQ, digitally controlled volume, analog (defeatable) bass management and that is it. No tone controls or balance, which could be on a "step-up" model, along with fully balanced. I'd like to see the base model aimed at maximum SQ, HT bypass, and that's it.

[badjerjim]

I would buy one... with the Emotiva build quality, and input from Bob Carver.

One comment though... modern "Audiophile" stuff seems to be either minimalist (vol and balance only), or remote-controlled with an LED screen. The purist 'volume and balance only' doesn't interest me... too limiting considering the variety of input sources today (LP, MP3, CD, etc). I've owned a number of preamps like that, and finally kicked myself for being such a snob that I couldn't get the sound I wanted.

Then there's the 'modern' stuff like the current Emotiva range. Sure, there's a volume knob on the front... and that's good. But for everything else, you have to use the remote and press 27 buttons (in sequence) to see what the settings are. It just shouldn't be that hard.

Consider this preamp, from 1976:



While it's no longer state of the art... man, it sure is easy to use. I can walk up to it, and at a glance know where EVERYTHING is set. Plus it has easy flexibility for adding stuff (3 tape loops, one on the front!), a switchable low-cut filter, and stereo/mono/reverse at the touch of a knob!

Do you need full system control over everything with a remote? I don't think so. Volume, yes. So put a motor on the volume control, controlled by the remote. And of course, the human hand can jump out of the chair and turn the big Volume knob up or down if the remote fell down behind the cushions of the couch.

That's my 2-cents. A super-quality, modern tube preamp with easy to use controls? YES. Sign me up!

[ews0899]

+1 to badgerjim's post

[novisnick]

I would love to have one to see if it will be a dead end or do I drool for a better tube amp. Please make a starter tube amp.I listen to some vinyl now,but would like to upgrade that a little later if I like the sound of a tube amp.Thanks for asking us, the customer about what we want. Thats what I do for my customers.

[novisnick]

I'm learning about this forum and how to respond, (post), I gust lost a 10 minute rant on how I would love an entry level tube amp from Emotiva,  to see if I would pursue my vinyl collection. Thanks for asking your customer what we think!

[panterapunch]

shure im interested, just please make it look good if u going to use tubes show them, do not hide them in a black box, sounds come first but the look of the equipment its a great plus and helps sales.

and do not take years to build it. im still waiting in the exec system , the media server, the turnable , the phono stage and we only get more and more amps by the way the xpa-2 could have analog meters in my humble opinion

[pressureworld]

I would def be interested in a tube preamp. Please keep it simple (not to keen on HT integration) with a strong emphases on sound quality.

[paintedklown]

I am of the mindset that in order to be able to focus on SQ while similtanously keeping costs low, then it's probably best to do away with any "features" that are not 100% necessary for minimalist function.

No tone controls, no balance controls, no HT bypass, no bass management (don't shoot me here guys), just a simple, LOW cost tube pre that focuses soley on sound quality over frills. I do think a phono-pre is a must have in such a product however. Simply lift the pre from the USP-1 to keep costs down.

Just give me a volume knob with switching, and keep it as low cost as possible. THAT is what will make me try tubes.

Having a tube pre that starts pushing close to the cost of the XSP-1 and I am out. Perhaps a couple years AFTER the "entry level" model, I would be interested in a tubed version of the XSP-1, but not just to "try it out" if that makes sense.

[brubacca]

I'm hopeful that maybe Emofest will have some surprises for us in this regard!