|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jun 23, 2013 19:53:39 GMT -5
Just an FYI for other would-be bass trap makers...... Bass traps are used to absorb excess bass if certain frequencies are "piling up" at standing wave nodes (which will make the room sound boomy at those frequencies which correspond to those nodes). Where the optimum places to put bass traps are located up will depend on your room, and your speaker location; they sort of need to be placed where the peaks (nodes) are located. While the corners may indeed often end up being where the bass traps should go, DO NOT automatically assume that putting bass traps in the corners of your room will be necessary - or will make an improvement. (Room treatments, including bass traps, are NOT an "everybody needs them, and one size fits all" type of system tweak. If you need them, and put them in the right places, they certainly will help. But, if you don't need them, or put them in the wrong places, then they will probably make things worse.) Keith typed: "Where the optimum places to put bass traps are located up will depend on your room, and your speaker location...".- And the 'WAF!", don't forget the 'WAF!'  But seriously, thanks for weighing in. I do get a sort of bass 'bloom' at certain frequencies in the two front corners which is where one each of these is (hopefully going,...still gotta pass the 'WAF' you know if you've followed this thread this far already then you know the story!), but I think I'm making headway in that department! I'll post a couple photos tomorrow of each of those corners - which are not really corners all the way up anyway, broken by a sloped ceiling, and wall opening above, so I'm hoping that taming the lows where I will be will be enough(?). |
|
|
|
Post by yves on Jun 23, 2013 21:56:48 GMT -5
Unfortunately, though, some of those bass frequencies that are piling up are (in most rooms, anyway) so low that a medium thickness porous absorber cannot do anything much about them. Lower their frequency, thicker (as well as lower density) porous material will be required to still effectively absorb them. Very thick bass traps are not an option to most people who have only limited room space to sacrifice. However, IIRC, with VPR (Verbund-Platten-Resonator) panels less than 4" thick, lower frequencies will be addressed than with porous absorbers measuring nearly 2 ft thick. Just an FYI for other would-be bass trap makers...... Bass traps are used to absorb excess bass if certain frequencies are "piling up" at standing wave nodes (which will make the room sound boomy at those frequencies which correspond to those nodes). Where the optimum places to put bass traps are located up will depend on your room, and your speaker location; they sort of need to be placed where the peaks (nodes) are located. While the corners may indeed often end up being where the bass traps should go, DO NOT automatically assume that putting bass traps in the corners of your room will be necessary - or will make an improvement. (Room treatments, including bass traps, are NOT an "everybody needs them, and one size fits all" type of system tweak. If you need them, and put them in the right places, they certainly will help. But, if you don't need them, or put them in the wrong places, then they will probably make things worse.) The problem with these types of corner bass traps IMO is they don't absorb very much below 100 Hz if you don't make them preposterously big (like say, more than 3 ft wide at the front side) and use fluffy pink Owens Corning fiberglass or similar low density insulation to fill them up completely. In a small room, Ethan recommends covering all four wall to wall corners and all four wall to ceiling corners with corner bass traps, but I am seriously looking into VPR bass trap panels made with Caruso Iso Bond instead now, as they take up alot less space and they can be made to absorb down to 50 Hz or even lower. |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jun 24, 2013 20:56:32 GMT -5
Okay, as promised a few posts northward - here are two photos of my front left & right speaker positions. The bass traps are each dimensioned: 37" high x 12" side x 12" side x 18" curved front. One in each corner. For holding the fabric in place, I'm toying with the idea of vertical Velcro strips applied to the back corner where the fabric will vertically overlap an inch+ as a means to hold it in place. We'll see. Anyway, here are the two future bass trap locations, as you can see, existing dimensions limit my options - especially at the left location, but they'll fit great:   |
|
flyhigh
Emo VIPs 
North Carolina
Posts: 524
|
Post by flyhigh on Jun 25, 2013 13:54:24 GMT -5
Norseman,
Maybe you could consider some Good Double-Sided adhesive tape to attach the fabric around the periphery of your Traps.
Heat-Bonded "Hem Tape" might work for you. It's attached with a household Iron.
Or...a nice bead of "Alene's Tacky Glue" would do ya. It's a white, craft glue available everywhere for cheap.
NO sags....NO regrets!
Cool Project Norseman!!
Fly
|
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jun 25, 2013 17:58:28 GMT -5
Thanks flyhigh, and I did consider a few different attachment methods, (never thought I'd find myself searching the JoAnn Fabrics website!  ). But now I've settled on sewn on Velcro strips, well, actually more accurately - my daughter (who's doing the sewing) decided that would work best. MY original idea was to use those 'toothed' metal clasps like Ace bandages used to use, until I discovered those aren't sold anymore and they're all the self adhering type now (sigh,...another sign of rapidly encroaching 'fuddy-duddyness'...gotta avoid that fork in the road down toward 'Geezer-ville' at all costs though!  ). Maybe another week or so and I'll have these in place and ready to try them out. I've got a few music selections picked out for 'before and after' experiments - tracks that I known do a number on these corners at certain frequencies, so those will be my tests... |
|
flyhigh
Emo VIPs
North Carolina
Posts: 524
|
Post by flyhigh on Jun 25, 2013 20:07:52 GMT -5
Hey Norseman.... Creepy isn't it? Guys looking at "Fabric" websites, and getting all worked up...debating which is more acoustically transparent: "Taffeta vs Chiffon..." I feel like I need to go shoot some pool, and drink a 6 pack just to "re-establish" myself.  Nice Project Norseman....Looking forward to your finished product! FLy |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jul 21, 2013 10:55:53 GMT -5
Well folks, I FINALLY have finished my bass traps!  The last part (fabric coverings) took a while because my designated seamstress (my older daughter) was working on her 'cosplay' costumes (don't ask...), so my bass traps had to wait in line behind her geek-fest activities  . They are in satin enamel black tops & bottoms, with black burlap acoustically transparent fabric coverings (from ATC Acoustics). I added a medium gray fabric 'tape' strip along the top and bottom to (sort of!) match my speakers that they'll be going next to. (The third photo here shows the Velcro strip connection at the rear corner that won't be seen...). I'll post some "in place" photos and report on the acoustic results later after Mrs. Mad Norseman gives her final 'blessing'... Anyway, they're now done and I'll post two sets of photos here, the first set: Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jul 21, 2013 10:58:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by mshump on Jul 21, 2013 11:26:06 GMT -5
Those look great ! Very nice work ! The gray stripe is a good choice !
|
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jul 21, 2013 14:55:44 GMT -5
Thanks mshump! Now to pass the 'WAF', get them in place, and do my tests... I've got my graphic Audyssey results from the original setup for my front L&Rs, so I'll compare that to the new graphs after re-running Audyssey after the traps are in place and that should show me exactly the specific difference they'll make. In the meantime I'll run my audio tests with certain audio tracks and film scores where I know there were bass issues with before - run before and after 'ear tests' sort of, and hopefully be able to detect obvious improvements! |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 18, 2014 16:34:49 GMT -5
Thought I should finally get around to posting pictures on my finished, and in place DIY bass traps!  Attachment DeletedI sold Mrs. mad Norseman on the idea of them as plant stands (which actually also helps room acoustics in a minor way). I re-ran Audyssey XT32 & Sub EQ after 'deployment' also, and think the sound is a bit tighter in the upper bass with these in place, though admittedly I wasn't able to do a real A-B test. I don't get that same 'boominess' at my front/left like I used to, and the right side sounds about the same (but that's not where the problem was).Now I should get some DIY panels on the walls in back of those big floorstanders! I've got enough rock wool acoustic batts left over to make two, so...  |
|
|
|
Post by yves on Jan 18, 2014 20:45:17 GMT -5
They look very nice IMO. If you are going to build the panel absorbers, perhaps you should allow bass waves to enter them via their sides so that they will also act as bass traps, as shown in the picture below.  |
|
selkec
Emo VIPs
SCREW YOU GUYS, IM GOING HOME!!!
Posts: 3,779
|
Post by selkec on Jan 19, 2014 4:21:25 GMT -5
I skipped right to the end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so why use bass traps............. You bought subs for BASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now you want to remove it?  ? this seems retarted and stupid. and I see it daily so this is not just at the OP................ but think about it. if its too boomy. move it from a corner, or get a sms1............................... I see so many guys spend thousands to get kick ass bass and to only suck it dry with traps................. COME TO MY HOUSE. ILL BOOM YOUR EARS apart. all the talk about flat response and whatnot is stupid. FLAT= crappy sound and I know many that would agree. at least inprvate they do. lol Im going to build the best bass traps ever. I am going to build concrete cases around my subs. lmao anyways Im joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but for the gys looking for tactile feel. you need bug subs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 months ago I had 2 15's now AI have 3 18's diy............. there is nothing to compare. I payed less for the diy and get 4 times the performance ................... irefnpuernfpiuwqernfiuwnerfnwerfunweprnfgpwernfgpwenrg yep that's all folks |
|
|
|
Post by yves on Jan 19, 2014 10:02:03 GMT -5
I skipped right to the end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so why use bass traps............. You bought subs for BASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now you want to remove it? ? this seems retarted and stupid. and I see it daily so this is not just at the OP................ but think about it. if its too boomy. move it from a corner, or get a sms1............................... I see so many guys spend thousands to get kick ass bass and to only suck it dry with traps................. COME TO MY HOUSE. ILL BOOM YOUR EARS apart. all the talk about flat response and whatnot is stupid. FLAT= crappy sound and I know many that would agree. at least inprvate they do. lol Im going to build the best bass traps ever. I am going to build concrete cases around my subs. lmao anyways Im joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but for the gys looking for tactile feel. you need bug subs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 months ago I had 2 15's now AI have 3 18's diy............. there is nothing to compare. I payed less for the diy and get 4 times the performance ................... irefnpuernfpiuwqernfiuwnerfnwerfunweprnfgpwernfgpwenrg yep that's all folks If you want tactile feel you can always just light a stick of dynamite in your room. Of course it will probably make you go deaf and stuff, but hey.. you'll definitely FEEL the boom........ 1!!1!11!!!!1! |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 19, 2014 11:55:09 GMT -5
(sigh). Some people just don't understand the purpose of bass traps - its not to get rid of bass, or to diminish it, but to prevent it from 'bouncing around' long after it should have died away - sot that it doesn't 'muddy' subsequent sounds...absorbing those frequencies at (usually) a corner's trouble spot (typically in the mid-bass region). And thanks for the pointers yves on the 'side entries' for the acoustic panels. I'm sure that would improve their performance, but make construction much harder, though I will indeed consider that if I can get the 'WAF' in line to allow the panels now... |
|
selkec
Emo VIPs
SCREW YOU GUYS, IM GOING HOME!!!
Posts: 3,779
|
Post by selkec on Jan 19, 2014 22:25:02 GMT -5
that was a drunken rant............. damn I was on here, AVS and facebook......
I know what bass traps are for. But A flat response sounds like garbage. Of course I came from the car audio scene so that's probably why I feel the way I do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Jan 19, 2014 22:40:04 GMT -5
that was a drunken rant............. damn I was on here, AVS and facebook...... I know what bass traps are for. But A flat response sounds like garbage. Of course I came from the car audio scene so that's probably why I feel the way I do. In simple terms 'cause I'm a simple guy, "flat response" means that in my listening room it sounds like the sound engineer intended it to sound. So if I was in the recording studio when it was recorded it should sound the same as it does on my system. That's "flat response". If I don't like what it sounds like then I blame the sound engineer, it's not my system's fault. With anything other than "flat" I don't know whether it's the sound engineer's fault or my system's. If I want the bass a bit hotter, because the sound engineer didn't have the same liking for base as I do, then I simply turn up the LFE channel. If the sound engineer had more of a liking for base than as I do, then I simply turn down the LFE channel. Similarly I occasionally adjust the volume of my centre channel because the sound engineer was a bit light on when it came to dialogue volume. Starting from and returning to "flat response" ensures consistency. It's not a matter of whether I like "flat response" or not, it's nothing more than a consistent/constant/reference point to start off from, what happens after that is my choice. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by taylormade1ca on Jan 22, 2014 4:09:45 GMT -5
those look good I made some but a bit bigger.Used roxal safe and sound 3 in by 24 by 48 in they are 2 ft by 2ft and are 33 1/2 in in the front.I use to have bass collecting in the corners and had my 2 little subs cranked and my bass set to +9 on my umc-1 now subs vol is down to half and on my umc 1 set to +3 deb.Not sure how they really work but they sure do I am very happy.I dont have to walk around to hear the bass can hear it very good in my seat now s845.photobucket.com/user/taylormade1cataylormade1ca/media/IMG_1138_zps55805fbe.jpg.html |
|
|
|
Post by neo20013 on Jan 22, 2014 10:16:44 GMT -5
Great Job, Mad Norseman !!!
Unfortunately, the pictures from the earlier stages are missing.
Would you mind to upload them again?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Jan 22, 2014 13:55:57 GMT -5
Great Job, Mad Norseman !!! Unfortunately, the pictures from the earlier stages are missing. Would you mind to upload them again? Thanks!, but the 'missing photos' deal (that's a Proboards 'thing'), but those photos are are still there - its's just that you have to double-click those older post's photos to open them now... |
|
). 
).
. 
