UPA-200 vs XPA-200

[normanu]

Is the XPA really better ?
Looking at the specs and the measurements the THD of the UPA is much lower then the XPA.
Other specs are the same.
Wouldn't it mean the UPA is a better amplifier ?

[brubacca]

This has been asked before and I haven't read a definitive answer. Early on when the XPA-200 came out someone commented that it wouldn't be worth upgrading from upa-200 to XPA-200. Big Dan chimed in and agreed. This tells me that sonically they are very close.

I would say that if you want a feature of the XPA-200 ( balanced in, no fans) then go for it. I read a review that said the 4 ohm performance of the XPA-200 was better because of the extra capacitance, so that may be a reason to move up too.

Personally I have a upa-200 and find it to be the best amplifier I own. I haven't heard the fans come on and it sounds great at a reasonable price.

[brubacca]

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/25915/xpa-200-upa

More insight here

[creimes]

I agree my UPA-200 rocks, especially for $349...!!!!, I'm actually running my mains with it right now and it doesn't fall short in any way.

Chad

[solarrdadd]

i picked up a pair of Vintage Polk Audio System SDA-2 speakers in mint condition. when i say mint, you would swear these things just rolled off the factory line (can't believe my luck) i'm trying to decide whether to get a UPA-200 or XPA-200 amp for them in a standalone 2 channel system. many of the articles i've seen say you should use nothing less than 200wpc in an amp. the speakers are 4 ohm and can go down to 16hz and have a 92db efficiency rating.



i don't necessarily play music loud but sometimes i crank it. i listen to a lot of jazz, classic rock, some r&b, classical music and movie soundtracks too. we all do know that it's not just the volume level that requires power, it's the source material. having said that, these speakers will be full range with no sub (with those ratings, who needs one) this last two sentences are why i'm kinda leaning towards the XPA-200. i want as much headroom as my money can get me for dynamics and with some of the jazz & movie soundtracks i have it will be needed. i'm having to keep my budget to $500 smackers since my kid is going to graduate school and i'm helping her not to mention i'm moving inside of 2 weeks.

when i went to buy them and auditioned them (see the picture above) the amp being used was 200wpc and i brought good source material with me and was completely blown away by what i heard. for those who have experience with this particular classic speaker system know it does just does better with more power. with the XPA-200 able to crank out 240wpc @ 4ohms seems to fit the bill for me in the small open dining room area that this will be set up in.

i'd love for folks to chime in on my choice (or the thoughts of a choice) and why for this speaker system they would rather go UPA-200. i will be watching this thread carefully as i get closer to the 4th of July! i don't think i'll be able to make it to Emofest this year (i did the last two years) but, my daughter and i will probably be going to NY Comi-Con and for me/us, that's more important.  i'd also like to make it clear that i find nothing wrong with the UPA-200 either.  i think it's a great amp, i'm just trying to get the most bang for my speaker system as i can give it with the "drop dead" budget i have.

i would really love for Keith or Big Dan to chime in on this given the special nature of these speakers. oh yeah, everyone, keep one thing in mind, "Blade Runner" soundtrack is going to be released in a couple of months on SACD, imagine, these speakers, (or yours) full range (or using a sub if that's how your setup) playing that; this alone is pushing me to XPA-200!

[brubacca]

Solarrdad,

I think that your situation is the exact one for the XDA-200. If you don't mind b stock call on Monday and see if Emotiva has anymore XDA-200. If memory serves me right they had XPA-200 at a very good price.

[solarrdadd]

Jun 1, 2013 12:12:26 GMT -5 brubacca said:

Solarrdad,

I think that your situation is the exact one for the XDA-200. If you don't mind b stock call on Monday and see if Emotiva has anymore XDA-200. If memory serves me right they had XPA-200 at a very good price.

thanks buddy, i might just do that. does B-stock come with a 5 year warranty? i believe it doesn't come with the 30 day return (that worries me), just not sure about the warranty. I might just wait for the sale as i'm moving and will take a little while to get things setup up. thanks for your input of course!

[normanu]

at 4 ohm it would be very clear case, looking at the sequence reports ...
The XPA is a much better amp in 4 ohm.

While in 8 ohm it is a bit unclear to me ....

[garbulky]

Jun 1, 2013 11:07:53 GMT -5 solarrdadd said:

i picked up a pair of Vintage Polk Audio System SDA-2 speakers in mint condition. when i say mint, you would swear these things just rolled off the factory line (can't believe my luck) i'm trying to decide whether to get a UPA-200 or XPA-200 amp for them in a standalone 2 channel system. many of the articles i've seen say you should use nothing less than 200wpc in an amp. the speakers are 4 ohm and can go down to 16hz and have a 92db efficiency rating.



i don't necessarily play music loud but sometimes i crank it. i listen to a lot of jazz, classic rock, some r&b, classical music and movie soundtracks too. we all do know that it's not just the volume level that requires power, it's the source material. having said that, these speakers will be full range with no sub (with those ratings, who needs one) this last two sentences are why i'm kinda leaning towards the XPA-200. i want as much headroom as my money can get me for dynamics and with some of the jazz & movie soundtracks i have it will be needed. i'm having to keep my budget to $500 smackers since my kid is going to graduate school and i'm helping her not to mention i'm moving inside of 2 weeks.

when i went to buy them and auditioned them (see the picture above) the amp being used was 200wpc and i brought good source material with me and was completely blown away by what i heard. for those who have experience with this particular classic speaker system know it does just does better with more power. with the XPA-200 able to crank out 240wpc @ 4ohms seems to fit the bill for me in the small open dining room area that this will be set up in.

i'd love for folks to chime in on my choice (or the thoughts of a choice) and why for this speaker system they would rather go UPA-200. i will be watching this thread carefully as i get closer to the 4th of July! i don't think i'll be able to make it to Emofest this year (i did the last two years) but, my daughter and i will probably be going to NY Comi-Con and for me/us, that's more important.  i'd also like to make it clear that i find nothing wrong with the UPA-200 either.  i think it's a great amp, i'm just trying to get the most bang for my speaker system as i can give it with the "drop dead" budget i have.

i would really love for Keith or Big Dan to chime in on this given the special nature of these speakers. oh yeah, everyone, keep one thing in mind, "Blade Runner" soundtrack is going to be released in a couple of months on SACD, imagine, these speakers, (or yours) full range (or using a sub if that's how your setup) playing that; this alone is pushing me to XPA-200!

I have the UPA-2 (not upa-200) which is the old XPA-200 more or less. I run it with the axiom m80's which has 12 drivers and is 4 ohms. It does great. Really great. BUT I would rather have an XPA-2 to control those big old woofers on the Polks...

[counterpoint]

I think the XPA-200 specs are about right and probably has a lot more peak performance than the UPA-200 and deserves more credit than its being given but if you just wanted to play the "specs on paper" game to differentiate it from the UPA-200 then I think the XPA-200 should be improved in the following ways:

180 watts / channel; into 8 Ohms; both channels driven
288 watts / channel; into 4 ohms; both channels driven
improved THD at rated power
improved S/N ratio @ 1 watt

But that would narrow the gap between it and the XPA-100 so you would need to improve it accordingly in the following ways to balance it out:

300 watts / channel; into 8 Ohms; both channels driven
480 watts / channel; into 4 ohms; both channels driven
improved THD at rated power
improved S/N ratio @ 1 watt


I dunno, I'm high on sugar and caffeine right now. I just drank 2 cans of pepsi.

[solarrdadd]

Jun 1, 2013 17:59:41 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Jun 1, 2013 11:07:53 GMT -5 solarrdadd said:

i picked up a pair of Vintage Polk Audio System SDA-2 speakers in mint condition. when i say mint, you would swear these things just rolled off the factory line (can't believe my luck) i'm trying to decide whether to get a UPA-200 or XPA-200 amp for them in a standalone 2 channel system. many of the articles i've seen say you should use nothing less than 200wpc in an amp. the speakers are 4 ohm and can go down to 16hz and have a 92db efficiency rating.



i don't necessarily play music loud but sometimes i crank it. i listen to a lot of jazz, classic rock, some r&b, classical music and movie soundtracks too. we all do know that it's not just the volume level that requires power, it's the source material. having said that, these speakers will be full range with no sub (with those ratings, who needs one) this last two sentences are why i'm kinda leaning towards the XPA-200. i want as much headroom as my money can get me for dynamics and with some of the jazz & movie soundtracks i have it will be needed. i'm having to keep my budget to $500 smackers since my kid is going to graduate school and i'm helping her not to mention i'm moving inside of 2 weeks.

when i went to buy them and auditioned them (see the picture above) the amp being used was 200wpc and i brought good source material with me and was completely blown away by what i heard. for those who have experience with this particular classic speaker system know it does just does better with more power. with the XPA-200 able to crank out 240wpc @ 4ohms seems to fit the bill for me in the small open dining room area that this will be set up in.

i'd love for folks to chime in on my choice (or the thoughts of a choice) and why for this speaker system they would rather go UPA-200. i will be watching this thread carefully as i get closer to the 4th of July! i don't think i'll be able to make it to Emofest this year (i did the last two years) but, my daughter and i will probably be going to NY Comi-Con and for me/us, that's more important.  i'd also like to make it clear that i find nothing wrong with the UPA-200 either.  i think it's a great amp, i'm just trying to get the most bang for my speaker system as i can give it with the "drop dead" budget i have.

i would really love for Keith or Big Dan to chime in on this given the special nature of these speakers. oh yeah, everyone, keep one thing in mind, "Blade Runner" soundtrack is going to be released in a couple of months on SACD, imagine, these speakers, (or yours) full range (or using a sub if that's how your setup) playing that; this alone is pushing me to XPA-200!

I have the UPA-2 (not upa-200) which is the old XPA-200 more or less. I run it with the axiom m80's which has 12 drivers and is 4 ohms. It does great. Really great. BUT I would rather have an XPA-2 to control those big old woofers on the Polks...

those are 12" radiators on those SDA-2's. i too have a pair of Axiom 80v3's as well as a VP180v3 and a pair of QS8v3's but they are all running off of an XPA-5. I do have a UPA-2 driving another pair of QS8v3's to give me 7 channels. emotiva drives my axioms no problem. i also have a budget to stay in and i'm not going any higher. i also have a space limitation so the XPA-200 really fits the bill.

[garbulky]

Go for it. It's a great amp and the capacitance should help.

[solarrdadd]

Jun 1, 2013 20:46:02 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Go for it. It's a great amp and the capacitance should help.

thanks for your input bulky

[audiosanity]

Jun 1, 2013 6:16:56 GMT -5 normanu said:

Is the XPA really better ?
Looking at the specs and the measurements the THD of the UPA is much lower then the XPA.
Other specs are the same.
Wouldn't it mean the UPA is a better amplifier ?

Maybe you looked at the THD for max power rating, for which they use 1% with the XPA-200, probably to push the power rating from about 140wpc to a slightly inflated 150wpc. If you just look at the THD+nosie figure they list, it is 0.02% for the XPA-200 vs 0.03% for the UPA-200, probably a completely insignificant difference. The transformers are also nearly the same, with 350VA for the UPA versus 360VA for the XPA. A much bigger difference is the storage capacitancE: 90,000 uF for the XPA versus 40,000 uF for the UPA. This should give the XPA more dynamic headroom. The better heatsinking should also help.

[arthurz]

Sorry about a copy/paste from a spreadsheet. This data (read from Emotiva charts) shows the XPA-200 exhibits generally lower distortion than the UPA-200. Based on these numbers, I definitely wouldn't consider the two to have different max. power figures.

THD+N,UPA-200 / 4Ω,XPA-200 / 4Ω,XPA-2 / 4Ω
0.0002,1.2%,0.75%,0.5%
0.0005,0.9%,0.52%,0.35%
0.001,0.7%,0.4%,0.26%
0.005,0.28%,0.18%,0.16%
0.01,0.24%,0.13%,0.12%
0.05,0.11%,0.055%,0.08%
0.1,0.085%,0.046%,0.07%
0.5,0.053%,0.025%,0.045%
1,0.048%,0.024%,0.04%
5,0.038%,0.017%,0.03%
10,0.035%,0.016%,0.029%
50,0.035%,0.025%,0.03%
100,0.038%,0.04%,0.032%

[creimes]

Hey Solarrdadd there were a pair of UPA-1's here for sale from a fellow lounger for if I remember correctly $250 each including paypal and shipping in the Cont 48, I'll see if I can find the ad for ya and update this post if I do..they would be sweet for those polk's for a insane price

Found it Here

Man what a great deal...



Chad

[dac0964]

solarrdadd

I listen to same type of music as you do and also have 4ohm speakers with 90dB efficiency.  My UPA-200 have no problem driving my speakers even at high levels (although I don't listen to ear piercing level). There is no strain and in fact make my speakers, to use the cliche, open up and sing. At low levels it is still pleasurable because details are still very coherent.

I think it was I who posted the same question here before wherein Big Dan chimed in.  Although I was very happy with the UPA, I wondered if upgrading to the XPA-200 would elevate further ny listening pleasure. Big Dan said not to bother and implied that I have a very good amp in my system. I was pleasantly surprise by this cause he could have made money off of me by selling a new amp.  Says something about the guy's integrity and honesty.  So I believed him and kept the UPA and still enjoying it. (I want to mention however that I'm still contemplating an upgrade in the future but it will be a big jump to either the XPR-2 or a pair of XPA-1L).

So save yourself some money and try the UPA-200. Anyway you have 30 days to return if you're not satisfied.

[Deleted]

Normanu, you will hear *no* difference between the UPA-200 and the XPA-200. The difference in the THD spec. is meaningless - once you get below 0.5% or so it is inaudible. And the difference in wattage is also meaningless, it amounts to less than 0.5 db, also quite inaudible.

The PMC speakers you have are terrific speakers - that SEAS tweeter is among the best in the world. The transmission line loaded woofer is a thing of beauty, I imagine that they go down to an honest 30Hz or so. And, never fear, your XPA-5 amp has more than enough grunt to drive them to *very* high sound pressure levels (SPLs). Face it, you already have put together a *very* good system!

If you simply *must* spend more money, the one thing you might want to consider changing would be your rear speakers, perhaps a set of Twenty.21s to replace the Missions. This would give you better "voicing" between the speakers and will provide you with a more cohesive soundfield. This means that the transition from front to back would be more seamless. And do not underestimate how important this "feature" is, it really will improve the overall sound of your system.

Sooooo, if you are contemplating changing anything in that system, I strongly recommend getting some PMC speakers for your rear channels. Then, sit back and enjoy that kick-ass system!!!

-RW-

[Wobbles]

Those are a nice set of dq 10's in the back round.I have a usp-1 and soon a upa-200 to run my dq 10's.If the Emo upa-200 runs the dq 10's it will run your Polks. Nice pick up on those.

[south43]

Greetings All

Just joined the site not long ago and I'm happy I did. I just picked up a UPA 200 the other day after blowing up my Linn LK140(don't ask)and I can say bravo to the Emo staff for putting together a very nice piece of kit. What I'm most impressed with is the standby function. I like to have my amp fired up all the time and with the power button going to a standby mode makes it a no brainer. I'll be receiving a vintage Acurus A150 shortly and it will be interesting to compare the ins and outs.

Good listening!

South43